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I'm a bi woman, a bi woman who's had actual relationships with other women (longest was 9 years), not one of those women who's "bi" on paper. I am married to a man now, I rarely even mention (to anyone who doesn't already know, I was with a woman for 9 years ffs) that I'm bi because it's irrelevant outside of a few very narrow contexts, since I never plan to be single ever again
Also, the word queer is awful and I question anyone who would use it.
That said, by the same token, do you have an issue with a bi women who say they are in a lesbian relationship if they are currently with a woman?
That said, by the same token, do you have an issue with a bi women who say they are in a lesbian relationship if they are currently with a woman?
personally as a lesbian I don't care.
society in general doesn't give a shit how you identify yourself, if you are in a homo relationship, people are going to say you are a lesbian, no matter if you have the phrase “I am bisexual” tattooed on your face.
during this time, unfortunately, a bi will suffer the homophobia that a lesbian would suffer.
and well unfortunately the consequence of that is that if a bi is then in a relationship with a man, society is going to treat it as “they cured a lesbian”. but well that is not their fault but the fault of the homophobic society.
to me the problem is that bisexuals lately only shout that they are bi when they are in a relationship with a man, which I find ridiculous this desire to make a straight relationship feel “different” to straight people.
unfortunately, a bi will suffer the homophobia that a lesbian would suffer
Ya, no one ever leaned out of a truck window and screamed "BISEXUAL" at me
I agree 100%. A TIP who only knew me a year once overheard me telling a story to a friend and actually interrupted to say "wait a sec, did I just correctly hear you say 'She? Meaning you have had relationships with women in the past??? I always thought you were straight! Why have you NEVER MENTIONED being part of the QUEER community?!" and I physically cringed lol.
"wait a sec, did I just correctly hear you say 'She? Meaning you have had relationships with women in the past??? I always thought you were straight! Why have you NEVER MENTIONED being part of the QUEER community?!" and I physically cringed lol.
TIPs cannot fathom that a person can be "queer" without talking about it 24/7
Seems awfully transphobic to assume you were talking exclusively about women when using she her pronouns.
not the person you replied to (and also not a lesbian because of the discourse, I'm just WLW) - the biggest issue about that last scenario is when these so-called "lesbians" go into lesbian spaces and then talk about how much they love dick. or how attractive they find men. That's not a lesbian experience at all, because lesbians are exclusively attracted to the female sex. The experiences of het and bi women who have fallen out of love with the male sex are still in no way comparable to the experiences of women who have never and are incapable of ANY attraction to men, who are ONLY attracted to women, and having testimony or talk of male attraction in a exclusive-female-attraction space is just as jarring as finding a man in a women's only space.
no one cares if bisexuals call themselves heterosexuals / in a heterosexual relationship because het is the norm already. But that's why they always lament not being able to talk about their bisexuality when in said "heteronormative" relationship, but... tough? idk it's. VERY hard for me to feel empathy on that last part. oh no, you conform
the biggest issue about that last scenario is when these so-called "lesbians" go into lesbian spaces and then talk about how much they love dick
Oh geez, I never did that. I thought the only ppl who loved dick that much were gay men
Gay men and "pick-me" type, in my experience. The same goes for that one woman who pops up in every thread about oral sex, when other women are expressing what a chore it can be, and raves and enthuses how much she adores giving blowjobs and how great deepthroating is and how it just take a little practice etc.
I mentally tag those women "BJ Queens". I mean if they have clitorises in their throat and Olympic level jaw muscles, great for them. I personally don't.
I mentally tag those women "BJ Queens"
Omg, I'm sorry.
I mean if you genuinely love it, great for you!
I've never seen any bi woman do it unless they're talking to gay men. I do see straight women do it in gay spaces - emphasizing they could never be gay, they love dick. Again, usually to gay men.
But mostly I've seen straight couples who say they're trans/non-binary/genderqueer go into lesbian spaces and announce that lesbians can like dick too. This obnoxious behavior is often blamed on bisexual women - but the woman with her "trans girlfriend" could just as easily be straight.
I just haven't seen bisexual women go into lesbian spaces and start talking about how much they love penis/their boyfriend. Yet people cite this happening as a reason to keep bi women out of lesbian spaces so I will assume it happens sometimes.
It definitely happens.
Not that long ago I was talking to a bi woman who seemed to be into me but ruined it by saying she loves dick too much and I could never satisfy her.
Another bi woman, on a first date, told me she always leaves her girlfriends for men when she misses dick.
A so-called lesbian told me she had only ever dated TIMs and loved dick and thought vagina was gross. She said she would have been fine trying sex with me.
Another bi woman kissed me then told me afterwards that her husband had been watching (we were in a bar) and asked me to join them for a threesome. She was a friend of a friend and would criticise lesbians all the time for not wanting to be with a woman with a husband.
My first girlfriend was bi and broke up with me because I didn’t have a dick and she needed dick for it to feel like real sex.
Another bi woman was in an LGBT space that was mainly gay men and even they found her love of dick to be weird as hell in a gay space.
I truly see this less from straight women than I do from bi women and it actually makes me really sad because I want to feel like I’m in a community with bi women. But they have repeatedly made me feel like I’m nothing but a fetish to them and straight women haven’t.
Literally WTAF. I’m sorry those women treated you like a disposable plaything and said such cruel (and frankly insane) things straight to your face. You deserve better.
Yeah. They were awful. I choose to only date lesbians or bisexual women who have already been in committed relationships with women these days to reduce the likelihood of it. Fortunately I’m old enough and comfortable enough with myself to know my worth these days!
Yeah, I’ve never heard of women talking about dick that much except in TV shows written by men
I think men in general love dick. They won't stop talking about them.You even have so called 'straight' men, who say they are straight but only like dick. lol
they are in a homosexual relationship/same sex relationship. I am not a lesbian-- am heterosexual so I won't speak too much if the word lesbian is accurate. But homosexual/same sex is the most accurate/neutral.
do you have an issue with a bi women who say they are in a lesbian relationship if they are currently with a woman?
I'm not the person you asked, but in the circles I've travelled in, there's been divided opinion on this since I was in college/uni in the early 1970s.
