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DiscussionHave you tried the inzoi demo?
Inzoi is a Korean game similar to the Sims, and there is a free demo temporarily available in steam (it will stop being available in about 8 hours iirc). The only playable part is the character creator.
I've just tried it and I really liked it. You can make asymmetrical faces, you can change the length of most hairstyles... I managed to make a very realistic version of me.
I have a few complaints though. You can add body hair to male zois but not female zois, and I really wanted some leg hair. Also male zois look muscly even if you give them 0 muscle mass. I'd like to see some nose, lip, etc presets, because I don't want to spend hours creating a character each time, and some default swatches. And I'd love to see acne.
Otherwise, it probably is the best character creator I've seen so far. I expected way worse, considering Korean beauty standards.
What's your opinion?
It's not just the gigantic scars that bother me but the fact that many of them prefer to have no nipples as well. If they were trying to have a masculine looking chest they would opt for the two cupped scars that can be filled with pec implants and disguised with chest hair. A huge, jagged scar across a soft skinned feminine chest without nipples seems to be a deliberate attempt to turn off anyone who would try to sexualise them rather than wanting people to think they are male.
it costs more money and they have to be repositioned so taken off and sewn back on, they will have no feeling in them if they don't shrivel up and fall off, its a lot more work on a women then a boob implant is on a man, they have to scrap out the breast tissue cut a load of skin off, raise the nipples up higher on the chest and its extremely difficult to reverse they can't just shove a pair of implants in there
JFC trans surgeries really are body horror my goodness
but the fact that many of them prefer to have no nipples as well
It's such a bizarre uncanny valley effect for someone not to have any nipples, to have voluntarily chosen to remove them (and not due to cancer). Everyone is supposed to have nipples, even though men's and women's nipples look different.
Yeah, it's kinda like not having eyebrows. Even if you don't immediately notice what is missing, it's deeply creepy.
(One villain actor in LotR had his eyebrows shaved off to make him creepier. Obviously, nipples ... don't grow back.)
Cosmetic surgeries manage to cut and sew with no scars at all.
This is not true. Competent surgeons who do purely cosmetic/aesthetic and/or reconstructive plastic surgeries put a great deal of thought and effort into locating the incisions in places where the scars won't be visible. Such as under the hairline on the scalp or on the mons pubis, behind the ears, under the earlobes, under the chin, or in already-existing places where the skin is naturally creased or folded such as the eyelids, belly-button and folds of the neck.
When breast reduction or augmentation surgeries are done, the scars aren't usually readily visible to other people because they are placed under where the breasts hang down so they're "naturally" hidden from view.
But when women's or girls' breasts are completely removed, as in radical double mastectomy for "gender affirmation," there's no breast tissue left to hide the scars under.
Moreover, my impression is that most of the plastic surgeons who do so-called "gender affirming" double mastectomies on mentally-ill girls and young women are very far from the top surgeons in their fields. They are unethical bottom-feeders and hacks. They tend to do slapdash jobs at best - and horrifying butchery at worst.
Plus, many of the girls and young women getting double mastectomies for "gender affirmation" aren't in great physical health to begin with, and they're also not the best about after-care. How people heal from surgery is affected by those factors.
BTW, I've had facial plastic surgeries to remove tumors from around and behind one of my eyes, and to repair the damage to muscles that that the tumors caused. The scars aren't evident to the casual observer because the surgeons who did the operations made their incisions in places the scars wouldn't be easily evident. But if you were with me now, you would definitely see the scars once I pointed out the spots where you should look for them. Same goes for abdominal scars I have from a couple of surgeries I had done via laparoscopy.
By contrast, I also had surgery on the front of one of my knees to repair a sports injury about 45 years ago - and the sizeable scar from that surgery has always been very visible to anyone who looks because there's no place to hide a scar on the front of the knee like there is on the back of the knee where the skin creases.
The want the scars. It’s a type of self harm.
They legit do, I saw a tif post that her surgeon had done a really good job but she felt disappointed that she didn’t have obvious scars because there is so much online stuff celebrating them.
