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Bisexuals of Ovarit - does anyone else ever feel painfully, agonizingly out of place with other bi women?

My friend group is absolutely brimming with people who identify as bisexual, both male and female. But every person in that friend group is in a het relationship, and has never had a serious or sexual relationship with a same sex partner. Seriously, two of them have never even gone further than kissing a woman - and the woman they kissed was me, LOL.

I cannot relate to or "mesh" with my bi friends when it comes to relationship or sex talk at all (which, since we're all in our 20s and 30s, are pretty common conversation topics in our group). I don't know if it's because of my feminist leanings, or because I prefer women to men, but I just feel so out of place when we talk anything related to relationships or our sexualities.

They frequently talk about how they'd never date a woman because women are "too much drama" or "too difficult", they talk about how sex with a woman is "gross" or "weird", or how "receiving is okay but giving is icky". Conversations about the bi experience revolve, 24/7, around the agony of being mistaken as straight, or how much easier gays and lesbians have it, or "why are lesbians so mean to us?"

It has reached a point where I actively feel like a self hating bisexual lol because I just don't resonate with these women at all and am honestly trying to avoid making any new friendships with bi women. I even feel hesitant about getting in a relationship with a bi woman (all of my relationships with women have been with lesbians except for two).

Am I being biphobic? Am I an asshole for thinking these women are not actually bi? Are they just more "male aligned" because they aren't feminists? I'm asking honestly, because I don't want to be offensive, but I just feel very much "not at home" with my bi friends and it makes me feel guilty.

Bisexuals of Ovarit - does anyone else ever feel painfully, agonizingly out of place with other bi women? My friend group is absolutely brimming with people who identify as bisexual, both male and female. But every person in that friend group is in a het relationship, and has never had a serious or sexual relationship with a same sex partner. Seriously, two of them have never even gone further than kissing a woman - and the woman they kissed was me, LOL. I cannot relate to or "mesh" with my bi friends when it comes to relationship or sex talk at all (which, since we're all in our 20s and 30s, are pretty common conversation topics in our group). I don't know if it's because of my feminist leanings, or because I prefer women to men, but I just feel so out of place when we talk anything related to relationships or our sexualities. They frequently talk about how they'd never date a woman because women are "too much drama" or "too difficult", they talk about how sex with a woman is "gross" or "weird", or how "receiving is okay but giving is icky". Conversations about the bi experience revolve, 24/7, around the agony of being mistaken as straight, or how much easier gays and lesbians have it, or "why are lesbians so mean to us?" It has reached a point where I actively feel like a self hating bisexual lol because I just don't resonate with these women at all and am honestly trying to avoid making any new friendships with bi women. I even feel hesitant about getting in a relationship with a bi woman (all of my relationships with women have been with lesbians except for two). Am I being biphobic? Am I an asshole for thinking these women are not actually bi? Are they just more "male aligned" because they aren't feminists? I'm asking honestly, because I don't want to be offensive, but I just feel very much "not at home" with my bi friends and it makes me feel guilty.

69 comments

[–] [Deleted] 30 points Edited

Before I got to your last paragraph I had already decided to comment that your friends don’t sound bisexual.

Anyone can appreciate an attractive woman. If they’ve repulsed by sex acts with women they probably aren’t bi.

I don’t think you’re biphobic for having reservations based on past experiences. I also don’t think that all bisexual people are like that, but it’s not my place to tell you how to make friends or choose dates. Who you open yourself to is entirely up to you, no one has the right to set your boundaries except you.

Anyone can appreciate an attractive woman. If they’ve repulsed by sex acts with women they probably aren’t bi.

I hope you don’t mind me going off topic, but this line brought up something I’ve been wondering for a while as I’ve been trying to figure out my sexuality. I can’t seem to find an answer anywhere else as everything is woke central now.

OP’s friends’ description of how they feel about women describes well how I feel about men. I can “appreciate” when one is attractive, as you described it, but I don’t like the idea of anything sexual and every time I’ve tried to date a man it’s stopped short because I don’t want to do anything other than talk. This is confusing to me since I see a lot of lesbians talk online about finding all men ugly. I feel actively attracted to women in a way I don’t to men. Could this mean I’m not bisexual?

[–] Raea 9 points Edited

You're woman focused. I'm the same way. I have the capacity to be in a relationship with a man in a physical way but I have no attraction feeling to the vast majority of men I have encountered in my life. Women on the other hand I become attracted to very easily. I'm still a bisexual person because I have enjoyed physical relationships with both sexes but I definitely consider myself more woman focused.

