3
Dunno if Ovarit simmers here saw it but there is a mod to create and edit worlds... : https://www.patreon.com/posts/create-world-faq-56556779
Also worth checking out : https://amazsims.fr/en/world-edit/
For context, this influencer used to work in a business casual setting in Toronto. This is what would have passed the dresscode rules and fell under business casual. Not too loud. Not too bold. Not too tight. Not too oversized. Not too showy (skin).
The commenter is saying this doesn’t suit young ladies. “Old lady work outfit” is code for “not sexy.” Considering the sexualized fashions being peddled to the teens, it’s a real concern that they are entering the workforce without any grasp of what professionalism looks like.
Edit: I do remember the local controversies we’ve had a decade ago when young women would copy Hollywood’s idea of what business “appropriate” would look like. One woman wore a skin tight black pencil mini skirt (you could see the horizontal drag wrinkles too). She was surprised to be fired. The libfems argued it was entirely appropriate that her skirt was skin tight because otherwise it would be discrimination on her body shape. 💀 (Or something like that. I definitely remember the defense using the words “body shape” and “discrimination.”)
While I don't go on reddit much anymore, I did find the ffacj (female fashion advice circle jerk) subreddit amusing since they made fun of this kind of stuff. Like anything that doesn't show your whole entire ass and boobs is old lady clothing now according to teeny boppers. And apparently you're basically the crypt keeper as soon as you pass 25 lol.
And apparently you're basically the crypt keeper as soon as you pass 25 lol.
Skincare Addiction (SCA) Circlejerk was also silly with this.
I love that subreddit so much haha. One post they made fun of was exactly this - a young woman was wearing a super short mini skirt with no hosiery and a sleeveless vest to the office and wondering if it was professional enough. So odd to me and I’m not one to always dress conservatively outside of professional settings lol
This is one of my favorite recent posts https://reddit.com/r/ffacj/s/Zd9SFcAEMm
The sarcasm on that subreddit is just perfect haha
I lost three hours in that sub thanks to your comment. Crazy how someone just dropping a link like that can affect my evening so significantly!
Exactly! And it's like they see no difference between what is appropriate for an evening at the nightclub, a day at the office, and a Saturday afternoon volunteering at the charity dog wash.
I reiterate, as per my mother, "To be well-dressed is to be suitability dressed."
You know what really baffles me? It’s not like they exist in a separate bubble from the rest of generations. I live in a capital city and I take public transportation. I am blessed with the joys (sarcasm) of waiting many minutes at bus stations (last time was 50 minutes as 3 buses failed to show up—not a fault of public transportation, just my city councillors are incompetent nincompoops), so I get to people watch as my only form of entertainment because I’m still watching for the bus.
I get to see women of all ages. The teens and early 20s are wearing crop tops (whatever, their prerogative), but everyone older is dressed in either casual wear, a scrubs uniform, or business wear, but they’re fairly covered up.
Looking at all these groups, it’s the cropped top young ones that stand out as different. You would think they’d look at what the other age groups are wearing and just file that information away for later as this is what “suitably” dressed is when they’ll be dressing to someone else’s expectations.
I’m seeing the most bizarre daytime fashion trends online coming from their generation. A suit (open blazer + trousers) over a cropped tube top as a day time outfit. Sometimes just a bra and no top under the blazer. I’d expect such ridiculous outfits from pop singers, not the average citizen.
Why mix business and casual? It’s not like you can walk right into your bank or doctor’s appointment with this outfit. On the other hand, the suit is ruining the casual vibe of the cropped tube top. It looks like they woke up that morning and couldn’t figure out where they wanted to go, so they picked garments that would fit into different locations.
It’s not like they exist in a separate bubble from the rest of generations.
They kind of are though. The newer generations are more and more dissociated from the real world, sucked in with an endless stream of information overload from digital media. Their experience with the world is very different from any other generation. Every year more people say “I was raised online” or “The internet raised me”. Growing numbers are raised in an online bubble of various different, unnatural echo chambers. Even though they still exist in and interact with the real world, it’s not the dominant source of influence.