Although I've had relationships with both women and men, I personally would personally never characterize any sexual/romantic relationship I've had with another woman as a lesbian relationship. Just as I wouldn't characterize any crush, flirtation or fling I've had with another girl or woman as lesbian crush, flirtation or fling. That's out of respect for lesbians and their unique situation and life experience, which is very different to - and I believe, much more difficult than - my own situation and life experience. I've never felt it was my right to use the label "lesbian" for my own relationships with other women, or my sexual attractions for other women, because I am not a lesbian.
Another reason I would never say I was in a lesbian relationship is that nearly all the other women and girls I've had sexual relationships with have been bisexuals like me.
At the same time, though, some lesbian friends and acquaintances have always taken issue with my position on this. Some think the real reason I would never describe my own relationships - or my crushes, dalliances with other women - as lesbian in nature is that deep down in my heart of hearts, I must feel the word lesbian has a negative connotations, and I don't want myself or my own relationships or attractions to be "tarred with that brush" so to speak.
On the other hand, some lesbians I know have told me I'm just being a pedantic, picky asshole who's "overthinking" the issue as I have an unfortunate tendency to do.
But I've always stuck to my guns on this anyways because I think there are many unique aspects to being a lesbian and the label lesbian belongs to women who are actually lesbians. So I personally am very careful about the lingo I use in this regard coz I think it's inaccurate and unfair to use terminology that ends up making it seem as though there isn't and can't possibly be any meaningful or appreciable difference between sexual/romantic relationships involving three different sets of women: two lesbians; a lesbian and a bisexual woman; two bisexual women.
At the same time, however, I routinely characterize the relationships I have had with men as heterosexual relationships. I don't have a problem with that, in large part because I don't see heterosexuals as a marginalized minority.
So obviously, my personal position on this topic is wholly inconsistent, contradictory and hypocritical! Itn the final anaylysis, my own position makes no sense at all. Which is one of the reasons I don't feel it's my place to make definitive statements or judgments about how other women describe their own and other women's relationships.
I will probably get a lot of hate for this comment but here goes. Ovarit is shutting down, so 🤷♀️
It's interesting how in your experience, lesbians have derided you if you won't use the word lesbian to describe your relationships (or situationships--whatever you wanna call it) with other women. They call you pedantic, too. Too ironic if you ask me. In my experience a whole lot of lesbians are eager to shit on bisexual women at the first opportunity. We're not gay enough. We're not straight enough. We're playing both sides. We can conveniently just date men if the going gets rough. You name it. I see this shit in this website so much I've lost count, and it's one aspect I will NOT miss.
And when you refuse to use their label to describe your same sex relationship, now suddenly bisexual women are being elitist because we apparently think the word lesbian has a negative connotation. But wait, you're bisexual so don't you even dare use the word lesbian to describe anything about yourself. Remember how you're not gay enough? JFC these women need to pick a lane already.
I'm bisexual and I been in a same sex relationship with a lesbian since 2018. She knows I'm attracted to men, but she also knows she's the one I'm spending the rest of my life with, so at the end of the day, neither of us lose sleep over it. When I describe my relationship with her, I call it a same sex relationship. When she describes it, she calls it a lesbian relationship. Does it bother me? Absolutely not. She's a grown adult with two English degrees, so who am I to compel or place constraints on her speech?
Lesbians that love to police what bisexual women do or don't do or say it don't say need to get a life already.
Also, I get there are a lot of spicy straights who love to claim they're bisexual (or "queer," ugh). They're not. It's all performative bullshit, or people who have no personality so they try to jump on the alphabet people bandwagon, and I'm honestly surprised more women in Ovarit can't tell the difference.
Cosign to everything you just said. One thing I find interesting about these recurring debates is that monosexuals are often blind to the cultural aspects of sexual orientation. I think some bisexuals are more aware of it because we know what it's like to be dating one partner while still being interested in the culture of the other side of our orientation. So many LG friends have made nasty comments like "aren't you with a MAN now?" when I've gone to a LGB film festival or a weekend in Provincetown or a gay AA meeting. And so many women I've dated are angry or contemptuous when I engage in what they see as straight culture.
It's "pick a side" without saying it directly. Some of these commenters seem to think sexual orientation is just a matter of who you're involved with. It's much more than that. As I said elsewhere, I know older lesbians who are done with dating but they still enjoy being part of the LGB community. Why do people think bisexual women don't have that same need?
(I know people will answer that by complaining about the bi women who bring men into lesbian spaces - but I've seen considerable anger directed at bi women merely existing in LGB spaces, alone or with female partners.)
Right now I'm not dating anyone but that doesn't make me asexual or a blank slate. I'm still someone who has been shaped by her past relationships and social circles, someone who's been active in LGB activism and written about LGB issues for many years, someone who's been considered dirty, perverted, and predatory because I'm bisexual. That's all linked to my sexual orientation and it informs who I am as a person. Yet so many people seem to resent bisexual women who own their identity even when they're not with a woman.
100% I previously naively thought that wlw was enough to bond over but I keep seeing resentful content + posts about bisexuals, and that is the one thing I won't miss from this site.
Like... and even the talk about "privilege" as if bisexuality provides a shield. As if a homophobe will verify with me if I'm lesbian or bi before targeting me when I'm out with a woman. As if my parents are any less disgusted by me liking women because I went on a date once with a guy. As if I don't have similar experiences of being "clocked/noticed" by classmates and bullied and called a "dke" over and over as if it were my name, despite being secretive about any kind of sexuality during my teen years. (lol I remember the first time though I was like "how did they knowwwww" with a similar incredulous vibe to that joke from Matteo Lane about getting called a F by someone from a car)
Being judged for not performing femininity and not being into teen boys. (Because I was bi but teen boys were and are repulsive... so...) Not following gender norms. Doing male-dominated hobbies and professions. (Because you're already outcast so why not hop in) Etc.
Yeah it's weird they wanna make bi women feel bad for looking for community. I've even seen a recent trend of young-ish lesbians who say it's almost impossible for them to date (they're frustrated about lack of choice in their communities or whatever) and then turn around and make smug comments about bisexual women. Like THEY'RE admitting to having almost no experience with women but feel the need to be biphobic because that makes themselves feel righteous and maybe more secure about their lack. But honestly f- that I do not want company with people who don't have the empathy and mental capacity to see our similarities. Or at the very least they can stop being so smug and judgemental about bisexuality.