I was just thinking this last night when my friend was showing me her post cancer chest in which she’d had both breasts removed. There really weren’t any scars except for one area she said they were going to do a revision on. It’s clear then that TIF’s scars are intentionally bad.
I feel like the scars are basically the equivalent of a trendy tattoo at this point
Well, there is always the whole 'incompetent surgeon' angle on this as well.
Instead of doing a refined plastic surgery job, these surgeons are 'yeeting the teets'. They have a chance to do a barely tolerable job of removing breast tissue and no expectation of creating an acceptable outcome.
This is likely causing a stampede of unskilled or novice surgeons to enter this field since there is so much easy money to be made. If the outcome is unable to fully close or causes bulges or restrictions as it heals well, cha-ching - more surgery will fix that.
It is the wild west out there. This surgery is morally reprehensible so it attracts a certain type of surgeon. I have seen examples of 'good' results, but those people are few and far between.
The sad truth is it is the consumer who is driving this. If you are in such a mental state that you want to remove a perfectly healthy part of your body as soon as possible because you recently decided you cannot abide being who you are another second - you don't look further than finding a person willing to butcher you.
I think this is a big part of it. I can't tell you how many TIF scars I've seen that are asymmetrical. Like the scars are noticably at different angles or have different lengths.
If the surgeon can't even take the time to make sure the two scars match, it says a lot about the surgeon. It is so sad.
Well, there is always the whole 'incompetent surgeon' angle on this as well.
Yeah, I think that's a big factor.
Anyone who would remove healthy breasts doesn't have the patients' best interest in mind, anyways.
I don't know exactly how you create smaller scars, but I think you'd probably need more stitches. (I have an old scar from when I had an accident as child, and you very clearly see where every single stitch was put in, probably because there was a lot of pull against the stitches. Putting stitches in hurt, and I guess they thought "She's a child, the scar won't be very visible, so who cares, let's not torment her more than necessary")
Which would take more time. In which you cannot earn more money by "yeeting the teets" of another woman.
And perhaps TIFs even don't complain, because they think scars are manly. (I do remember being kinda proud that I had such a large scar, back when I was a child. Felt badass.)
My mother had breast cancer, and the scar from her mastectomy was jagged, dark, and very prominent. I long figured it was because a surgeon performing a medically necessary mastectomy isn’t going to be concerned with aesthetics. What blows my mind, though, is how many TIFs’ scars look as bad or worse, despite it being entirely cosmetic. It feels like these surgeons don’t give a rat’s ass about good outcomes. (And I guess it’s worked out for them since TIFs are largely proud of their scars.)
I think many doctors who do medically necessary mastectomies feel bad for the patient and try to make it look as nice as possible so she won't have to deal with feeling ugly on top of all ... and since they're skilled, they can do that. (Some might opt to get it over with quickly? I have a very prominent scar I got as child, and since it's in a not very visible area, I think they were like "just get it over with, put a plaster on it and send the poor kid home")
And many doctors who do gender butchery don't give a shit about the women they butcher, because ... if they did, they wouldn't do it in the first place.
My theory is that 1) the doctors who perform the surgeries are rapacious ghouls. They do a hack job, wait for the check to clear, and make themselves scarce if there are complications.
Some TiFs like showing off their scars, so they don't bother with scar gel or sunscreen (for example, the TiF who took off her shirt at the White House.
Many TiFs have other, untreated mental illnesses that make it hard to be diligent about after-surgery care.
Regarding point number 2, I've even seen a few TIFs line their mastectomy scars with glitter (probably glitter eyeliner/shadow, from the way it sticks) 🤦🏾♀️
Oh that sounds healthy jfc where are their friends and family??
Their friends are likely being swept into the same social contagion, right along with.
Family, who knows in this present day when Child Services in some places will literally come take a kid from homes where the parents dare not to "affirm" (or, so I've read, will even fabricate causes of concern in order to do so, in the case of especially zealous caseworkers).
Photos of Gallagher posing with that girl who had numerous self harm scars
TIF in a pride Amsterdam poster who was holding a rubix cube and a tedddy bear
All of the TIFs I see here regularly (they work in retail) have cutting marks on their arms.
