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FutureBreedMachineOctober 30, 2024
Sweet, I hope they are right. I love terfs and swerfs ❤️
I am still a little bit uneasy because she did actively support decriminalizing prostitution in 2019 but im hoping she's back to her original Nordic model supporting self.
A little bit of a side note but I was reading the axios article about this and saw this tidbit:
In 2019, Rep. Ayanna Pressley (D-Mass.) proposed a resolution calling for all states to removed criminal and civil penalties for sex workers. "Sex work is work," Pressley said. "In fact, sex work is often the only form of work for certain marginalized communities who are most vulnerable to housing and employment discrimination."
I can't believe Pressley thinks we need to decriminalize prostitution (i wish they'd just say what they mean, most forms of "sex work" are already perfectly legal and have lots and lots of women constantly being exploited there already but I digress) because it's the "only form of work for certain marginalized communities".
So... there's women who struggle to find jobs to make ends meet so we should legalize letting men use them rather than... shit idk, literally anything else to help them out of that awful awful situation?? Just legalize raping them and call it a day? Never considered a social program or something? Something to help with discrimination instead? Anything?? It is just beyond me that these words came out of a supposedly progressive woman's mouth and she didn't think for a moment what an absolutely fucked up thing that is to think.
Anyway, I very much appreciate a pro Harris post where there's been way too much trump defending. Or just trying to act like trump isnt a horrible human being. There's a lot of misogyny being slung at Harris all over the place and I'm tired.
It's pretty low-key racist/sexist/other flavor of intolerant to imply that some groups of people's only worth is to be raped.
You can teach anyone to bus tables, cook fast food, sweep and clean. And some people can become managers or develop other skills through jobs, or save money to go to school.
To just wave your hand and say "some people are just unhireable, let's condemn them to be rape toys for men" is disgusting.
[Deleted]October 31, 2024
✊♀ Could not agree more with this:
Anyway, I very much appreciate a pro Harris post where there's been way too much trump defending. Or just trying to act like trump isnt a horrible human being. There's a lot of misogyny being slung at Harris all over the place and I'm tired.
[Deleted]October 31, 2024
Did my best, but I am tapping out. The outrageous things said, just wow. Sure, yeah KH should come out as full Terf to the world bc so many other women are brave--and protected--enough to do that. Hell, Jonah Wheeler broke ranks on child butchery and needed a police-fucking escort!
ProxyMusicOctober 31, 2024
For balance and a bigger picture view, I think it's important to take note of the fact that in her bid for POTUS, Kamala Harris has received official endorsements, or ringing statements of support, from most of the leading and most powerful "trans rights" organizations in the USA. As POTUS, she is going to be under enormous pressure not to abandon the causes she has championed in the past.
Some examples of the endorsements she's received:
Advocates for Trans Equality Endorses Vice President Kamala Harris for President
JULY 22, 2024 - Today, Advocates for Trans Equality (A4TE) announced its endorsement of Vice President Kamala Harris for the presidency. This endorsement comes after President Biden announced on Sunday afternoon that he would end his reelection campaign. A4TE Executive Director Rodrigo Heng-Lehtinen released the following statement:
“Advocates for Trans Equality (A4TE) is proud to announce our endorsement of Vice President Kamala Harris for the presidency. Since taking office as our nation’s first woman of color Vice President, Harris has demonstrated an unwavering commitment to advancing the well-being of the transgender community.
“Throughout her vice presidency, Kamala Harris has collaborated with President Biden to lay a foundation for strong support of transgender Americans. The Biden-Harris administration has been the most pro-equality in our nation’s history, implementing significant measures since their inauguration.
“Vice President Kamala Harris has been a formidable ally for LGBTQI+ equality. Her efforts span decades, beginning with her leadership in San Francisco against hate crimes to her work aiming to abolish the so-called gay and transgender ‘panic defense’ in California. Harris has consistently supported marriage equality and continued her advocacy as Vice President, demonstrating her support for the LGBTQI+ community.
“A Harris Administration would not only uphold but also expand upon the protections for transgender Americans established by the Biden Administration. Her leadership promises to fortify and enhance the efforts to address and meet the needs of transgender people, ensuring continued progress in our nation's history of civil rights.
Human Rights Campaign Joins President Biden in Endorsing Kamala Harris for President
July 21, 2024
The Human Rights Campaign endorses the tough, formidable, and experienced Vice President Kamala Harris for president.
Vice President Kamala Harris is a trailblazer and has been a champion for LGBTQ+ equality for decades: from leading the fight in San Francisco against hate crimes and her work in California to end the so-called gay and transgender “panic defense” to her early support for marriage equality and her leadership serving as our Vice President.