Also, I get there are a lot of spicy straights who love to claim they're bisexual (or "queer," ugh). They're not.
Hahaha I feel the same as you about most everything you've said here but especially this. Kissing another woman once at a first party doesn't make you bisexual or "queer", and I've gotten similar flack here for as much just under a different username
There’s definitely a divide on this. As a lesbian, I’m perfectly fine with bi women in relationships with women calling that a lesbian relationship. You’re seen as lesbians by society so why not? Other lesbians would disagree with me.
There is a difference between the lesbian and bisexual experience. While we both experience attraction to women, the lack of attraction to men is a very isolating experience for a lesbian in a patriarchal society. I really appreciate that you see this difference because it often feels like other non-lesbians don’t. I can’t tell you how much it heartens me to see this.
I also don’t think that what you said is contradictory. You don’t use lesbian because you aren’t one and we are a minority (let me add: we also don’t want bisexual women claiming to be lesbian just to have sex with a man and have men thinking they can turn a lesbian. By not calling yourself a lesbian you aren’t adding to that harmful idea) and that’s different to describing yourself/your relationship as heterosexual because no lesbian is trying to turn you if you say you’re straight. The opposite isn’t true.
That said, by the same token, do you have an issue with a bi women who say they are in a lesbian relationship if they are currently with a woman?
Fellow bi lady here, and no, I don't have a problem with that.
Is a relationship with two women definitionally a lesbian relationship? Or do both women have to be lesbians for the relationship to be a lesbian one?
I rarely even mention (to anyone who doesn't already know, I was with a woman for 9 years ffs) that I'm bi because it's irrelevant outside of a few very narrow contexts
I feel this about "asexual". I don't see why it needs to be under the alphabet umbrella.
One doesn't face any kind of discrimination for not liking sex much, or not liking it at all. People can't "tell" by looking at you, and no one cares either way.
Otherwise why not put celibate people, single-not-currently-dating people and nuns and monks under the rainbow as well?
Otherwise why not put celibate people, single-not-currently-dating people and nuns and monks under the rainbow as well?
Don't give them ideas!
Not to mention that a lot of straight women call themselves bisexual nowadays for no other reason than that they find a couple of actresses and singers pretty to look at. By that definition there isn't a single heterosexual human on the entire planet.
I think some straight women don't understand the difference between aesthetic attraction and sexual/romantic attraction. Around high school and college, I became really homophobic/biphobic out of a silly fear that I was a lesbian because I found some girls cute. It wasn't till I got a little older that I realized it was just an aesthetic attraction. I admired those girls who looked in a way I'd want to emulate or just found visually appreciating beyond sexuality. It's in the same vein as I'd put looking at a beautiful horse, car, or painting. I get no sexual pleasure from any of those things, they just look good. This is why I still consider males in my target sexuality because the only sexual stuff I like is mlm. Even though I have zero desire to engage with a male irl. I still do sexualize males in a way I don't with women if that makes any sense.
This. I hate this % of bisexuality bs argument so much. It spills over into the whole discourse about straight or bisexual women who call themselves lesbians because they "lost their attraction for men" and "only like women now" - fuck off with that. Lesbians don't like men at all, PERIOD. EVER.
Also spills over into "men will rape anything" - it doesn't mean all men are actually bisexual, they just want their dicks wet. They're not attracted to the man or pig or tree they're fucking.
If porn actors and actresses can "pretend to be gay" for the camera that is a pretty fucking big definition that "everyone is actually bisexual" doesn't hold up. Or homosexuals who had to force themselves through het. norm and had kids from it because it was the expected thing to do. Being coerced through something, having the physical act of sex without the attraction, is just going through the motions.
Is "attraction" a sticky thing to quantify? Yeah, sure, maybe. But thinking about kissing a woman once versus actively pursuing women as another woman, having sexual attraction towards her, constantly being attracted to and aroused by other women. Do you think about it enough that it is literally a part of your being, and not some random one off? I think if a woman barely even considers other women at all in her fantasies unless prompted to first, she probably isn't bisexual.
Yeah. I mean i've been celibate for more than 5 years now. But even then, when i'd go to WLW events. The married ones claimed to be bi and the divorced ones claimed to be lesbian. I won't say never (because arranged marriages and marital rape are things), but if you were married for a decade to a man, it's very hard for me to believe you are lesbian.
I'll believe that last one because the amount of women who had no idea gay could be a thing was in quite the high numbers before rise of the internet
but after the 2000s? naw
Women will be like "NEVER FORGET that I am STILL A BISEXUAL just because I have always dated men, am currently engaged/married to a man right now and am planning to stay in this relationship forever" ...and its like....what is the goal here and why are you sharing this on social media? So that other women know they can still shoot their shot later if you ever get divorced?? Lol
Yeah… I mean I am bisexual. My relationship is not. Any monogamous relationship I would have would be a hetero or homosexual one.
One of my first encounters with a woman like this was hearing some bisexual woman talking about her experience at a Pride event (this was over 10 years ago. So right at the start of Q/T colonizing Pride). She was LIVID that all the gays and lesbians at the event assumed she was a heterosexual ally just because she was a "cis woman married to a cis man". As if it was the obligation of all the gays & lesbians at Pride to play 20 questions with her before making the perfectly reasonable assumption that a heterosexual marriage is....heterosexual.
I'm pretty sure bisexual women who marry other women don't get offended if strangers assume they're lesbians. This only seems to happen with bi women who marry men. And it feels performative.
So performative lol. Meanwhile, the only time a bisexual man married to a woman might go out of his way to clarify that he is still bi would be on grindr.
Meanwhile, the only time a bisexual man married to a woman might go out of his way to clarify that he is still bi would be on grindr.
LOL facts.
Bi men don't weep about their identity the way bi women do. They just use grindr to cheat on their wives on the downlow 🤣
You’ve been lucky enough not to see bi men moan that they have it harder than bi women? They talk about it the way men in general talk about the male loneliness crisis. At this point this discourse just feels bi-woman hating to me lmao because I’ve definitely seen bi men moan to women about being judged (by women). So they complain they don’t get enough women because of their identity. (Though I can guarantee it’s their personality). But they still want the bi cred at the same time.