It’s a new world.
Even though they still exist in and interact with the real world, it’s not the dominant source of influence.
Then I fear what would become of Gen alpha.
It’s a new world.
And we’ve got front row seats.
To be fair I had a friend who worked in a field that has very conservative suit and tie requirements. If she wore something smart but loose that was "too sloppy", casual, not professional. If she wore a tailored blouse/jacket and slim knee length skirt it was "too sexy" because she's a curvaceous woman with boobs and a butt.
You cannot win with larger boobs. You either get judged as "slutty" or as "matronly". And sometimes both.
Meanwhile you suffer discomfort, expense, difficulty in buying clothes. Certain kinds of exercise (and even sleeping positions) are impeded. Back/neck/shoulder issues.
And yet breast augmentation remains the most popular form of plastic surgery.
You cannot win with larger boobs. You either get judged as "slutty" or as "matronly". And sometimes both.
True. If I want to wear a buttoned blouse and look "appropriate", I can really only wear one with a concealed button panel. Because I always have a gap in the middle of my boobs. It's extremely annoying.
Mostly I changed to tops without buttons that still work with "business casual".
They have Velcro inserts you can buy to fix those button gaps! Game changer and cheap on Amazon
VELCRO Brand Sticky Back for Fabrics, 10 Ft Bulk Roll No Sew Tape with Adhesive, Cut Strips to Length Permanent Bond to Clothing for Hemming https://a.co/d/icRX1Wn
And getting the neckline just right is such a stress. Necklines that would be "modest" on a smaller chested woman are several inches of cleavage on someone larger. But then a very high neckline just creates this vast matronly expanse that often looks worse.
I find high-ish v-necks and high-ish square necks can be good. Angles seems to help. Scoop is frequently awful.
I don’t even have big boobs but scoop neck shirts are awful. Who thought that was a good idea?
Are implants similarly heavy as natural breasts in the same size would be? I truly don't know, and also don't know whether you can consciously feel (like in your brain, not as in touching them externally with your hand) the implants inside of you once after healing from the surgery.
My mom had reconstruction after a mastectomy, and she says theyre firmer and denser. It took her a while to get used to them, and she had to invest in a whole bunch of new bras and pajamas because the old ones didn't feel comfortable and supportive enough.
It may also depend on the material from the implants, saline or silicone.
Not sure. My mother had a reconstruction after a mastectomy for cancer, as she felt none of her clothes would look right going from a very large chest to flat. I remember she said her chest felt kind of "tight" with none of the sensation of natural boobs. She also lost nipples though which meant a lot of nerve loss, which one probably wouldn't experience with solely cosmetic implants.
I follow fashion, and all of these are absolutely on trend. Not even in a “classic” way, fashion girls are literally being told, right now, to add tweed jackets, tailored trousers, long denim and silk skirts, and “quiet luxury” neutrals to their wardrobe to look more polished, professional, and “old money.” These looks are all extremely of-the-moment and styled well, and looks like them are mainstream modeled by teens and twenty-somethings at H&M, Zara, Topshop, etc etc etc.
I think this is less of a “young people today“ problem, and more of a “basement dweller has a pile of sweatpants and t-shirts soaked in cat urine on her floor and feels inferior” problem.
I wonder how many of these comments are coming from young women who barely started college during the pandemic (and if they’ve ever been employed, it was a service job with uniforms). They would definitely have no perspective on how to dress professionally.
They would definitely have no perspective on how to dress professionally.
The weird thing isn’t that they have no experience (so how would they know what professionalism looks like?), it’s that here’s a video giving them all the clothing varieties that are allowed under the dresscode and they turn around and say, “yeah, but give me something else.”
Like… When I was their age, we didn’t get YouTube tutorials on office wear. I had to read articles and definitions for “business casual.” I didn’t leave comments saying, “but this isn’t my style. Show me something a young person can wear.” It was also a super confusing time because Hollywood was showing women showing up to the office in outfits that scream “FIRE ME.”
And all those outfits in the thumbnail look stylish and sophisticated with a modern sensibility. That’s how every “ways to look expensive on a budget” style influencer says to dress.