The Human Rights Campaign could not be prouder to endorse Vice President Kamala Harris and commit to channeling our resources and supporters to work to elect the first Black and South Asian woman president of the United States.”
More from the Human Rights Campaign, July 24:
Unity: More Than 1,100 LGBTQ+ Leaders, Celebrities, and Influencers Representing Millions Sign Letter in Support of Vice President Kamala Harris
July 24, 2024
Today, thousands of leaders, celebrities, and influencers released a letter announcing their support for Vice President Kamala Harris’ bid for the White House. Signers include celebrity voices George Takei, Sophia Bush, Ashlyn Harris, Wilson Cruz, Brian Michael Smith, Colman Domingo, Raven-Symoné, and Frankie Grande, United States Senator Tammy Baldwin, Congresspeople Ritchie Torres, Mark Takano, and Becca Balint, and Delaware State Senator Sarah McBride, and community leaders Jim Obergefell and Judy Shepard.
Collectively, the leaders represent millions of LGBTQ+ and allied constituents and followers across the country, a powerful coalescence around the candidate who, if elected, would be the most pro-equality President in American history.
As U.S. Senator, Vice President Harris cosponsored the Equality Act, defended access to healthcare under the Affordable Care Act, and frequently spoke out against violence against trans women of color.
The letter of support for Vice President Harris... was organized by Advocate for Transgender Equality, Alice B Toklas LGBTQ Democratic Club, Equality California, the Human Rights Campaign, LGBTQ Victory Fund, LPAC, the National LGBTQ Task Force, and others...
On August 13, the ACLU - Chase Strangio's employer and one of the most powerful orgs working in the courts for a broad and extreme "trans rights" agenda - endorsed Harris with a lengthy statement. Some excerpts:
The Biden-Harris administration’s record of improving protections for LGBTQ people suggests that Kamala Harris would be a champion for the community if elected.
From the earliest days of her service in the Senate, Harris consistently made clear her support for the Equality Act — legislation to provide LGBTQ people with explicit, comprehensive protection against discrimination – and, as vice president, has consistently urged Congress to pass the legislation.
when a new presidential administration takes office in January 2025, the LGBTQ community will still be confronting a dismal policy landscape in about half the country where trans adolescents — and increasingly trans adults — face unlawful discrimination. In many states, trans people cannot access gender-affirming medical care; are unable to use restrooms in schools and other government buildings; find that updating gender markers on identity documents is challenging or impossible; and cannot fully participate in society as their authentic selves.
To help a future Harris-Walz administration pass comprehensive federal nondiscrimination protections for LGBTQ people, we will continue to push Congress to reform the Senate filibuster and pass pro-equality legislation, like the Equality Act. The Biden-Harris administration has championed the Equality Act, but a vocal anti-LGBTQ minority has used the filibuster to delay its passage through Congress. The ACLU is prepared to use public pressure — including aggressive lobbying and grassroots mobilization — to compel Congress to finally act.
one of the most significant and powerful ways for a Harris-Walz administration to support the needs of trans people is to issue an executive order on day one directing federal agencies to examine ways that they can affirmatively enhance access to gender-affirming care in federally funded programs. An executive order like this would provide clear direction to federal agencies, and do so in a way that will serve the goal of comprehensively addressing this issue.
Additionally, we expect Harris to work with the Justice Department’s Civil Rights Division to use litigation to protect trans people across the country from discriminatory state laws. The ACLU will continue this work in communities across the country by engaging our activists to join the fight for LGBTQ equality in their home states.
https://www.aclu.org/news/lgbtq-rights/why-a-harris-presidency-promises-hope-for-lgbtq-rights
GLAAD has lots of pro-Harris material on various parts of its website:
OP , I think it’s only fair to point out that the Them article you’ve posted in your OP is from 2020, more than 4 years ago, so it’s not exactly current.
Moreover, that Them article is only one of a number of articles, interviews, and documents posted online that provide info about Harris’ position and actions regarding the trans agenda over the years.
In more recent articles, other TRAs voice views that are considerably different to the views of the TRAs in that Them piece, and the TIM who wrote it.
For example, in an article in SLATE published in late July, the obviously pro-trans authors who wrote the piece and a leading trans activist who has known and worked with Harris since since circa 2000 said they see Harris as sincerely and strongly committed to "trans rights" due to her deep empathy for the marginalized and oppressed and her desire to use the law to help them out.
The Slate article also gives an overview of Harris’ views and actions regarding “trans” going back 20 years, including the events when she was CA Attorney General in 2014-15 that you and I interpret in totally opposite ways.