That’s the male entitlement. I personally don’t care about getting self-lauding gold-star lesbians to date me. Unlike a man I don’t want a relationship with resentment trailing behind us. But it’d be nice if they cut the biphobia.
Bi men are a huge STD risk and I will die on this hill. They can do their thing but in my opinion women should steer clear
The biggest cringe was on a subreddit for weddings. And one bisexual women who was gonna marry a man said how can she add her "queerness" into the wedding ceremony. People thankfully told her, the wedding is not about her sexuality, but the person she is marrying.
Weddings really bring out the worst in everyone. That’s beyond cringe and I’ve seen it before—a “bi” friend who dated a woman for a couple months after decades of heterosexuality incorporated the bi flag colors into her wedding bouquet. She married a man.
Why put bi in quotes. If she had sex with a woman she is not straight. Bisexual women who prefer men are not heterosexual or "spicy straight" as people say. Lets end this narrative that heterosexual women pursue relationships with women--- especially a couple of months. This board would never talk about a lesbian who had a relationship with a man for a couple of months.
This board would never talk about a lesbian who had a relationship with a man for a couple of months.
What do you mean by that? Do you mean that a lesbian who had a brief stint dating a man wouldn’t incite comment and would still be considered a lesbian? Because if that’s your point, it’s mine, too. I know more than one straight woman who briefly forayed into a homosexual relationship only to go back to being as straight as the grass is green…
Would you say a woman who had a months long romantic and sexual relationship with a man is a lesbian.
As a bisexual woman who was dumbfounded when her friend confessed her annoyance with her boyfriend for refuting her claim that their heterosexual relationship was “queer” because she is bisexual, I wholeheartedly agree. So dumb.
Well queer means anything nowadays so it makes sense. Air is queer. Water is queer. Crosswalks are queer. Story time is queer. Palestine is queer. Haircuts are queer. Not being like other girls is queer.
This message board? Queer. Did you know you're on a queer message board, and are now, by definition, queer? Just look at the muted shade of this purple. It's obviously butch. Your egg just cracked, baby.
The egg shortage is also queer. That's because Avian Flu is queer.
It may sound biphobic, but bisexuals have forgotten that the reason why they belong to the “gay”, “queer” or whatever they want to call it, is not precisely because they like people of the opposite sex, something that nowhere in the world has been banned as illegal, punishable by death, etc.
"Biphobia = when lesbians don't want to date bisexual women" is an argument I hear regularly lol.
I'll be honest. I almost certainly wouldn't date a bisexual man. Because - while this may be 100% my own insecurity - from what I've read online, I wouldn't be confident that I'd ever be enough for him to scratch his itch.
And being insecure in a relationship is not great for either person.
If I were bisexual myself, I'd probably understand it better and be fine about it.
Men will not say no to the body parts they fetishize I don’t think. I would not trust a bi man to stay loyal but I would trust a bi woman.
If that’s biphobic sign me up
sometimes I question what "biphobic" even means, like how. How do you stigmatize someone that's already attracted to both sexes
wouldn't whatever -phobia apply to them be mostly that of homophobia? because surely no one's heterophobic. like how even
the only thing I can think of is when people ask bisexuals in same-sex relationships why they didn't "choose to be normal" - when they can't help who they fall in love with, male or female.
I'm sure there's probably more but that's me being ignorant on bisexual matters ig
A B lot of bisexual people are accused of being promiscuous, or male partners will think they’re up for threesomes because they’re bi.
I think there are a lot of monosexual people, both gay and straight, who are absolutely horrified and disgusted by non-monosexuals. I have heard that specific disgust and horror expressed in very similar ways by both gay and straight people. I think that’s what biphobia is, along with the correlating beliefs like bisexuals can’t be monogamous, everyone who claims to be bi secretly just wants to sleep with men, etc.
Also, people will straight up claim bisexuality doesn't exist. A good portion of my family thinks that bisexuality doesn't exist. You're either gay or straight. My father has the dumbest view on homosexuality. He thinks that once a man engages in a homosexual act with a male, he's automatically just gay. I often ask people who say that bisexuality doesn't exist or gay people choose to be gay. "How do you know? Did you choose your sexuality?"
I’ve seen this but we also get this. “Everybody is a bit bi” or “sexuality is fluid” hurts lesbians. Monosexuality and bisexuality both exist and both are normal.
hmmm I see what you mean, I know in lesbian spaces particularly they have a fear/gripe of dating bisexual women who'll end up leaving for a man, or not being satisfied in the relationship because of the lack of male sexuality.
the "bisexuals can't be monogamous" thing seems to be mostly from porn mentalities though right? like "wow you swing both ways the more the merrier!" kind of threesome/orgy crap
I think some of it just comes from men who can’t fathom not having access to all the body parts they fetishize in one place. Like if I had a vagina and no boobs, and Jane had boobs and no vagina, a man would HAVE to have both and can’t fathom that you can just stick with one set of parts. It seems like a generalized symptom of objectification.
I know there are problems with that analogy. Please point them out but I did my best
hmmm I see what you mean, I know in lesbian spaces particularly they have a fear/gripe of dating bisexual women who'll end up leaving for a man, or not being satisfied in the relationship because of the lack of male sexuality.
From the lesbians I've known, this is a legitimate concern. That a bi woman will just "experiment" with a lesbian relationship and then move on and find a man when she gets the urge to marry and have kids (and introduce a significant other to her family)
If someone is "experimenting", they are not bisexual, they are bicurious. If you know you're bisexual, there's nothing to experiment with. You know it and you're just looking for a wlw relationship specifically.
The problem is also that many bisexuals who are supposedly secure in their sexuality are promoting what they say is the “bi-cycle”.
supposedly one day they have sudden and strange changes that make them want to be with someone of a different sex than their partner.
reddit is a cancer for everyone, but for many people it's one of the few ways to connect and it's a very bad impression to see bisexuals talking like that, for me it would be a horror.
