188 comments

memyselfandi31yrsDecember 25, 2024(Edited December 25, 2024)

I'm am against religions which promote birthing babies and staying at home with the kids as the ideal mold and role for women. The abrahamic religions seem to me the most misogynist of the world religions. That verse in the Bible where it says that Eve was taken from a man's rib, and that she's to be a help-meet for Adam. The fall from the garden of eden was because of eve, and God punished her with pain during labor as a result, etc.

I think my feminist awakening was the moment I realized that religion was and is a lie. This was when I was 10 years old. I've had feminist sensibilities since my earliest years. i didn't understand why girls liked dresses and dolls growing up. I think in my mind, I stuck out like a sore thumb among my peers. But I am glad for it. Because I never felt the social or peer pressure to fit in, and just blossomed and grew into my own and became grounded in my authentic self. For me, it was very easy to become and be a feminist. When you realize patriarchy is unnatural and doesn't make sense, and that it is designed to limit womens power in this world; this was truly the beginning of my awakening. Patriarchal religions cater to men's wants and desire for power. Once i realized religion is made up, I concluded also that patriarchy which stems from religion is a lie as well. They've conned women through religion to support patriarchy.

StrawberryCoughDecember 23, 2024

Being "reborn in jesus" always seemed especially misogynist to me. As if a person's real birth, from their mother, was secondary to the special imaginary birth via an imaginary father-god. The ultimate Patriarchal Reversal.

NotgonnastopDecember 24, 2024

One of my favorite bumper stickers on a car I had in the 80's was "Instead Of Being Born Again Why Not Just Grow Up?".

StrawberryCoughDecember 24, 2024

That's fantastic! Love it!

TheChaliceIsMightierJK 4evaDecember 23, 2024

Mother birth is sinful and unclean. Father birth is holy.

StrawberryCoughDecember 23, 2024

puke emoji forever

sealwomynDecember 23, 2024

Exactly, this is so deeply misogynistic and another clear case of male womb envy.

DorothySayersDecember 24, 2024

This is twisted theology. The bible never says that Jesus birthed a child, never said that God birthed a child. I’m really not sure where you are concocting this from. There are many other ways to point out that this religion is patriarchal and oppressive etc but this is not one of them.

samsdatDecember 24, 2024

Have you not heard of “Born Again” Christianity?

Here’s the Wikipedia article:

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Born_again

Here are biblical sources/quotations:

https://scripturesavvy.com/born-again-christians/

And another explanation from a Christian source:

https://www.christianity.com/wiki/salvation/what-is-a-born-again-christian.html

[Deleted]December 24, 2024

Is she not referring to being reborn from baptism in Jesus's name?

Hedge_WitcherooDecember 24, 2024

You've never heard the reborn in Jesus thing? People being "reborn" with the waters of baptism, reborn through the holy Spirit, born again Christians, etc etc.

Heck, there's even been a (historically incorrect) push that 'blood is thicker than water' actually means 'the blood of the covenant is thicker than the water of the womb.'

[Deleted]December 24, 2024(Edited December 24, 2024)

I thought the blood expression means someone will always side with their family even if they are wrong because they share ‘blood’ in the pre genetic understanding sense.

I do agree there is a lot of focus on the ‘reborn’ in the father and birth confers original sin and childbirth is Eve’s punishment and the whole weird relationship with Mary.

Hedge_WitcherooDecember 25, 2024

Yes, so the actual meaning tired back to written works about how the bond of family/kinship is stronger than the water of baptism/the church, so they'll always pick family over the church

But a lot of Christians are claiming now that the real original saying Israel "the blood of the covenant is thicker than the water of the womb," meaning the bond to jesus/your rebirth as a christian is stronger than the ties of your actual mother/kin. But there's no actual historical source for this. It's just another thing Christians co-opted

StrawberryCoughDecember 24, 2024

What does "born again" mean? It's a pretty persistent theme in US evangelical christianity.

