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I have a lot to say due to my experiences and i'm sure some other women have to!
Edit: If this circle was to be made, i feel like it would only be fair for a place for mothers too. It wouldn't be about bashing mothers and turning into the misogynist version ''r/chilldfree'' on reddit. It would be a place of sharing experiences and thoughtful discussion on why society forces women to be parents when some don't want to be.
It would be great if you could have this circle and if us who are parents could have a parenting circle too.
A parenting circle has already been requested, so that's the right place to boost the idea:
I'd like to see this too, as long as it stayed civil and didn't devolve into the name calling and insulting, or the purity spirals of what "childfree" truly is, that I've seen on other childfree forums.
That’s my only concern with this….every other place I’ve seen that’s been “child free” has basically devolved into “moms are shitty and selfish”, which is why I think some others are a little wary about it…
I don't want to be preachy ... and I personally don't believe in namecalling and trash-talking other people who made decisions on how to live their lifes, just because it's not what I want to do with my life. I'd just like to say that I am actually a member of the childfree-sub on reddit, and I feel like a lot of the negative conversations that happen there, come from a place of "peaking". (to compare the childfree situation to the gender critical one) You go on about your life but at some point you've had enough of for example "no, you can't have christmas off, because parents deserve that day more than you do". - I get that people don't want to hear it, but society treats childfree people, and esp. childfree women, very often as "lesser", and it sucks.
Oh, I see, the downvoters are very active here. You are pathetic, if you think you can chastise women for not wanting to have children! PATHETIC!
Unsurprising... I have never been a reddit user but I sincerely doubt a group of women talking about their lives and experiences with a choice that defies patriarchy was so ""toxic"" as I see claimed so often. You'd think a women's space would have a bit more comprehension of the societal pressures on women to submit to this undertaking and why we get extremely sick of it.
To be fair and honest - there are a lot of men on the childfree reddit sub. (I've also seen trans people there, fishing for validation .. ugh!) Parents do get called breeders, and there are terms for children that I'd rather not repeat, so it's not all daisies and roses. But given the subject of conversation, I'm not mad when discussions get heated. I've read your other comment, and for me you really nailed it. If mothers are so happy with their life, why are they so mad the second childfree women talk about their lifes? I've seen other users here argue that even calling ourselves "childfree" is fundamentaly wrong.
I really don't get it. I don't want children and I get shit for it all the time. Why am I not allowed to be annoyed about that? And talk about being annoyed? Why are only mothers allowed to talk about their struggles? Instead I have to listen to constant arguments that I'll regret not having children, when I'm old and dried up(!!!) and becoming a mother is the true meaning of life for every woman. - I'm happy for everyone who feels that way. Enjoy your life and let me enjoy mine. Why is it impossible for mothers and childfree women to co-exist?
(I've also seen trans people there, fishing for validation .. ugh!)
There are a lot of TIFs there, I've noticed, which is not a criticism but more of a sad observation. I have no doubt that a major contributing factor to their dysphoria is the cultural message that women have to be mothers, otherwise they aren't complete women but an underclass within the female subhuman underclass.
Spot on!!!
So often when TIFs or non-binary women go on about their reasons why they are indeed not women at all, the issue of not wanting children is coming up. I've read "I don't want to be a mother" in arguments for why they think they are not women, and I wonder why people here don't see it. The constant pressure that women have to be nurturing and loving mothers, and that they have to realise that this is the most important task in our lives, is pushing people into the gender-special direction as well.
I remember my godmother talking to me once, when I was still a teenager, and telling me that "all of us women become mothers", and even at age 14 I was thinking "no, wait a minute!!!! I don't want to have children! Ever!!". Sure, maybe I would have changed my mind, but I didn't, because I do not have a motherly bone in my body. I do not want to have children. But society tells me that's wrong. So, am I a man trapped in a womens body??? Would I be easy to influence, I might would have gone down that path!