Yeah I can't relate to that at all. I'm always attracted to both, happy with either so long as my partner is treating me well. That almost sounds like they're unhappy with their partner at times and so then fantastizie about a relationship with the other sex? But idk, I can't relate to that.
I'm a bisexual women whose first same sex relationship ended disasterously because she wasn't actually bisexual and I was just her experiment 🫠 so I understand completely where lesbians are coming from. So many women who are really heterosexual wear the bi label for the societal benefit. Lesbians shouldnt have to roll the dice on whether a self proclaimed bisexual woman is really same sex attracted or just experimenting.
If a partner left me for a MAN I don’t think I could ever recover. So I don’t blame anybody one bit for being upset at being burned by something like that.
Then the poster made some weird comment about how calling her relationship with a man a heterosexual relationship erased her "queerness." What does that mean?
It means she's annoyed you don't find her courageous and ultra cool.
Being straight comes with no society oppression points and just isn’t cool. So a lot of people who are in hetero relationships like to call themselves queer (not just those who are actually bi) so they’re not lumped in with the boring vanillas. It’s all kind of pathetic, really.
Oh god I know a woman that does this and it grinds my gears. She’s been in a heterosexual relationship with her husband since high school, but now she claims she’s queer because she cut her hair, dyed it green and goes by she/they. Just a ton of “not like other girls” nonsense.
She claims she has “masculine” energy and thus is magically now in a queer relationship and part of the LGBTQAI blah blah. 🙄🙄🙄🙄 Drives me up the wall with how shallow and stupid it is, not to mention just straight up regressive and insulting to other nonconforming women.
The straight women who claim they’re queer because they use she/they pronouns but are with a man. Or the straight women with a man who uses he/they pronouns. As if they’d know what it’s like to be homosexual. It’s so offensive but it’s us lesbians that are the bad guys. It’s insane.
If you are IN a hetero relationship, YOU are “het passing.” This means you are not facing discrimination on the basis of your orientation and (in my opinion) should keep your beak out of LB spaces.
I feel for bi women in het relationships the way I feel for someone having to start grocery shopping more and eating out less. There are real feelings associated with that but other people with actual problems don’t want or need to listen to them or help you process them.
(I’m one such bi woman and my husband likes to occasionally torment me by saying we are a “queer couple” because he’s heard me rant about this firsthand and knows how much I hate it. It’s another trademark of the Badly Behaved Bisexual that’s giving us all a terrible name.)
If you are IN a hetero relationship, YOU are “het passing.”
To be fair, bisexuals can still be assumed to be gay by others. It wouldn't stop some idiot on the street from yelling a slur based on appearance.
Yeah I guess if she looks super butch and her male partner is nowhere to be seen
Sometimes even if you're together, people don't think so.
My partner and I have a running joke because women will constantly flirt with him in front of me. No one has ever seen the two of us together and assumed we're a couple. Which doesn't bother me, it's just kind of hilarious at this point.
It kind of reminds me of how asexual people claim that they are discriminated against the same way as people in same-sex attracted relationships are.
I always found that silly. Asexuality isn't even a sexuality. It's the lack of one. The only things I got told after I lost interest in men was. "Well, you'll find your one eventually." People just want to be oppressed so badly.
While asexuals are not oppressed for being asexual, many women who are not interested in men do suffer from misogyny in cultures where marriage is seen as a woman's sole purpose and identity. But that's being oppressed as a woman, not as an asexual.
That is very true. Thankfully, It hasn't been much of an issue with my family. They are understanding, but they still always bring up the ole "You might change your mind" spiel. They do see my decision as selfless rather than call me selfish. It also helps that my siblings have children. If I was an only child, I'm sure there would be a lot more pressure on me to have kids.As years pass by, I become more fervent in my childfree and relationship free stance. It's gotten to the point were I can't even understand what my past self saw in men.
"Well, you'll find your one eventually."
No no but that is the worst oppression evar!! (Obligatory sarc)
It doesn’t help that asexual has been added to the LGB alphabet soup acronym that now encompasses all of humanity.
someone having to start grocery shopping more and eating out less
goddamn 👌
Seems like common sense to me. An individual can be bisexual, but if they're in an opposite-sex relationship, then it's heterosexual in nature.
I wonder why these women think their relationships are automatically "queer" or even different in any way from those of a straight woman with a man. Do they believe they have different types of sex? Different roles in the relationship? Orientation doesn't dictate that.
They will stress their relationships are less stereotypical. But honestly they think their "queerness" actually is relevant to their romances with men.
Sometimes it is relevant. When I've dated men after a long period of only dating women, it was like landing on an alien planet. The way society treats you, the expectations of his friends and family and coworkers, his approach to sex and emotional labor and gendered stereotypes - sometimes it's an adjustment. While het relationships can be egalitarian, society is not.
And even with a man, I'm still interested in WLW culture - movies, books, news, political actions. That part of me doesn't vanish because I've started dating a man and any male partner of mine will need to understand that without getting insecure. So it can be something to address, although I would never say it makes a het relationship "queer."
I think the only way a straight man would find it relevant would be if a bisexual woman was wanting to have threesomes with other women with him. But then a lot of straight women will do that to seem like "cool girls" regardless, and it certainly wouldn't have any effect on a monogamous relationship.
I'd be curious to know in what ways these women think their relationships are less stereotypical.
Less inequality. Which even if that is true-- that doesn't make it queer. It is offensive to say an equal heterosexual relationship is queer. Straight people are not inherently stupid or incapable to treating each other equally. It is like saying someone is not a woman because they are so smart/strong/etc.
Exactly. Some people are very conscious about avoiding gender roles and stereotypes. It doesn't make us "queer." It makes us interested in equality.
It's the cred. I saw this too back in the aughts when it was super cool to do lesbian kissing in front of guys who would cheer it. All of the "cred" of being a minority without any of the actually marginalization, stigma or oppression.
Also, she's not like other girls.
Completely agree with you as a bisexual woman married to a man.
Me too.
I met my husband as a teen. I feel like if I had waited longer to marry I would have ended up with a woman...
Same. If I had just waited I would have been febfem for sure. But I didn’t like being single and ended up dating a keeper!
My husband is pretty great and I often feel like I’m selfishly hoarding him when a straight woman would have needed him more. Then I go touch grass because that’s not how human beings or relationships work.