Some relevant excerpts:
Kamala Harris’ Surprising Record on Trans Rights
Some leftists don’t see the vice president as one of them. But she’s been very progressive on this issue for 20 years.
BY S.I. ROSENBAUM AND JOSEPHINE RIESMAN - JULY 29, 20241:05 PM
As Kamala Harris rose to national prominence over the years, lawyer and lifelong LGBT advocate Shannon Minter felt a growing sense of alarm. Not about Harris’ success—but about what was being said about her by Minter’s fellow transgender activists and writers.
“Harris’s work has contributed to some of the most violent conditions faced by trans people,” wrote ACLU lawyer Chase Strangio in 2019, during Harris’ presidential primary run. Harris “has a concerning record of endangering our community’s most marginalized members,” a Them magazine article warn
“Absurd,” Minter told Slate. “It’s just wrong. It is wrong.”
Minter should know. He became famous for facing off against Kenneth Starr in California’s Supreme Court, arguing against Prop 8—the ballot initiative that would have banned same-sex marriage in the state—in 2009. But he was there in 2006 when Harris, not yet a national figure, drew together a coalition of cops, prosecutors, academics, and activists to talk about how to protect the human rights of trans people in criminal courts.
“It was historic,” recalled Minter. “She just genuinely cared about the issue.”
But the criticism Harris has faced hasn’t died. Even now, many transgender activists and writers are skeptical that Harris really has their back. (It didn’t help that the Biden administration came out against surgery for trans minors in late June, before reversing course this month.)
In a way, the skepticism is understandable for a politician viewed with suspicion by many leftists for her “tough-on-crime” years as California’s attorney general and her selection as vice president to proud moderate Joe Biden.
But her record is clear: Harris has been a strong advocate and progressive for transgender rights for 20 years. And she started this work long before it entered the center of national politics.
In the mid-2000s, trans rights were barely on the radar of most politicians. In 2004, Hillary Clinton was still tepid on marriage equality, pronouncing marriage a “sacred bond between a man and a woman” from the Senate floor.
That same year, Minter sat in a California courtroom as lawyers argued that a teenager’s transgender status had justified her killing. Two of the men who murdered 17-year-old Gwen Araujo after realizing she was trans ended up being convicted only of second-degree murder; two others pleaded no contest to lesser charges.
As the Araujo case made its way through the courts, another prosecutor, San Francisco’s then–District Attorney Kamala Harris, was under attack from the local police. An officer had been killed, and Harris refused to seek the death penalty for his killer. Cop unions were, predictably, furious; one leader accused Harris of being in an “ivory tower” and having “no clue to the reality of the street.” Her own political mentor, Sen. Dianne Feinstein, also publicly pressured Harris to back down.
While Harris stood her ground, she was also following the Araujo case. It wasn’t in Harris’ jurisdiction, and she had no personal stake. But she already had a record of looking out for the LGBTQ+ community: She had performed marriage rites for gay couples right after such ceremonies began in California, started a hate crimes unit dedicated to protecting queer teenagers, and even spoke at her city’s third annual Trans March, where she was honored as having “championed transgender rights.”
So in July of 2006, after Araujo’s killers had been sentenced, Harris convened a two-day national conference to discuss ways to counter the “gay panic” defense, drawing together law enforcement personnel, academics, activists, and even the prosecutor and defense lawyers from the Araujo case.
Minter was there. He recalls being “stunned” that Harris went out of her way to address not just “gay panic” defenses in general but specifically their deployment against trans victims.
The pursuit of equal justice for trans people is a sustained throughline in the presumptive nominee’s career. Yet when Harris launched her first presidential bid, Strangio and other trans critics described her record as mixed at best, dangerous at worst.
In part, their criticisms stem simply from the fact that Harris was a part of the carceral state. “I will never trust prosecutors whose job it is to send people to cages,” Strangio wrote in his critique.
It’s true that Harris is far from a prison abolitionist. She will be unlikely to satisfy arch-leftists, and, if elected, will surely do things the radicals wouldn’t. But that doesn’t mean she’s motivated by a desire to oppress.
“I always got the impression with [Harris] that she saw the law as a tool to defend vulnerable people,” Minter said. “She wanted to use the power of the state’s criminal law to help people who are preyed upon and harmed.
As a reform-minded prosecutor, Harris has found herself at odds with both law enforcement, as when she defied the police union in San Francisco—and also progressives, as when, in 2016, then–California Attorney General Harris was instrumental in the effort to take down Backpage.com, a classified-ads website that was widely used by sex workers as a (relatively) safe and straightforward way to find and screen clients. “Raking in millions of dollars from the trafficking and exploitation of vulnerable victims is outrageous, despicable and illegal,” Harris said then. “Backpage and its executives purposefully and unlawfully designed Backpage to be the world’s top online brothel.”