I've also read that some of them deliberately inflame and stretch the scar tissue on purpose to get "sick scars" by raising their arms above their head as much as possible when they're NOT supposed to, during the healing session, to make it obvious af that they're trans because trans pride.
I just can't deal with how stupid, stupid, stupid TIFs are.
The only advantage they would ever derive from butchering and poisoning their healthy bodies would be to be mistaken for actual men and getting male privilege.
And they willfully throw away that, too?
After all they sacrificed?
It makes my head explode.
I see a lot of overlap with pro-ana ideology and TIFs. For a lot of teen girls with anorexia nervosa the goal isn’t to look skinny but to look sick. It’s why a lot of them self harm as well, same with TIFs. So many of them have been through trauma they don’t know how to express so they instead take on a sick role and try to externalize their pain.
Yes, I agree. It's like you get to a point where you just want to revel in being as fucked up as possible. It's like, you lose faith in ever being able to be un-fucked-up so you just think, "whatever I'm going to really go with it and mess myself up as much as I possibly can". It's like a self-destructive urge takes over.
Interesting article about animals self-mutilating in captivity and what it can tell us about self-destructive behaviour in humans:
So they aren't even pretending anymore that they want to pretend to be male? It's just outright self-harming behaviour?
The surgeons who do those surgeries must be monsters.
I think consciously these women rationalise their behaviour in terms of wanting to be (or believing the are) men. But underneath, just below the conscious surface, it's just a new way for women to hate and harm their bodies.
I do believe the surgeons are monsters, yes.
It really is the new religion, isn't it?
(I read about many women in the Middle Ages refusing to eat, which was then framed as fasting and Christian virtue. Society always rewards women for hating and destroying our own bodies, doesn't it? The only time when there was some pushback was when anorexia was seen as problem. Now, though? Now we are back to applauding young girls destroying their bodies.)
The photos of Gallagher posing with that girl who had numerous self harm scars on her arms, and that black TIF in a pride Amsterdam poster who was holding a rubix cube and a tedddy bear who has so many gashes up and across her SHOULDERS she looked like she'd beeen through a blender. All poster children for mastectomy.
Those photos are so frightening and sad. Seeing women trying to cope with trauma and being butchered instead of being helped.
Those stretched scars will itch like crazy. They will already itch, but purposely stretching those scars can make the itching almost unbearable.
Like @RikkiTikkiTavi said
This field attracts unethical and often unskilled surgeons
General surgeons have to be able to do complicated lifesaving surgeries. To further complicate matters, the surgeries are often performed on people who are ill, elderly, and/or unhealthy. This requires a lot of technical skills
Many plastic surgeries are ‘elective’ and often done on healthy patients, but there is an expectation of a cosmetic outcome
Teet yeeting surgeons do not need technical or cosmetic skills. Literally any surgeon can do them, as we see
Amputating healthy breasts from physically healthy young women is exceptionally easy. The only skill required is to be a piece of crap
It usually takes 2-3 years for surgical scars to achieve their 'final form' as it were. It's likely that many, perhaps most, of the scars You see aren't that old yet, in which case they'll look more conspicuous than they eventually will.
The scars from large incisions of any kind, whether cosmetic, orthopedic, or otherwise, usually remain very much visible for life. Are You sure You aren't inadvertently comparing these to much smaller scars?
I was going to say that. Also it's a crazy new fad, so the scars you're seeing are going to be fresher, statistically speaking.
I don't think they follow any scar protocols. I recently had surgery in an area that isn't always covered by clothing and my surgeon and his staff repeatedly, relentlessly emphasized that I have to keep it out of the sun, and if I can't it has to be well covered in sunscreen for one year. Yet we see TIFs posting pictures of themselves as soon as they have healed enough shirtless outdoors.
Actual skill doesn't seem to matter to the trans crowd.
Kathy Rumor has the nickname of "Butcher of Ardmore", and she's still getting patients to carve up. Same with Curtis Crane and However-you-spell-her-name Gallagher. There's warnings about their work all over trans reddit. They're still booked up and still have their medical licenses.
They just want someone to cut the parts off that offend them ASAP.