Similar story here. If I discovered radical feminism much earlier I think I'd be febfem. None of the girls/women I liked were interested in me, and I've been with my now-husband since I was 20.
Oh boy. I'm bisexual and in a straight relationship, and that point rarely ever comes up unless the topic is specifically about something related to that. My friends know. It's not something I feel the need to post online. I don't say straight relationship when I tell anyone that I'm in one, in the same way that I didn't specify when I was in any of the same-sex ones. I also just never particularly felt defined by my sexuality in that way. I know it can illicit an adverse reaction, but the term "heart not parts" was how I used to feel when I was younger, many many years ago, when all it covered was how I could feel attracted in equal amounts to guys or girls.
I think some people just like to show off and seem interesting. It adds some color to their rather bland personality. I mean that also about people that are already qUiRkY and/or "cool" already, but they need to add the extra flair that can't really be verified or disputed.
I don't believe that the new version of "queer" means anything. It's just spicy straight, and that's becoming boring, too.
"hearts not parts" actually applies contextually for bisexuals, though. It's the most succinct way to explain to people who don't understand why, if you "could choose", that you wouldn't "choose to be" in a "normal" heterosexual relationship, if you were in a same sex one. You can't help who you fall in love with, and your pool is both. I have a feeling it's one of those things the TQ just took out of context and ran away with, again, and now it's lost all of its originally intended meaning.
I've thought about this often. The whole concept of bisexuality goes out the window when a bisexual person stops being single. It's a difficult concept to partner with when bi means 2 and mono means 1. I am a bisexual woman in a monogamous relationship with a man. My sexuality means nothing since I am not available to anyone except my partner therefore labels are rejected.
Eh I disagree with this. Your orientation is your orientation. You don't stop being attracted to women when you're bisexual just because you're currently with a man. You dont stop being attracted to men just because youre currently with a woman. Thats the entire concept of bisexuality... Your orientation doesn't change. Im not straight when I'm with a man and gay when I'm with a woman. I'm always bisexual. But if im with a man, my relationship is heterosexual and if I'm with a woman, my relationship is homosexual. I, however, am still bisexual either way.
We are saying the same thing tho...
I don't think we are, but i could be misunderstanding. This line:
The whole concept of bisexuality goes out the window when a bisexual person stops being single.
In particular is what threw me off. It doesn't really, its still who you are and it's still your orientation.
There's a difference between what you are and what you're relationship is. I guess to me, it sounded like to you, its purely based on the relationship you're in. But hey, if i misunderstood, then were on the same page either way. I know that my being bisexual hasn't stopped being important to me to some degree regardless of what relationship I'm in, so it doesn't just go out the window. That doesn't mean i go around announcing it to anyone at anytime lol. That is indeed cringey and pointless. It is not my identity but it is a part of who I am.
We are saying the same thing but I see how I could have been misinterpreted, I was being hyperbolic. What I am saying is that monogamy and bisexuality aren't quite compatible. Yes, a person's orientation will remain the same but it doesn't/shouldn't mean anything once a person is in a monogamous relationship.
What else is there to gain by labelling yourself bisexual if you are in a monogamous relationship?
I mean, why does there need to be something to gain? One’s sexual orientation is often part of someone’s identity. Why should they just drop it because of their current relationship?
It shouldn't but it often does. Most men and women I've been with were very concerned with my orientation and it definitely affected my relationship with them.
Personally, i don't see what there is to gain at all either way escape maybe a girlfriend if a wlw didn't know you were bi lol. I don't label myself bisexual to gain anything. It's just a part of who I am.
And it actually does come up periodically. Just a few weeks ago, I was talking to some newer friends about past relationships. I've been with men and women but im currently with a man. I'm not interested in announcing that I'm bi to people most of the time because most people are, ime, a least somewhat biphobic. But suddenly, I was in a situation where I'm in a straight relationship, but want to tell a story about a time I was dating a woman. (A specific anecdote, not just that I dated a woman btw). So what do I do? Lie and change her name to pretend she was a man? Or be honest and discuss my relationships with women candidly, knowing full well these people probably aren't aware I'm bi, might be biphobic and/or may very well think im some annoying spicy straight trying to gain "cred"? I don't want to lie, i want to be able to be myself and be open. I'm not gaining anything by being honest and being open that I've had relationships with both men and women. My bisexuality is relevant here yet I'm in a straight relationship.
Haha, you made me realize that I too brought up my bisexuality just the other day for essentially the same purpose of conversation that you explained.
I think I am sensitive to this because there was a recent experience in my adult life where I was asked to use my bisexuality as an attachment to my art. I can't get too specific without doxxing myself but essentially the Queers wanted me to join their collective by using my bisexuality as an attachment to my art and it sent me into an identity crisis that I felt like a complete imposter in. This incompatibility had me arrive at my current thought process that I don't need/want people to know because it essentially has nothing to do with who I am.
Yeah, exactly. And the fact that you’re still bi while in a relationship can lead to some complicated feelings that monos do not care to hear about or understand. Best kept among each other.
Don't worry, I don't talk to straight women about being bisexual. Yall are often very homophobic and biphobic.
I’m literally bi but ok
That's wild considering how you talk about bi women in every thread about bi women.
Can you elaborate on what you disagree with? I’m not sure what the issue is. I had a comment here about biphobia which is a real thing
Looking back, I think i misinterpreted your original comment to essentially mean that bi women should shut up about our relationships because no one cares or wants to hear it, but now I don't think that's how you meant it. So I apologize for being rude. I saw the comment about biphobia and appreciate you pointing out that it's not made up nonsense.
I do still feel like some of your comments can be surprisingly dismissive of the things bi women deal with, like your longer one where you basically said that bi women with issues in heterosexual relationships don't have real problems. Idk a ton about you, idk you at all, so I have no idea what life experiences you have. Maybe you've hard largely positive experiences. Maybe you've never been with a man that treated you poorly for your orientation. But things like that often come off like bi women don't have our own unique difficulties. And we do, even in het relationships.