Edit: I a word, spelling is hard. Grammar is worse.

Thanks for replying. I don’t feel particularly interested in a physical relationship with a man and have never been in one.

I guess my question boils down to what sexual attraction means. Is it recognizing that someone is good looking, or is it more active than that? When asking these questions I feel like everyone assumes I know what sexual attraction is when the concept confuses me in this respect, perhaps because I have ASD.

[–] [Deleted] 6 points Edited

It may be.

I find a lot of male behavior repellent, but I don’t find them repulsive in the way most lesbians describe. I’ve enjoyed sex with men. It’s why I know for sure I’m not a lesbian.

It could be possible that you haven’t met the right man yet. Just because you have standards doesn’t make you homosexual. If you feel repulsed by the idea of sex with a man, any man, you may not be into men that way.

See, this is what confuses me. Sometimes I’m repulsed by the idea but sometimes it’s just “meh.” More neutral. The idea definitely doesn’t turn me on, but it’s not always repulsive. It might be repulsive or turn me on in practice instead of being neutral, I don’t know. All I know is the neutrality has prevented me from going there in practice.

Is that enough to be bisexual? Or do I actively have to want to be with men? It seems like whenever I try and figure this out the only options are “attracted=bi” or “repulsed=lesbian” with no neutral option. That’s kind of what I was getting at with not finding all men ugly. I guess an analogy might be that attraction is the on switch of a lamp, repulsion is the off switch, but my experience is like it not being plugged in at all.

[–] radbadbi [OP] 4 points Edited

I can relate to this to some extent. I am attracted to men - but, more in theory than practice. Sexually, I don't "click" with men the way I do with women. I enjoy making out with men or fooling around a little, but I don't really have much interest in "going all the way" - it's not like that with women for me, for whatever reason. Even when I THINK I'm up for that, once I'm actually in the situation and things start progressing in that direction, I always get immediately turned off and cut things short because I feel a little bit repulsed lol. I've frustrated the shit out of a lot of guys.

[–] [Deleted] 3 points Edited

I've thought of something that could help. Let's say, try to imagine the perfect man or perfect woman materializing in front of you, and you can have a relationship with either of them strictly on your own terms, no less. Who would you pick for a long-term relationship or a marriage? Are you inclined to either or is choosing not acceptable? Like, both would be make good partners to you?

There is something wise that I once heard about orientation. That it is who you would be with at the worst, and not necessarily at their best. Like for example, no matter how shit men are, a straight women is still going to desire a relationship with him, as that's who she is wired in her attraction towards. She is also going to reject a woman no matter good that woman is, as she has no attraction towards someone of her own gender. It's also the same with lesbians. No matter how gutter women are, she is still going to be there, as that's how her attraction is wired. And no matter how good a man is, it's still not an option, as there is no attraction period.

Something like that. What do you think?

And no matter how good a man is, it's still not an option, as there is no attraction period.

Thanks, I relate to this. I would choose the woman. And if I were to have a relationship with a man "on my own terms," it would involve little to no sex.

I guess I know what the answer likely is, but I'm having some trouble accepting it for whatever reason. I think I'm struggling to get this picture out of my head of what my life is supposed to look like, largely because accepting this would involve my dating pool rapidly shrinking and I'm having to come to terms with the idea of being single for a very long time yet, if not forever. I also share a lot more interests with men on average, so that might be making it more difficult to accept. I always thought if I just found the right man finally everything would work out because we'd have so much in common.

[–] stern-as-steel 26 points Edited

As a bisexual woman in a committed relationship with another bisexual woman...they don’t sound bisexual. They also just sound really juvenile. Too dramatic? Too icky? The fuck? They sound like prepubescent boys.

No wonder you don’t resonate with them! Actions speak louder than words and it sounds like they haven’t got any actions to speak of, whereas you do. I don’t think you come off as an asshole or phobic or anything like that at all.

You are not biphobic. Your lived experiences are valid. Personally I don't think those women are by because of the vagina repulsion you mentioned. They don't sound like woman lovers

[–] radbadbi [OP] 7 points Edited

I generally agree with you, but I guess I worry that it will be seen as offensive because... well, even online when I see bi women talking, the majority either haven't been with a woman before, or talk about how much better it is to be with a man, or talk about how icky being with a woman is. I've had so many other bi women tell me I like women "too much" to be bi and that I must be a lesbian when the reality is just I like women a lot, and they don't seem to like women at all.