The commenter is talking like they recommend wearing giant 80s shoulder pads with 90s pantsuits or something. Are gen z girls just incapable of understanding fashion beyond crop tops?
I once saw a young woman in Sydney wearing what I can only describe as a "suit bra". She was walking with two other people in business dress, wearing a short but relatively respectable skirt in a suit-type material. And I think a matching jacket.
Her "top" was two triangles apparently made out of the same suit material. She also did not appear to be some kind of promo girl/wearing a costume (though I suppose that is possible). She just seemed like an office worker walking out for lunch with colleagues.
In a suit bra.
It's like Seinfeld come to life.
It really was!
I wish I had looked more closely but I don't want to stare at someone, let alone someone in a revealing bra top.
suit bra
It's not showing midriff, 3/4 of the boobs or butt - GRANNY /s
It's unfortunate she doesn't recognize the soft power this aesthetic conveys.
Now you have me curious. What power is that?
It conveys a level of competence in a woman that intimidates men. Women are so often valued first and foremost for their looks. If you're attractive and successful, your success will often be attributed to your looks. It's infuriating. This business professional aesthetic that is sharp and stylish yet modest conveys that the woman has achieved success on her capabilities and not on her looks. It's unnerving to men. Source: wore a suit for a lot of my career.
Then wouldn’t the red suit jacket be the ultimate power move? (Source: female politicians.)
It’s the ultimate F U to men: “You wear little red neck ties because you’re afraid of colour, but I’ve got this whole jacket. And I’m owning it.”
I'm not familiar with the red suit jacket as a specific thing (I'm in the US for reference, maybe I'm out of the loop). I think the most powerful message to convey to men with an outfit is "I'm not thinking about you." That's what I liked about modest professional wear. I clearly did not choose this outfit because it highlights my exquisite curves. It says 'you're going to respect me without trying to fuck me.'
These are all perfectly appropriate business casual outfits
Style ≠ fashion. One is timeless and classy, the other fleeting and trashy. XD
These fashions look a bit dressy to me, but the skin coverage looks right. Granted, I am over 50. My field is male-dominated and sometimes involves visits to construction sites and industrial plants, so our dress code is more like jeans or khakis + a nice shirt or top. It has to be compatible with steel-toed boots. Often enough I am the only woman in a meeting and I don’t want to call attention with my fashion. The other day I wore a v-neck top instead of crew neck because it was what I had clean and I wanted a different color, and I felt like guys were staring.
WTF are "young lady work outfits" for the office? I bet "Kerina" is a man
Putting aside that it's a Shein ad, outfits like that are perfectly attractive and fashionable for work. We don't need to look like we're ready to go clubbing 24/7
Kerina Wang is the woman in the photographs, the one demanding new outfits has their name censored.
Dress code sucks, official clothing is a socially acceptable disciplinary device, and for women twice as much (in addition to wearing the fabric that almost doesn't bend or stretch women have skirts, heels and blouses with almost no buttons, move a little -> your costume is a mess)
wearing the fabric that almost doesn't bend or stretch
That’s an issue with ready to wear. It fits nobody. In order for ready to wear to feel comfortable, you have to get it with so much ease in the measurements that it looks oversized and sloppy on you (and then you get criticized for unprofessionalism).
Clothes that’s tailored to you is very comfortable, doesn’t need that much ease (around 3 cm of ease is favoured on average) and comfortable to move in as long as you’re not trying to show off your tennis backswing. If that’s the case, you might as well wear a sports blazer.
The best thing to do is to get RTW and have it tailored. My clothes look so good bc I get them tailored. It's much cheaper than getting custom dresses made, although that's a dream of mine
We have these stores where I live called Bargain Hunt and I've found stuff from Athleta, The Gap and Banana Republic for like..three bucks. Sort of a hit or miss, but definitely better than a Ross.