Unicornkindrad.orgDecember 23, 2024

God is nothing without women. From the women who gave birth to the men who wrote these centuries old misogynistic fairytales, to the woman characters in said misogynistic fairytales who made the tales possible, to the women in the present day who keep churches going through volunteering and selfless sacrifice. The Abrahamic religions were created to control vastly growing populations by subjugating women, insisting on female inferiority, and entrenching patriarchal systems in spiritual practices.

For religions to insist a man created all of humanity is the greatest insult to womankind, and thus humankind. Pathetic ancient sad male copium.

Women are everything, God is nothing.

TotoroDecember 24, 2024

One of the best comments I've ever read. Every word is spot on, especially your pointing out that despite all the higher-ups being men (including the deity!) it's actually the ignored, nameless women in the background making the churches and religion itself run. Growing up, it was unnoticeable to me as it is to the women themselves, but looking back it was always women and their daughters who were making and buying the food, doing daycare disguised as telling Bible stories to other people's kids, cleaning the whole building, setting up the tables and chairs (at least some men helped stack the chairs after service, but who actually put them away? women)... it's all women and girls. And just like the musicians do, after playing a song they practiced together using musical instruments they learned how to play, all the real-world accomplishments of these women and girls get absorbed into the ether of praising a man in the sky no one can prove is there for graciously allowing them to exist for the purpose of dedicating their lives to him.

It's always depressed me seeing this (well, more like "frustrated and confused me" when I was a kid, like "yeah sure praise God and all but you guys spend weeks practicing these songs, you deserve at least a little credit!" lol) and even more so now that I realize how inescapable it is for men to exploit women's kindness, even in religions claiming to teach men kindness and humility.

CompassionateGoddess [OP]December 23, 2024

Completely true! I wonder how we can help more women deconstruct and free themselves from these religions? It is a very difficult thing, especially since these religions are in most parts of these women’s lives. In a lot of cases, these women would have to leave their communities and support groups behind. And then to learn that god isn’t real and that your whole world view isn’t aligned with reality. That has got to be a LOT.

hermiona52December 23, 2024

One of the best tricks is to encourage believer to actually read the Bible. All of it, from the first page, to the last. It's really difficult not to feel serious doubt after reading all the horrible things that the supposed "merciful" God cause. And the treatment of women is just plain awful. From there they are primed for other content that might push them to leave religion.

LunarWolfDecember 24, 2024

Meanwhile so often in the Bible you get this little snapshots of the peoples steadfast devotion to the great mother goddess in the face of intense persecution. The women ‘baked sweet cakes to the queen of heaven’ and burned incense to her. Isaac’s wives hiding the terphim (goddess statues) etc. it’s just that it’s all written from the perspective of the priest class who was trying to take over and destroy the organic and much older religion of the goddess that came before.

IshahchaiDecember 24, 2024

The Goddess is everywhere in Judaism if you know where to look. Men tried to erase Asherah, but She persisted. Her symbols, trees and water, have endured as etz chaim (the tree of life) and Tu BiShvat (the new year of the trees), and rituals involving living water such as the mikveh and tashlich. The historical practices of Jewish women are much more interesting than the dominant male narrative. We never really stopped baking cakes for the Queen of Heaven - She’s in every slice of challah. I make no apologies for the patriarchal practices of Judaism, but that’s not the Judaism of my foremothers and myself, so I don’t see being a practicing Jewish woman and a radfem as mutually exclusive.

drdeeisbackDecember 24, 2024

This is brilliant - thanks for sharing. I'm a Jew but have only recently started seriously exploring Jewish tradition and religious practice (made my first challah a couple of weeks ago, with a group of women - it was heavy as a brick but actually pretty good).

CompassionateGoddess [OP]December 25, 2024

I explored Reform Judaism for a little while before I decided it wasn’t for me. But what you describe of the Goddess still being in the faith if you knew where to look is what initially drew me to Judaism. I was looking for Her, and I found that she was there! She is everywhere there is women if you pay attention.

LunarWolfDecember 24, 2024

I love this!