Similar story that happened to my sister (who is also childfree!): she often tells the tale that as a child she had a total mental break-down of crying and screaming, because our mother was reading some sort of sex educational book with her, that showed a photo of a women in labour. My sister asked her "the women looks in pain, why?" and my mother (being the no-nonsense woman that she is) told her "because birthing a child is painful". So my sister started screaming and crying, because she was under the impression that no girl can ever grow up without birthing children. And I think she too knew that she probably didn't want any.
This definitely influenced my severe dysphoria growing up as well. The idea that we all have to grow up to go through that (and slap a man's name on our creation just to add insult to severe bodily injury) is horrifying to a lot of girls. I still find it horrifying to contemplate even though we have technology so us lesbians don't have to interact with a man for it...
I also think it's very telling how hidden a lot of the serious dangers and complications involved are from young women. They do not want us to give informed consent (they meaning men, medical industry, and religious handmaidens, if I can use that term in a narrow meaning here). They want us railroaded blindly into it.
Well that's fair, men are disgusting about everything.
Also you're right, mothers say that type of misogynistic stuff to us all the time but if we mention it we're the misogynists somehow.
Literally not possible due to the nature of the beast. It's a highly criticized "choice" (because in reality it's non action) that carries a ton of emotional baggage, trauma, and hurt feelings. It will inevitably devolve into anger towards mothers and children like 100% of all childfree spaces ultimately do.
I think it would be great. I am so extremely tired of the straights and mothers acting like we are the bad guys if we talk about the constant pressure THEY put on us from DAY ONE to birth and raise children. In fact when a woman with children IRL criticizes my choice not to do this (which yes still happens rather frequently even if they know I am a lesbian) I often tell her I've already been there and done that as the eldest daughter. You're forced to take care of half a dozen children daily when you are just a child yourself and then expected to turn around and have more as soon as you can! and these women get defensive if you come out of that thinking yeah, no I would like to live my own life.
Literally that type of mothers can just mute the proposed circle if it is so damn offensive and threatening to their worldview for childfree women to talk about our experiences together. And there's been a lot of request for a mothers' circle -- I'm sure once the mods decide to start making new circles again mothers can get one easily as there are so many of them. I'd happily upvote their request so they could get a circle and yet they have such a need to pile onto this request to demonize childfree women.
I always find the accusation that childfree women have no personality aside from it hilarious -- is the focus on her own goals, dreams, hobbies and interests the part where she doesn't have a personality, or are you just looking for a less blatant way to call her selfish and immature? Lmao.
What's the point? How much discussion can it really have? Seriously, think about this for a minute. Is there enough content to warrant an entirely new space? Why can't a thread be posted in another circle from time to time?
"I'm childfree and I love it."
"Me too. What now?"
"Uhhh, I don't want to have children."
"Yeah we already covered that. What else should we talk about?"
"Kids suck."
"This isn't a child bashing circle! Stick to the topic!"
"Ok. Um. I don't want to have children."
"Me neither. What else should we talk about?"
And just repeat ad nauseum. Because circles require new fresh content daily, and I just don't think there's enough to actually warrant a separate space.
(I'm not going to be having children, for the record. I'm not vehemently opposed to the idea of this circle but it honestly just doesn't make sense to have hundreds of specialized circles with very little daily content)
Edit: plus how are you going to prevent the inevitable slide into woman and children bashing that literally 100% of all childfree spaces turn into?
I'm phrasing this badly, but... There seems to be a difference between simply not having children and wanting to identify into a "childfree" lifestyle. A CF person seems to make it the center of their personality and to maintain that personality it requires a certain amount of hostility to the "status quo" of mothers, which typically manifests as just very thinly veiled hatred for mothers and children.
I think discussions about opting out of motherhood are very necessary and would positively contribute to Ovarit.
I think a specific Childfree circle made to discuss and promote Childfree culture/identities would be a negative contribution to Ovarit. I think the hostility would be difficult to control and I think the members would feel stifled and silenced for not being allowed to vent the way they want. I think all parties involved would ultimately be unhappy because it wouldn't be enough of whatever they think it should be.
I'd like this too. Not looking for somewhere to bash parents and children. (Although a bit of frustration at this world where motherhood is the default is understandable).
I just want to be able to talk to women with similar experiences of being childfree.