I recognize that some of these things come from irritation with spicy straights or just downright asshole bi women, much like the woman described in OPs post. But I personally find myself getting irritated with it because it almost always leads to actual biphobic comments from monosexuals. I guess I'm just absolutely exhausted from hearing everyone left and right shit on bi women. Its so ridiculously common. But I am also exhausted from straight women and shitty bi women constantly giving us a bad name. It feels like a lose lose situation no matter what. And I feel a way when I see anyone adding fuel to that already shitty fire. I mean, we already saw plenty of the comments in this thread devolve into shitting on bi women in general or acting like biphobia is made up. It's tiresome and offensive.
I completely agree with your almost entire comment actually.
First of all the comment that was unclear was actually more in the other way—less that we should shut up and more that I don’t really want or need input from monos on what we’re dealing with. It’s not relevant to them and they tend to get rude. I have always wished there were a place to have these “grocery shopping” conversations amongst each other because when I’ve tried to do it in mixed company here the biphobic comments have been appalling.
There seems to be this assumption that if a bi woman is sharing her story or lamenting an issue she’s having, she’s claiming she is the most oppressed person on the planet and has it worse than lesbians. I am not sure why this is universally assumed but it is easier to have those conversations without those constant accusations. Hence keep these conversations to ourselves. And I think we should because…
…I have had negative experiences as a bi woman in het relationships! Beyond the classic bi erasure, I’ve dealt with insecure men, fetishizing men, all who made me feel like shit, yay. As a formerly religious person I’ve had to deal with hiding my identity from my family and community, of feeling like a pervert, of hating myself and being seriously repressed! I am happy in my het marriage but I know for a fact that if not for this toxic homophobic religious environment, I would not have ended up with a man, but I took the life path I did because I did not want to be ostracized from my family and then-community.
And I have had it easy too. Bisexual women report the highest levels of DV of any orientation.
Still, as a bihet most of us do not risk having slurs screamed at us or being physically attacked or correctively raped as far as I’m aware. We can be in genuine relationships without being stoned or persecuted. So I don’t think our problems are as bad as those of lesbians and can understand why they wouldn’t want to hear about it.
It seems like a win win to keep our problems among ourselves. The lesbians don’t have to hear it and we don’t have to hear what they are inevitably going to say about it.
The hate from both sides is exhausting. I try to be extremely “assume the best and give the benefit of the doubt” to lesbians because they are dealing with a lot and a lot of them have been burned by Badly Behaved Bisexuals.
Yeah, none of what i said is at all supposed to be like "we have it as bad as lesbians!" Or that we have it worse or anything like that. We have our own unique struggles to deal with and some privileges as well. Typically I'm not really bothered by anything lesbians are saying. At most, I've seen some lesbians be dismissive and clearly not understand what it's like to be a bi woman, but the vast majority of what I see that's genuinely biphobic tends to come from straight women, not lesbians. There are definitely bi women that treat lesbians negatively and its totally fair lesbians feel a way about that.
I agree that I generally prefer to just have conversations about my relationships and relationship issues with other bi women. I see what you're saying there now. Any genuinely bi woman I've ever met has had issues she's dealt with due to her orientation and it can indeed be difficult to talk about it. I'm not claiming to be the Most Oppressed when I just want to vent about a shitty thing that happened to me lol. I just want to be able to vent sometimes amongst people that understand! 🥲
Anyway. Thanks for responding back. Sorry for being snippety at first but im glad you replied and we ended up actually seeing pretty eye to eye on this, which is nice. Sometimes I feel a little defensive of us bi women due to the shit slinging, that's all. Doesn't mean the BBBs don't exist tho.
That’s fine, I totally get it. Thanks for the back and forth
? So straight people stop being straight when they find a partner, and gay people stop being gay? Because their sexuality becomes irrelevant to others when it’s monogamous.
You can't stop your orientation but how much impact should it have when monogamy means you aren't sexually available to anyone except your partner?
I get that gays and lesbians and bisexual people have been wrongly persecuted for their orientation but I wish we lived in a world where a person's sexuality was one of the most boring things to know about someone.
Sure. I personally grew up not being into "coming out" because the only person who really has to know is the person I decide to pursue. Everyone else can figure it through context or when I decide to mention it casually. I thought the dramatics around it were silly.
But that still doesn't erase the orientation nor bisexuality. People love to commodify and take literally every single thing to the extreme. But also... straight people don't stop being straight just because their in a relationship. In fact they're considered that they're expressing their straightness. There's all sorts of cultural and identity and community implications surrounding sexuality that still exist despite you not looking for a new partner.
Literally this. The minute you’re in a monogamous relationship as a bisexual, your sexuality’s irrelevant (at least, irrelevant to everyone else in the world)
I certainly don’t think bi women should call themselves lesbians, but to most of the world a partnered bi woman is either in a straight partnership or a gay one.
So bi women can’t identify as lesbians even when they’re in a lesbian relationship… because lesbians have their own unique and special experiences… but they also shouldn’t identify as bisexual.
At least be consistent. If lesbian women exist in an experience disparate from everyone else, then so do bisexual women. Bisexuality is a bizarre punching bag, either we’re too straight or we’re nothing. Lose lose either way.
But if people were consistent about the whole “can’t relate too different to lesbians” then fine, keep the same energy for bisexuals. They’re bi. No amount of straight couples parading around with the world queer and larping will change the meaning of bisexual, just like no amount of men pretending to be lesbians actually changes lesbianism.
Monosexuals sure do love to police bisexuality. Apparently they know best what we're allowed to say and do and feel.
Your sexuality might be irrelevant to YOU in a monogamous relationship but you cannot speak for anyone else. For many of us, our sexual orientation influences the books and movies we consume, the people we hang out with, the treatment we get from society, our workplaces, our families. There may be a sense of comfort and connection for us in LGB spaces if that's where our friends and history are.
I know a few older lesbians who no longer date and don't plan to. They're still lesbians, still enjoy going to lesbian events. It's not just about sex and romance.
What? You don’t actually think being a bi woman in a relationship with a man and reading/watching Carol or whatever is anything like being lesbian do you? Or that society would treat a bi woman in a relationship with a man the same they would treat a lesbian? Being a bisexual woman in a relationship with a man is nothing like being a single lesbian. I’ve defended this site against lesbophobia but I mighy be starting to see what people meant because you can’t possibly be trying to claim a bisexual woman in a relationship with a man and liking WLW media is anything like a lesbian.