Business casual standards are obviously sexist. Those photos do show what is considered business casual for women. If there were photos for men's business casual there would be loose comforrtable khakis or chinos (neatly pressed) or twill pants (like Dockers). There would be loose sport shirts and polo shirts. Shoes would be neat mocassin-like top siders, loafers, or laced shoes made of soft leather or suede.
Women wear all those things but if a woman showed up to work wearing those clothes, she would be considered inappropriately dressed, even for business casual. None of those clothes accentuate and display women's hips, buttocks, or breasts.
Depending on the office, button down shirts without coat and tie for men is as casual as it gets. Business casual for my husband was twills (army green, tan, or navy) with button down shirt (no tie or coat). That's as casual as it got, and they'd better keep a jacket in the office just in case...
I know comfort is a personal preference thing. However, I see two different pairs of wide leg pants, which I would say are pretty comfortable, and I'm sooo glad wide leg and relaxed fit pants are back in style, the pants I've been wearing since the last time they were going out of fashion are starting to show their wear. I see two (maybe 3, can't tell what is under the one jacket) loose fitting drapey tops, which I personally find just as or more comfortable than polos. And either you love or hate skirts, but they don't bunch up or squeeze my thighs like most pants.
Maybe it is because I am in the midwest as well and the field I'm in, but I see plenty of women wearing polos and khakis to work.
I do tend to agree with you on the shoes though.
I dunno, I wear that kind of stuff to work all the time. Literally wore black pants, a polo shirt, and flats today.
Midwesterner here. Probably the region matters. I would wear the cute clothes like in this post's pictures if I wanted to be especially dressed up. Or if I just felt like it.
I’m in California so all these outfits, while pretty and appropriate, look rather formal to me. Around here, “business casual” means jeans, which I’ve actually seen worn with grubby tees in public sector jobs!😳 It truly shocked me.
I'm not in California but yeah, the outfits look a bit more dressed up than I personally would interpret "business casual" clothing to mean
It must depend on the workplace. I live in California and my workplace only does jeans on casual Fridays (and even then, you're expected to not come in in grubby t-shirts)
IKR?? It was a government office too. I always tried to dress neatly and nicely, and to be fair so did most of the other workers, but some of them (of both sexes) - just s.m.d.h.
Admittedly I'd say the center outfit does look a little old-ladyish because I assume most women wear pants to work in business casual settings, plus the contrasting trim on the jacket or cardigan seems kind of dated. Plus the skirt seems a little overly... cutesy or something? due to a combo of the A-line cut and color. Overall that outfit seems a little more formal than my idea of business casual. The other four outfits look pretty normal and suitable for the given dress code context.
Did the woman who made the video describe what specific dress code rules there were for that setting?
The contrast-trim jacket style of the center photo was invented by Coco Chanel in the 1920s, and has been worn since then!🙂 So definitely a classic! It was meant to be worn with the whole matching suit. Chanel invented this and all kinds of different styles* - she was the first designer to introduce knitwear as a wardrobe staple - because she found the prevailing women’s fashion of the day to be restrictive and fussy. She wanted women to be able to dress in a way that was both easygoing and stylish.
*other styles she invented: ropes of pearls worn casually, quilted bags with chain straps, dropped waists on dresses, costume jewelry worn en masse, etc. Still worn by women the world over to this day!
The middle one looks mostly East Asian to me. I live in an area with a lot of East Asians and that outfit is exactly what someone (probably late twenties onwards) might wear. We are in Australia with hotter weather, so shorter skirts are more of a thing. I’d expect a younger woman would want to wear a shorter skirt.
But all the rest of it looks perfectly “office normal” and not particularly old or frumpy.
She only said “business casual in downtown Toronto.”
This was just a screen grab to give you a general idea. In the video, she did show variations on each outfit, like putting on different blazers to show you how the vibe would change.
Plus the skirt seems a little overly... cutesy or something? due to a combo of the A-line cut and color
She did also model the same outfit in an identical black skirt. I’ve seen enough A-line skirts in drapy fabric in the office worn by women in their 20s and 30s that it doesn’t flag as something abnormal to me.