Is this in radfem heavy spaces or more liberal/gendery? I think "bi" is the old "enby" for a lot of women. Kissing a pretty girl to titillate a man isn't unheard of.

Definitely more libfem type spaces. The only radfem spaces I'm active in are here and tumblr. Indeed, there is the stereotype of the girl who kisses girls to titillate men and I used to think it was mostly overstated but... in my friend group, sometimes I think it's realer than I previously estimated.

Where are you seeing bi women talk about how icky it is to be with a woman? If I saw that, I'd feel very comfortable telling them it sounds like they're straight.

Don't worry about causing offense - point out the elephant in the room.

I know what you're talking about, most women I've met say they're bi but don't seem to have a legitimate attraction towards women, all aspects of women. I theorize that a lot of "bisexual" women have gay tendencies due to porn consumption. Virtually all porn focuses on the appearance and theatrical reactions of women, and never focuses on the man's appearance, outside of racist black-on-white scenes. So if a woman consumes porn they would subconsciously associate orgasm with the heavy focus on women's bodies, faces, and noises, and not the man who is mostly offscreen and generally unattractive.

That paired with the current climate of straight bad "queer" cool leads to many women who would normally be heterosexual having bisexual tendencies.

I have trouble getting close to women due to childhood abuse from women, but I still have a genuine romantic attraction to them, and have before I discovered porn (and still have since quitting for years). Even with this situation I also noticed the same thing you have happening with "bisexual" women. I don't think it's biphobic to bring up your experience. It would be biphobic to say that all bisexual women are like that or that being bisexual has some inherent fakeness. I don't think it would be wrong to have a level of wariness, but only if you have the same level of openness to her being potentially genuine.

[–] radbadbi [OP] 6 points Edited

I have definitely theorized something similar! People always say "Women are all bisexual" or whatever. I remember when I looked into one of the studies about that, it basically showed that they analyzed which parts of the brain responded to stimuli - specifically, how women's brains responded to nude or partially nude images of women vs how men responded to similar images of other men. It was something like "sex" parts of the brain responded when straight women saw these images of other women, while straight men did not have a similar response to nude men.

Bizarrely (to me, anyway) they came to the conclusion that this meant the women were sexually attracted to the women in the photos - but to me, it just shows that we're conditioned to associate nude female bodies with sex, whereas nude male bodies are seen as neutral. In my opinion, straight women see a nude woman and immediately think of sex and porn because we're all constantly bombarded with pornified imagery of female bodies.

I think I know exactly what you're talking about, I'll have to go look for the study again to reread it. Thank you for making me think of it!

I totally agree with your conclusion. I also find it really weird how a lot of studies on attraction have little no reference on the attraction being manufactured by porn or even just beauty standards in nonpornographic media. It's a big thing that influences attraction and literally rewires people's brains to associate sex with things not typical or not be capable of sexual arousal for normal things like foreplay.

When I came out everyone told me I was "clearly a lesbian" and not bi so I went with that a long time - my partner was female, what did it matter? Now my partner is male and people are pretty confused but obviously - my family is super happy. My co-workers are happy. Everyone is happy about it. Seriously, "lesbians have it easier"?

Can I say "fuck that!"

I can't see inside someone's mind, I'll take the "I'm bi" at face value, but, what does it matter if you're in a heterosexual relationship and aren't polyamourous or in an open relationship?

We're still in a state where "lesbians are written for male viewers" and "gay men written for women viewers" when it comes to books, tv, and movies. I prefer the characters to be there, but I recognize who the real target audience is too.

[–] ratherbecomes 11 points Edited

If they think sex with women is gross, it really sounds like they're straight. Not saying every SSA woman has to like the same things in women, but if the thought of being with another woman is so revolting you're probably not into them sexually. Bi seems to be seen as GayLite, so it's the easiest to identify into and keep your OSA as well. It's very annoying, having straight women do this and getting blamed for it.

(I'm not gonna deny some bi women are predominantly OSA and say these things. But a good amount have to be straight, right? If you don't wanna really BE with a woman??)

I feel like some women think finding another women pretty means it's always sexual attraction, when really as women we're primed to see even other women first in terms of physical appearance. There's also the sentiment I heard among my friends of "women are just prettier in general". Which is a whole other topic to get into altogether.

Couple things I'm thinking. First off, sounds like there may be some internalized misogyny there (ex, 'women are too dramatic'.)