RappaccinisDaughterDecember 24, 2024

If you're interested in this, I recommend the movie Seder Masochism by Nina Paley. It's free on YouTube. A lot of interesting stuff about the conflict between the mother goddess and the patriarchal abrahamic god.

FeminaDecember 24, 2024(Edited December 24, 2024)

Issac? He only had one wife Rebecca... Did you mean Jacob? One of his wives did indeed have a statue of a deity... Rachel...

LunarWolfDecember 24, 2024

Gosh. Yes. I’ve been long enough away from that religion to confuse the patriarchs. Yes, I mean Jacob. With his 4 wives.

zuubatDecember 25, 2024

I grew up as a nominal Christian, although TBH I doubt that either of my parents actually believed. Consequently, I never read more than five or 10 words of the Bible.

A lovely old Bible came my way through the inheritance of a grandmother, and so I decided, what the heck, I’m gonna read it.

I couldn’t get through more than 15 or 20 pages. It was so much more misogynistic and bloodlustful than I had realized.

LapisLazuliDecember 23, 2024

I tried. I got to the rape of Tamar and had to quit...

faerieclaireDecember 24, 2024

Yep, I was raised Catholic and was already questioning/drifting away from the church, before for-real reading part of the Bible at 18 - and oh boy did that push me even farther away, real quick!

TheChaliceIsMightierJK 4evaDecember 23, 2024

Agreed. Actually diving deep into the theology was the final straw for me.

TotoroDecember 24, 2024

It truly is difficult if not impossible to get religious people to see all the flaws in their beliefs and communities, much in the same way it's an uphill battle to peak people even if they already secretly disagree with much of trans ideology. It seems to be a baked-in human feature to seek an in-group and, once you're part of it, cling to it like the cloth mother it is.

As with peaking, I think it really depends on the person, to find the thing that's most important to them, namely: what specific things do they enjoy while being part of the community? Even if there's severe cognitive dissonance with the beliefs being illogical or even harmful, even if they can't really explain why the decided to start believing them, if believing these things gave them a group of friends (""friends"") and other perceived improvements to their lives, good or not (free daycare, a routine, consistent outings with ""friends"", a place and/or mental state to retreat to when you're too tired to think for yourself) you have to battle all of that before they're willing to give up the beliefs that gifted them those things.

Even though I was an asshole kid who questioned the weird things in the Bible aloud, I still distinctly remember that I was relieved when I found out the members of band I liked were Christians because that told me they were good people. Same way TRAs pester every celebrity and influencer and Youtuber and friend to make sure they say TWAW: knowing you aren't alone in believing this, it isn't wrong to believe it, and reinforcing the feedback loop of "only good people believe this so I hope everyone does" is a powerful drug. Not to mention the fact that religion outright tells you that you'll suffer for eternity if you don't believe, as well as the fact that they indoctrinate most of their members as children (which is the main reason I think why TRAs target kids so much a la drag queen story time, and messaging children's books and shows: if you can mold an impressionable child into believing in it before they can decide whether they should, you've probably got a lifelong supporter there.)

Now of course many of the things cult-y communities bring are not worth having to begin with, and the rest are possible to have without the cult. But because these benefits and ""benefits"" were introduced alongside the cult, to its members these things onl exist inside the cult. Maybe the fact that becoming a nonbeliever would make those nice things dissolve before their eyes should be enough of a red flag to get them out of it. But if you grew up your whole life believing this is the true way to be a good person, all the reasons why it's wrong or harmful become anecdotes caused by bad actors in the face of the concept of it being pure good in their minds. I don't know if we know enough about how the human mind works yet to find a consistent way to deprogram people.