I do remember the local controversies we’ve had a decade ago when young women would copy Hollywood’s idea of what business “appropriate” would look like. One woman wore a skin tight black pencil mini skirt. She was surprised to be fired. The libfems argued it was entirely appropriate that her skirt was skin tight because otherwise it would be discrimination on her body shape. 💀
Hm, guess it's just my impression then, because if I were think of business casual outfits I'd personally wear, drapy ballet pink A-line skirts would not fall under that; it seems too formal and cutesy to me. The pink skirt in the screenshot reads more like something you wear to brunch at a nice restaurant or almost bridesmaid-y adjacent, even.
I would wear pants/trousers, possibly dark jeans if that were acceptable for a particular workplace, and shirts (similar to the blue one in the second pose) or blouses. More like the outfits in this blog post. But I don't work in a particularly formal industry so maybe that colors my perception.
I think it depends on the environment (like how many women you’ll likely find). My personal environment is STEM field, male dominated. I wouldn’t wear the pink skirt precisely because it reads too “feminine” coded and I need to be taken seriously. However, I’ve noticed in business-business environments (bank tellers, administrators, companies selling products or services), the situation is more relaxed around feminine coded colours.
yeah, that's my take on it too about why I wouldn't want to wear that pink skirt at work -- I'm trying to be taken seriously here and don't want to be written off in others' minds for dressing too frilly and cutesy. And my overall fashion sense is not particularly frilly-cutesy in professional contexts. In casual/social contexts, I don't worry about that as much though, such as the brunch scenario I mentioned in my earlier comment.
I think the last of her concerns about Shein should be ‘old lady’ outfits.
Right? Shein is hot garbage. I'm poor but refuse to order from them
Poor people are better off rolling the dice at Goodwill than buying the garbage that Shein and Temu sells
Have you been down the women’s isle at thrift stores? It’s all polyester and acrylic garbage. Found a bunch of Shein stuff too. I shop in the men’s isle for cotton and resew it to fit my body.
Yep. These plastic clothes have completely obliterated women’s thrift stores unless you live near more selective ones like Plato’s Closet. I have better luck at Marshall’s type stores.
My local Plato's Closet was also filled with Shein. Think at this point the 'good' secondhand tends to be sold online, Poshmark, ThredUp, eBay...
No way!
Wtf I'm genuinely surprised, they used to be SO selective
Yeah, I remember it being a place where you could find unique vintage clothes, but went a couple months ago and it was like a rack of poly crop tops, a rack of poly miniskirts, a rack of acrylic poly crop "sweaters." Lot of Shein, lot of Forever21, lot of H&M, lot of thin, pilling polyester fabric, lot of fast fashion sewing, seams and hems already pulling apart. Maybe it was just a local franchise owner who DGAF, but it was pretty bleak...completely packed with Zoomers, though.
YES. It’s so annoying. Thrift shopping is one of my hobbies, and there is wayyyyy to much Shein/Romwe/Temu trash on the racks these days. I can tell just by touching the fabric, even without looking at the tag. It’s so cheaply made and low quality. It ends up on the thrift shelves because the company return policies are crap and people get stuck with trashy clothes that looked great online but are not so great in real life.
This is why I don’t fault low income people for purchasing fast fashion. Not only is the clothes at the thrift store crap anyways but it’s overpriced (considering it was donated) and more expensive than new pristine clothes on sale (why is a jersey shirt with a stain and pilled fabric $15? Like WTF?). At least they’ll find something in their size and they wouldn’t have spent all that time sorting through racks of rags.
OMG yes! Thrifting used to be so fun and a great place for bargains. But now the used, torn, and dirty shit at thrift shops costs as much as something brand new at Walmart or Target or Ross! What's the point?
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Goodwill and thrift shops are FANTASTIC for clothes if you have kids under 3 years old. I found so many adorable outfits in good condition for my little one at Goodwill. I think its because babies and toddlers outgrow clothes so fast that many parents have to unload outfits before their child ever wears them. So they're less likely to be stained and ripped than the adult clothes.
Sadly, now that my little one is bigger, its harder to find good clothes for her at Goodwill
I love Once Upon A Child for kids clothes, but for myself, the only reason I bother with thrifting is to find random unique items.