Second, sounds like several of them may not actually be bi ('sex with women is gross, weird, icky'). They sound like either bi questioning, or straight but claiming to be bi to be 'cool' (because unfortunately the whole LGBTQ thing is now seen by a lot of people as the trendy sh*t these days, and identifying as bisexual even if you're straight is a way some people get a foot in the door, so to speak).

Bi questioning, as I understand it, is a phase a lot of people go through. The reason I identify myself as bi (even though I've never been in any sort of relationship, hetero or homosexual) is because... well, I'm sexually attracted to both men and women. My bi friends explain it the same way; when we ahem fantasize, our partners are sometimes male, sometimes female. We're turned on either way, and don't find the idea of receiving or reciprocating gross or weird.

I have had some friends/acquaintances believe themselves to be bi. One turned out to be a lesbian, most of the others were straight, but they only really came to the realization when it came down to sex. The lesbian found some men attractive, but when she thought about actually doing the do with a penis, she was grossed out. Same with the friends who turned out to be straight; they found some members of the same sex attractive, but when it came to the idea of actually having sex with said person they were weirded out.

From my own experience, everyone finds people of both sexes attractive. But if they're weirded or grossed out by the idea of getting down and dirty with one sex and not the other, odds are they're not bi.

Also, a LOT of bisexuals have a preference for one sex or the other (for example, I'm more male (hetero) focused). The number of bi people I've met who don't have a perceivable preference I could probably count on the fingers of one hand.

[–] notyourfetish 7 points Edited

They frequently talk about how they'd never date a woman because women are "too much drama" or "too difficult", they talk about how sex with a woman is "gross" or "weird", or how "receiving is okay but giving is icky".

Lol . ..n These women are not bisexuals. They are pornsick straight women cosplaying as bi. They aren't really attracted to women. They objectify other women. To them, other women are about as useful as sex toys (aka objects used for their pleasure), but we aren't people they can actually feel sexual attraction to or fall in love with.

Find some real bisexuals and get away from them.

conversations about the bi experience revolve, 24/7, around the agony of being mistaken as straight, or how much easier gays and lesbians have it, or "why are lesbians so mean to us?"

They objectify other women, dismiss the very real struggles of homosexuals, and then wonder why lesbians want nothing to do with them. . . . Lack of self-awareness is staggering. And THIS is why I'm so "mean" to bisexual women (aka I avoid them).

Seriously, two of them have never even gone further than kissing a woman - and the woman they kissed was me, LOL.

LMAO. What a baller

Things can be fluid. I describe myself as 'low key bi'. I'm attracted to women and men on a roughly 20/80 basis. I've had sex with women in the past and enjoyed it but not had a relationship with a woman. Possibly due to the ratio of attraction and a general lack of opportunity (I'm mono and tend to have long term relationships, after a phase of more casual stuff, I really don't bother now).

Bi can be a weird location. There's often a thing about not being bi enough. Just this week I had a lesbian friend suggest I was straight. It's like, yes, I'm in a hetro relationship, but that does not negate my attraction to women? It felt a bit like when a straight guy accuses you of being a lesbian as you don't want to f**k them!

I tend not to make a deal out of the bi thing as it does feel a bit pointless to. However at it's simplest level, I find both sexes attractive and have enjoyed the sex I've had with women. I'm not claiming any special status as I'm well aware I get most of the benefits of being perceived a hetro. It only ever seems to get mentioned when I'm with lesbian friends! Never really in any other circles.

The only being into recieving rather than giving is odd. Not everyone is into oral, but giving pleasure to your partner is part of the process.

Almost all of my friends are bisexual (male and female) but we honestly don't talk too much about being bi and it isn't really the basis of our friendships or even relevant... I guess except for those of us who've flirted / briefly dated but no one ever ended up serious and now we're all just platonic friends.

I think basing friendships on sexuality is weird.

As for dating, well, dating is inherently discriminatory and saying "no" is never problematic in any setting. If someone makes you feel ""biphobic"" for not wanting to date them then they are being just like the TRAs with their cotton ceiling rhetoric and you just need to get out of there.

Oh, it's definitely not the basis of our friendship for sure. I was friends with all of these people before they ever identified as anything other than straight. Seemingly everyone in my friend group has decided to come out as bi or pan in the last 2 years lol.

In the case of your friends it does sound like a trendiness thing. If they aren't actually sexually attracted to at least one person of the same sex... they aren't bi.

I agree with the other comment, they seem like trend-followers. Unfortunately it's fashionable to be "queer" these days.

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