This hostility to sex work, too, was a continuing theme in her career. Once in the Senate, she also supported FOSTA/SESTA, a law that has been devastating for other online tools that sex workers use.
While Harris has more recently stated that she would be in favor of decriminalizing sex work, there’s no denying how much her past actions endangered sex workers. And because a disproportionate number of trans people do that work, “a public official’s policies regarding sex work can be understood as an extension of their policies regarding the LGBTQ+ community,” wrote Them’s Wren Sanders. Strangio, too, used Harris’ record on sex work to claim that Harris was no trans ally.
More problematic, however, is an incident in 2015, when Harris signed off on her office’s appeal of a court order that had directed the state to provide gender-affirmation surgery for a trans inmate named Michelle-Lael Norsworthy. “It remains to be seen whether the action will be politically harmful for Harris, who has a reputation for being a champion of LGBT rights,” the Washington Blade commented at the time.
In 2019, confronted by a reporter about the 2015 anti-trans briefs from her office, Harris said the state’s policy of denying surgery to transgender incarcerated people predated her tenure, and that the brief she’d signed didn’t reflect her own views on the subject.
“There are, unfortunately, situations that occurred where my clients took positions that were contrary to my beliefs,” she said. “The bottom line is the buck stops with me, and I take full responsibility for what my office did.”
She further claimed that she worked “behind the scenes” to change the state’s policy—and indeed, the policy did change later that same year.
But on trans issues, her record is surprisingly consistent, especially compared to other politicians. For Trump and the GOP, trans people are at best a convenient culture-war scapegoat, while others in the party seem to genuinely feel disgust for anyone who doesn’t conform to their idea of the gender binary. For moderates such as Biden, trans people may be an exotic minority whose interests are niche.
But for Harris, her repeated actions across nearly two decades of her career indicate that the humanity and rights of trans people, and the need to protect those rights, are all a firm part of her moral worldview—neither an afterthought nor a fringe interest.
“She’s not just an ally—she’s a longtime, steadfast, committed, and well-informed ally,” Minter said. “She has repeatedly used her position and influence to help build more institutional and public support for our community. She has constantly strived to bring other people along with her and to create more allies for us—and that is the best kind of ally to have.”
[Deleted]October 31, 2024
OCTOBER 24, 2024 https://www.them.us/story/democrats-anti-trans-ads-donald-trump-kamala-harris-op-ed
In fairness, Walz broke from that trend earlier this month, when he called out GOP leaders for “demonizing” trans people in a podcast appearance. But when Harris was called on to directly address trans issues in two TV interviews over the past week, she, too, engaged with Trump’s attack ads on his own terms. Asked by NBC’s Hallie Jackson to specifically outline her feelings on gender-affirming care, Harris would only respond that “we should follow the law,” referring to Trump’s claims that she supports “transgender operations on illegal aliens that are in prison.”
As ACLU attorney Chase Strangio explained, U.S. law does require that anyone in state or federal custody receive all necessary medical care, including gender-affirming care. But it’s not reassuring that Harris could only repeat her strict adherence to the law, rather than offer any sort of principled position in favor of trans medical rights — and in letting Trump set the tone, Harris has offered no defense against her opponent’s promise to ban such medical care altogether. If the law of the land changed, no longer demanding that imprisoned people receive medical care, would Harris withhold that basic human right? In a campaign that rests heavily on Harris’ law enforcement background, her evasiveness is little comfort against the far-right storm.
New polling released on Thursday by Data for Progress found that a majority of voters — including a plurality of independents — supported pro-trans candidates, thought anti-trans campaign ads this year were “mean spirited and out of hand,” and believed the government should stay out of trans people’s healthcare decisions. Yet Democrats continually seem to underestimate the electoral support for trans issues — and in failing to show up publicly for us, they risk losing that “pro-LGBTQ+” street cred altogether.
Harris and her party are far too willing to invoke the threat of Republican violence to demand support, while actively *cozying up to anti-trans conservatives like Liz Cheney *and allowing conservatives to set the national tone on trans issues. At best, our rights as trans people are treated as a political liability, an albatross Democrats dare not drape around their necks...
But you didn't mention or link to that article in your OP! In the OP, you linked to and quoted from only one article, which is clearly dated August 14, 2020:
Unpacking Kamala Harris's Record on Trans and Sex Work Issues
From denying affirming healthcare to a trans inmate to barring forums sex workers used to protect themselves, the former “top cop” has a concerning record of endangering our community’s most marginalized members.