I think sometimes they choose to have the scars as well because it creates that "pec" look that men get if they work out and so they think it makes them look a bit more manly.
Not just a scar, but a totally botched operation. Of course, the woman was obese and shouldn't have been allowed to undergo the procedure to begin with, but the surgeon obviously didn't let that deter him/her from butchering this woman's chest.
Oh my god. This is literally body horror.
I wondered that, as well. They can do lumpectomy scars that are barely visible after a couple of years, but TIF's scars are always really visible. You can't compare them with proper mastectomy scars, which are typically longer, might have branches, and have also involved the removal of glandular and muscle tissue.
Part of it might be that these girls have gotten it done so recently that they are still pink and haven't been stretched or flattened yet.
I suspect the cosmetic surgeons who do that are a lot less skilled than the actually competent surgeons who do necessary mastectomies.
As for the scars being bigger than those of other cosmetic surgery, it might have something to do with how much tissue is removed, and the muscle under it. If you get cosmetic surgery on the nose, there's not as many muscles pulling on the skin there, I suppose.
Is it because it is done to women and girls? Why don't they do better to convince "us" those females are actually males? I don't get it.....
Well, it miiight be because the surgeons are male and don't want to enable women to invade male spaces unnoticed. Just a little conspiracy theory.
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There are a lot of women plastic surgeons who do trans surgeries, so I don’t think that is the reason. Dr. Gallagher being the most famous.
I don't mean to undermine the discussion, but I need to push back on this. No cosmetic surgeon can cut and sew with no scars. ANY surgery will leave scar. The visibility of scar tissue can be somewhat mitigated by some techniques, but will also vary based on the individual's own tissues and how their healing process goes and a ton of other factors that a surgeon cannot control.
In the case of "top surgeries," a big factor the surgeon can't control is the elective cross-sex hormone use of the patient.
Sex hormones impact wound healing, and we already know from studies of menopausal woman that dropping estrogen levels are directly linked with skin becoming thinner, less hydrated, and showing inhibited wound healing.
The surgeon also can't control the fact that these are young women with profound body hatred issues. People who hate their bodies are not as likely to take good care of them, and are less likely to comply with recovery procedures after a surgery.
This exactly. Many TIFS I know also started aggressive weightlifting far sooner than their recovery time allowed, meaning they further messed up their incisions. There's also a 'I got top surgery 5 weeks ago and now it's summer time SO YA BOY IS SHIRTLESS AND JOYFUL' thing, meaning these scars darken significantly in sunlight.
Legitimately depressing for a female person to remove their breasts before they can enjoy being shirtless in the sun… and then blame their own brain and body rather than a society that says half of people can be shirtless in public and half of people are dirty to see.
I remember being around ten and wanting to see what it felt like so I went in my totally private, fenced in, protected by a Rottweiler backyard and took my shirt off. It was so ingrained in me that this was wrong that I couldn't even get comfortable and enjoy it
At age ten? My heart breaks for you.
I didn't even feel a need to cover my chest before I grew breasts. Which I think happened when I was about eleven.
I tried to walk outside without a shirt on at about age 4, not to go anywhere but just be outside, and my parents freaked out explaining that girls can't do that. It was shocking enough to be a very vivid memory of mine decades later!
Oh my god ditto!! I remember it being so hot and all the boys had their shirts off. I was 4 or 5 at the oldest. I begged my mom to let me and she wouldn't. I remember saying, "but I look the same as the boys under my shirt!"
One day I took off out the front door without a shirt and remember my mom and brothers chasing me and dragging me back inside to put a shirt on.
I was an early bloomer. I had B cups in third grade. I used to constantly look like I was going to tip over. My mother and grandmother made me wear reducing bras that made them look smaller. By 8th grade I was a D cup. I would diet constantly until a doctor told me that it wouldn't make them smaller.
I would not feel comfortable walking around shirtless even if it weren't sexualized because it's painful.
If it weren't for the fact that half of people (men) are so depraved, I would go topless too. I love the freedom of it. But they are so disgusting about it, so I don't. Ironically, they are preventing the things they would want, by their scrotery.
Ah yes, as Exulansic calls it, the Holy Rite Of The First Beach Visit