We had so many good consignment shops around here but the pandemic nuked them all
I'd recommend to low income people to buy from thrift stores, but only if the quality is good. Spending 5$ on something you can wear for years versus spending them on something that falls apart at the seams after one year makes a difference.
If the stuff in the thrift store is crap, though, there's really no point.
(Plus, I gotta say, assessing quality is an acquired skill. Not everyone is able to tell which shirt will stay good for years and which will fall apart in one. There's more obvious things like thickness of fabric, but I have had nasty surprises with good-looking stuff, too.)
Thrift shops really vary. Thrift shops near tonier neighborhoods often have better quality stuff and some charity shops have way better prices than others. The one in our church basement has stuff-a-bag-for-$5 sales. Being in the country, it also tends to get good quality stuff, but from old people.
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Goodwill got too big for its britches. Their shit it's literally more expensive than Wal-Mart and Target
Well, I did say thrift shops are a roll of the dice. One of my Goodwill trips was a bust because it was all discarded Lularoe junk. LOL
Its a shame I'm too fat to fit in my mother's and grandmother's old clothes. Some of them are still nice despite being decades old
I did not have any social media during the height of mlm takeover time so I had no idea what lularoe was at all. Grabbed a dress at Salvation Station, like, 4 years ago and it still looks great! I wear it fairly often, too, because I ALWAYS get compliments from sisters out and about but rarely from men and I couldn't ask for anything more.
There were some manufacture dates where lularoe was good quality. I have a pair of leggings I got 2ndhand that have survived astonishingly well. But once the mlm fad got going, build quality on the clothes diminished.
I need that dress!
It's the "Nicole" style! Someone else mentioned that the older dresses were higher quality. This makes perfect sense to me as any others I've acquired (I began looking for them at garage sales and definitely came across a few) don't hold up to the OG! They also come in a few different fabrics and the one I love is just the basic t-shirt cotton type.
I got one, though, that has a really fuckn badass cassette tape print that reminds me of 90's zines and grateful dead tapers and that is so much of what I love.
My brother's girlfriend calls them "disposable clothes" and it irks the fuck out of me. Every time I'm there there's another giant Shein haul. And she isn't a poor woman, she makes mid 6 figures. I don't get it. I like my $25 Hot Topic dresses.
How on earth are you getting a dress at Hot Topic for $25? Where I live a skirt by itself there is at least $50. $25 for socks maybe
Oh I shop exclusively online. I've actually never shopped for clothes in the physical store. Online, there's almost always a 30% off sale, and sometimes the savings can be as much as 70% off. Plus I shop there regularly and so I get Hotcash, which makes things about 50% off and I get other rewards. I always ship to store to save on shipping.
The other day I got my son a $15 Jason Voorhees plush for .47¢ using my rewards. I was so proud of myself. I recently got two Studio Ghibli dresses and a pair of Totoro slippers for $75 total.
That’s amazing! You are a smart shopper for sure
hot topic runs clearance sales somewhat regularly. you can get some good deals on the website, so I'm guessing that's probably where
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Tragically I ordered from there when it was still really new and I kept getting their insta ads. I got journaling supplies instead of clothes and honestly I’m really happy with what I got. Bummer
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Honestly, I don't know how people don't understand that Temu's prices are too good to be true.
I refuse to order from them bc I keep seeing articles and comments from ppl about their credit card info being compromised on that site.
Plus like..there's such a thing as TOO cheap. I don't want brand new shoes that cost $1.50. I don't want a brand new dress that costs $4. As it is, I can't afford to buy ethical clothing, I shop at Hot Topic mostly. But my conscience can't deal with THAT level of exploitation.
The sad thing is, with the higher prices, most of it just goes into the pockets of the company, they don't necessarily pay the people who sew the clothes more.
(But I think $4 stuff is probably very bad quality, on top of being exploitative. Fabric costs, and as it is all machine made nowadays, you can only save that much by going to low wage countries.)
I think people forgot that Wish existed
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Don't they use child labor or something?