BY WREN SANDERS
August 14, 2020
Yet you presented that one article from more than 4 years ago as though it's current news reflective of what's happening today, describing/referring to it and the info it contained in the present tense:
While the LGB have only glowing things to say about her, esp her early defense of gay marriage, the theybes are unhappy with KH.
For all the accusations to the opposite, THEM states:
I felt it would be good to hear what the TRAs are saying about her too.
Starting a thread in which one single solitary article that was published by a niche TRA outlet more than four years ago is presented as proof that "the theybes are unhappy with KH" today and as though it shows "what the TRAs are saying" now is extremely misleading - and you know it.
Given that you and I are two of the oldest, most experienced and most knowledgable feminist women on this site, I think we both have a duty to uphold really high standards in the way we present information, handle source material and make our arguments.
twinklebarbieOctober 30, 2024
This is a silver lining for sure, but I still don’t trust her though. Thanks for sharing OP.
RedmageOctober 31, 2024
Who is posting pro-R things here? Lol
This is interesting. Glad to hear she's anti sex work and has given some push back on trans.
Do you know the years of some of this (especially denying sex reassignment)? I'm wondering if it's pre-2020 or 2019 or so, when things really heated up.
[Deleted]October 31, 2024
there was an article from a highly questionable source funded by a billionaire who backs Trump. It spread conspiracy theory level stuff to sway voters against KH. Another overit said Trump is the "lesser evil". So yeah, this is what I have been fighting. God forbid we feel hopeful about a Black woman president with a record against prostitution and even knows what the Nordic Model is.
LilianHOctober 31, 2024
That may be what she believes, but will she have any actual power once president or just a puppet like Biden was? I think if she becomes president the agenda will continue to be pushed. Of course, I think that will happen if Trump is president as well, because those in positions of power will just push ahead regardless of what he does or says.
Trans didn't go away under the first Trump admin. If anything, it gained power.
[Deleted]October 31, 2024
an even-handed response. Thank you. Yes, surgeries happened under him too. I posted this info from Snopes but it was ignored. What he will do for women's right is recorded history that only some of us around here seem to care about at all.
[Deleted]November 2, 2024
Well the TRAs do NOT think she will push trans ahead. Anyone who scares Chase Strangio of the ACLU is a friend of mine!
NovemberinthechairOctober 31, 2024
[Deleted]October 31, 2024
``In effect, providing gender-supporting care in federal detention facilities, including surgery, was already the policy by the time this claim began to spread. In fact, these policies have been in place since at least 2016, according to the BOP.
In 2022, a district court affirmed this policy by ruling that a federal inmate should receive gender-reassignment surgery. In 2023, the U.S. Supreme Court allowed an appeal to stand that ruled gender dysphoria could be included in the Americans with Disabilities Act.
In an interview on CNN at the end of August 2024, Harris outlined some of ways she changed her policy proposals, but she also added that her "values have not changed." As of this writing, the campaign hadn't said whether she maintained her support of giving trans inmates access to gender-affirming care, including surgery, only that "that questionnaire is not what she is proposing or running on," the Harris campaign Communications Director Michael Tyler said on Fox News on Sept. 10, 2024.
In 2019, Vice President Kamala Harris did express support for a policy that would give access to trans people who depend on state-funded health care — including inmates and detained immigrants — to gender-affirming care, which includes surgery. Harris and her campaign have declined to say whether she still supported it in 2024. However, it has been the policy in federal prisons since at least 2016, according to Bureau of Federal Prisons' guidance issued in 2016 and updated in 2022. Both President Donald Trump and President Joe Biden have maintained it. The policy follows the medical recommendations of every major medical association in the U.S. In 2022, a court ordered the first gender-affirming surgery for a trans federal inmate, affirming this long-standing policy. In 2023, the U.S. Supreme Court allowed an appeal to stand that ruled gender dysphoria could be included in the Americans with Disabilities Act.
[Deleted]November 2, 2024
https://www.out.com/news-opinion/2019/2/04/kamala-harris-lgbtq-trans-prison The ACLU says otherwise.
So, instead of focusing on the tragedy of so many trans people going into sex work (likely out of desperation and poverty) and suffering the dangerous consequences of it, they want to instead whine about how officials like Harris are transphobic because they shut down Backpage.
These people are fucking crazy. These activists have no right to cry about "trans genocide" when they celebrate and encourage trans people going into a line of "work" where they're more likely to get murdered on the job than a cop or a soldier
A line of work they deny spreads AIDS though TiPs have the highest rate of contraction--BY FAR--than any other demographic.
Facts are transphobic