The closest way we know so far is to generally be kind (not supportive, but kind) to them, ask them seemingly neutral, honest questions, and especially find and/or allow them to point out any issues they have with the cult, no matter how small. (My friend is uncomfortable with the idea that there's someone watching her at all times, knows what she thinks, and judges her for her thoughts and actions. I ask her "if a loving god reads your thoughts about hating being monitored, and he knows it upsets you, why does he keep doing it?" and she doesn't have an answer: she didn't shut me down though, she was just thinking.) Cognitive dissonance, and having them recognize that it exists in them, is the key.

kuzcos_poisonDecember 24, 2024

It is a lot! Another user shared a really good YouTube channel that discusses this exact scenario in a lot of detail. https://youtube.com/@nononsensespirituality?si=I34GMG3AWCLjGbZb

She goes into detail in several videos about what religion gives to people, and therefore what's taken away when you lose faith. She describes her own journey through nihilism and how she emerged the other side, atheist and connection to reality intact.

RusticTroglodyteVisible titsDecember 24, 2024

Thanks, I'm gonna check this channel out!

TheChaliceIsMightierJK 4evaDecember 23, 2024

It is a lot. I had to go on SSRIs for a time to cope.

CompassionateGoddess [OP]December 23, 2024

I’m so sorry you had to experience that. I have a lot of sympathy for women who go through that. I personally never went through it because my parents weren’t religious and never took us to church. Christmas and Easter for my sister and I were secular and had barely any religious parts to it.

TheChaliceIsMightierJK 4evaDecember 23, 2024

Luckily (unluckily) for me, the religion I grew up in permeated every aspect of my life and wasn't a special occasions or even a "just on Sundays" kind of thing... So. It was traumatic 😂

dust_cloud86December 24, 2024

They created vastly growing populations for male power.

LillithDecember 23, 2024

Can I get a "Amen?"

dust_cloud86December 24, 2024

Women didn't create humanity, they were exploited.

proudcatladymad because angryDecember 24, 2024

Two things can be true at once

dust_cloud86December 24, 2024(Edited December 24, 2024)

Do you know what pregnancy is? Feeling sick for months, being in pain, losing the ability to bend over, having your life and health at risk and going through the worst pain physically possible aren't creating something. This is just skipping over women's suffering and pretending it's an achievement.

Luna_LovegoodDecember 24, 2024

I agree tbh. The problem with a lot of women-create-life rhetoric is that it implies that men have no contribution to reproduction. Obviously it’s not much, but you still need semen. And that semen could be the reason you die of sepsis nine months later. And you can be impregnated totally against your will.

LillithDecember 24, 2024

I think men should be credited for contributing some of the materials, but women do all of the building.

They should have no votes on abortion rights. They can decide not to impregnate.

dust_cloud86December 24, 2024(Edited December 24, 2024)

My issue is that a woman has no say in how pregnancy actually works (mainly with how it affects her)

A woman has no say in how many resources are taken from her body, the placenta takes resources and she may end up with deficiencies and the resulting health issues. A woman doesn't choose to contract her uterine muscles, she goes into labor and experiences extreme pain because of it. If a fetus doesn't develop a brain, it's not because the mother didn't choose to put one there. And if a woman dies, she didn't "create a blood loss device."

tabbycatcircusDecember 24, 2024

It's an achievement to choose to go through all of that anyway for the sake of nurturing new life.

dust_cloud86December 24, 2024(Edited December 24, 2024)

But why? How does "new life" make a woman suffering go from something horrible to a good thing?

If you had to choose between dying and making women suffer for months and then putting her through the worst pain physically possible, would you do it? Could you choosing to make her suffer for yourself be a good thing?

If saving your life isn't worth harming a woman, then how is the life of someone who doesn't exist (and therefore can't care about living, or have loved ones who are depending on them) existing in the future worth woman suffering?

TheChaliceIsMightierJK 4evaDecember 23, 2024

The gateway to the world Was still outside the reach of him Would never belong to angels Had never belonged to men

SpottiniDecember 23, 2024

Just remember that Abraham gave his wife Sarah to other men twice and accepted rewards for it; he trafficked his wife. This of course was to save his life, so it was justified, and it was just so clever of him to pass Sarah off as his sister. <sarcasm>

LunarWolfDecember 23, 2024(Edited December 23, 2024)

Never realized this! It’s amazing what gets glossed over or normalized in Sunday school.

kuzcos_poisonDecember 24, 2024

And I've had users here tell me it's the "be kind" religion. Sure.