Completely agree! I think even if you are bi , once you get into a het relationship, it doesn’t suddenly become queer- like how all these younger people say. You are just a bisexual person in a heterosexual relationship. People will not know you’re bi, unless you mention it or if you’ve been in a same sex relationship in the past and they knew you back then.
We also are lucky in the western world where we have a choice to be with who we want. There’s many bi women who choose to only date women, some will only date men etc. sometimes what we want changes over time too. I think who we date or our sexuality isn’t the most important thing about us. So I don’t really get entering into a het relationship and making bisexuality the most important aspect of the relationship.
I also don’t think biphobia exists as much as they say, and they are experiencing homophobia when in a same sex relationship. Because a bigot isn’t going to care if a bi person is in a het relationship but they will care if it’s a same sex relationship.
I can’t stand these spicy straight people, they make a mockery of the group they claim to belong to. How can they in good conscience tear down all the progress the previous LGB’s have made?
Bisexual women are more likely to be abused in their relationships than straight or gay women.
I'm so sick of these spicy "queer" straights and straight-relationship bisexual women that sometimes I think I genuinely lean bi-phobic.
Yes, sorry that you being a bisexual, in a relationship with a man, doesn't really enlighten us on anything because the world is already predominantly heterosexual. It's irrelevant unless the topic is also about attraction to women - because otherwise the "bi" part of being bisexual just doesn't factor in. A bisexual woman's experience with a man is going to be nearly exactly the same as a heterosexual woman's experience with a man except maybe you both can agree how hot a woman looks to you.
A school crush one time or fantasizing about kissing a woman once - idk what kind of bisexuality spectrum bullshit the orientation discourse is foisting down these days - but it seems ridiculous to expect that women with "1% bisexuality" will be able to relate to women who are "99% bisexual". Or whatever Kinsey scale bullshit percentage of how much men you like compared to female.
calling her relationship with a man a heterosexual relationship erased her "queerness."
It's all about labels. It's all about wanting to be part of the cool and trendy in crowd called the LGBTQIA2S+ that has SO MUCH support going for it right now because it immediately makes you invincible and oppressed. "Bisexual" isn't enough anymore - you need to be a QWEER BISEXUAL even though for all intents and purposes your relationship is going to be read as straight.
Because it's the same sex attraction that's "abnormal", that's been stigmatized for ages. But these women aren't in a same sex relationship, hell, we don't even know if they are attracted to the same sex, anyone can make anything up these days. But the same sex attraction stigmatization of being bisexual - they can latch on to that! That's how they'll become special! But it can't be straight bisexual, what's the use in that?
why do you care so much what your relationship as known as to others unless you're trying to make some kind of point. You're a bisexual in a heterosexual relationship, coolsies. No one cares. Unless you're thinking about leaving your man for another woman, bisexuality really doesn't matter here.
People aren't confused or concerned about finding out they can be attracted to the opposite sex.
signed, by someone fedup of the fucking label discourse in general
I’m embarrassed to admit it, but I thought I was bisexual until I gave up porn. I’m really wondering how many straight young women similarly believe they are bisexual due to porn rot. And it might be biphobic of me, but I really question bi-identifying women who has never had any sort of relationship with another woman, sexual or otherwise.
I do not at all understand how porn can make someone think they are bisexual. I used to watch it and it definitely influenced my sexuality to an extent (I am much healthier now having quit years ago), but before I found porn I knew what/who I wanted to see and that never changed during or after. Ever.
I get the sense that some people have a more “fluid” orientation and others don’t. I think all men are extremely fluid and will happily fuck whatever is available and convenient regardless of harm to themselves and others. I think some women may also be more fluid than others which leads to tremendous disconnects when we try to share our experiences.
Straight women who watch porn tend to watch “lesbian” porn because it is not as violent as straight or gay male pornography. If you’re a confused teenager who is constantly being exposed to a non-threatening form of sex, then yeah, it can kind of fuck you up. I didn’t have fantasies about being in a relationship with women but sex? Absolutely.
I can kind of understand it in the same vein consuming BL and yaoi makes women of various orientations think they're actually gay men (we have both T4T TIFs who only want other TIFs, TIFs who only want "cis" women, and "cis gay" chaser TIFs). Kind of. Then again porn does a number on the brain so who even knows if it's legitimate sexual orientation stuff or just porn being porn and hitting all that dopamine
I didn't know this was a thing. I wonder if some males are affected by it too.
TIMs are converted to faux bisexuality through sissy hypno porn. Regular straight men seem to prefer more POV or lesbian porn 🫠
Yeah, if a bi woman is going around announcing this kind of thing I assume she’s either
addicted to male validation and thereby contributing to the pornification of F/F love for the male gaze, ew and traitor
trying to do some polyamorous BS either for her own selfish gratification or again to please her local man, ew and traitor
struggling with her own shit to the point she’s failing to read the room; please find a therapist or a support group
some combination
None of these are good things and people like that are to be avoided
Or maybe, just maybe, this isn't "biphobia" and is just an opinion. One that many bi people might not like, one that you may feel strongly about, but one that does not equate to hate/fear/violence/literalgenocide.
I say this as a bi woman who is so fucking sick of the language creep and absolute need for everyone to be a victim.
But how can she be "special" if she's simply in a regular old straight vanilla relationship?!
As a bisexual woman, yes, I agree with this. I am dating a man so therefore it is a heterosexual relationship. I have dated women before. Unless someone asks, I do not tell them I am bi because it is irrelevant to the conversation. I will not step on wlw relationships by trying to force that label on me when it is currently not true.
Also, I rather not be involved with the "queer" community. The kind where is it just spicy straights and TIPs.
I, a bisexual woman in a committed, longtime relationship with a man, am always so baffled by this. My relationship is 100% heterosexual.
I know a straight guy who started labeling himself as queer because he was into being dominated and dated a polyamorous woman. So unique, so special.
it’s extremely stupid and annoying behaviour. if you’re a woman with a man, you’re in a heterosexual relationship regardless of your personal feelings around it. this should be common sense. your relationship being heterosexual doesn’t mean you are heterosexual.