Before you go ahead, did anything happen to her, so she just doesn't have headspace for this kind of thing any more? Triggering her isn't going to convert her.
No nothing happened to her, I think she slowly started not agreeing with the left over the last 10 years and just decided to ignore it all. Also, everyone else in our family are all in on anything the left says. So she was actually the first of our family members to separate herself from the craziness lol
I still agree with a lot on the left - like hello, universal health care and green new deal and stop the mass production of guns!!!! - but it can feel disenchanting to see your tribe lose their way on other things.
I feel like I am living in crazy land! My dad is terrified that I am going to become a conservative and we were arguing about all of this and I just lost it! I havenât changed my beliefs, the left has gone so far out in left field, and Iâm the one who sounds like a lunatic telling them what is going on. My dad didnât even understand that a TW = male and TM = female and had never heard of a gender clinic. And he is the one who is watching the news all of the time, his favorite show is The View and his favorite thing is to force my trump loving Uncle to watch it every morning haha
It sounds like you are in a hurry to change her mind but it might not be possible to change her thinking overnight.
Before I peaked someone tried to peak me with the story about Chris Chan and his mother. It didn't work because she was really angry and jumped right in and I had no idea what she was talking about because I hadn't heard anything about it before so I was super confused.
Seeing peaking someone as a high stakes thing that you have to do ASAP might be less effective than calmly and casually bringing up specific well chosen examples. It also might be something that maybe takes time. Try and think of it being a two way conversation, it will be hard if you talk at her and try to bring her round to your way of thinking. If she doesn't agree with you try not to get angry or upset keep it as a respectful adult interaction.
There also isn't one thing that will peak everyone. For some people it's the violent transvestites, or sports, or transing children and what is crossing a line to you might not be a step too far in someone else's mind. I wouldn't bring up AGPs as it's really unpleasant to talk about fetishes and its a pretty divisive angle.
Is there a subtle way you can find out how much she has heard and what she thinks? She might not have paid much attention but maybe she has also heard things that have disturbed her or brought up questions.
Don't information bomb, there is so many different things you could talk about but try and make it simple and stick to one topic. In my opinion focusing on transing children makes sense because even if someone doesn't care much about women's sports or women's specaces, every reasonable person cares about child protection, especially mothers.
The lack of strong scientific evidence, the damage caused by unlicensed off label use of substances like puberty blockers (medication that is otherwise used to treat cancer patients and castrate sex offenders) and cross sex hormones. The fact that the initial aims of the Dutch protocol when transing children was to make them pass better as adults to make them happier (which it didn't). The very high likelyhood that GNC children will grow out of it if watchful waiting is employed (and many of these kids will grow up to be gay) and the suicide rate is incorrect. And the fact that many countries outside the US such as Europe are reversing their practices on children.
If it's easier to watch something than read something maybe I Am Jazz as its a reality TV show rather than a political think piece. I don't know if you ushally watch reality TV together or if this choice would seem out of character though? Maybe you could send her a clip like 'I have been watching this TV show recently and its really something else'. Perhaps the mad goodbye to penis party clip or the the clips about Jazz's surgery and medical problems?
If you haven't watch it before this show is basically just a child abuse documentary and a good example of how transition leads to a happy life is such a lie.
Thank you for such thoughtful advice! I may have rushed in typing out this post but I should clarify that I am not looking to info dump all of this on her. I more want to have articles, books, short videos that I can sporadically share with her. She is only going to entertain me for short periods of time haha. I should probably add more context and will edit my post to include this but - I am a 36 yo mother of 2 and my mom is 71, she is more of the mind state that if its not affecting you personally why do you care and why are you worrying about it. She is also more of a uptight/serious person and wants strong factual evidence for anything.
I was having a conversation with her last night and asked her what her thoughts on surrogacy ( I am adopted ) and we did agree at the end of the discussion that any form of paid surrogacy opens the door for exploitation etc. I was able to some how segue into telling her about how our home state passed a "conversion therapy ban" and the new policy to allow male inmates to be housed with female inmates.
Its just such a different experience talking to her about these things because in a way she is already peaked she is more sticking her head in the sand and pretending like its not happening. So in return she has no clue about what has happened with women's rights.
So, right now I think I am going to stick to the transing of children and invasion of women's spaces. That seems to be the best path in getting her to engage. thank you again I appreciate your advice so much!
I'll also say that at that age, she may just be tired and have a larger, more historical perspective on the world and how humans can believe a lot of crap and there's not a lot of us can do to change it rapidly.
I agree that at her age she is tired and just doesnât see the point. And Iâm not trying to get her to become an activist again like when she was in college. But I am trying to just get it on her mind so she might share some info with her friends in her retirement neighborhood, who may then spread the info around and little by little more people are hearing about all of this.
I disagree a bit with Jazz because I think you need to be peaked to see the child abuse and gaslighting in the show...otherwise, it follows common reality tropes meant to pull on your heartstrings, with accompanying music that messes w/ people's heads in an emotionally charged way.
Lea Thomas standing next to women swimmers is FAR more powerful than some of his fluff pieces in places like Sports Illustrated that used soft lighting.
I don't know it's really hard to image anyone being able to watch it without seeing the open abuse. The mom chasing him round with a diallator and fat shaming him when he comfort eats through his misery. The surgical complications that he goes through. Transing him as a very young child because he played with his sisters toys and liked mermaids.
If you don't follow women's sports I think its hard to see how widespread it's become. If you aren't a big sports fan I think it is easier to minimize. There is also something kind of absurd about men like Will Thomas. Even though the situation is serious sometimes when you see the size difference it makes you want to laugh.
I might be biased though because even though I know women deserve their own sports I am not interested in sports at all as a general topic. I never thought about life as an athlete, training, sponsorships and scholarships before this.
I agree. Getting overly passionate and worked up only turns people off to your viewpoints. It works best when you just carefully and methodically explain over time and/or show real world examples.
Thereâs no one way as it highly depends on the kind of person youâre talking to, how theyâre related to you, and how deeply theyâve dug in. The only consistent advice is not to overwhelm them; theyâll just shut down.
Personally I find that things written and said by TIPs, especially AGP TIMs to be the best natural peaking material. Think Hunter from the euphoria show, the biker dude who claimed he was a biological female because he identifies as female and is âmade of biological stuffâ etc.
Horrifying surgery pictures are a close second but based on how youâve described your mom I donât recommend this at all.
Detransitioners speaking are also great I think. There was that one woman who spoke to the senate or house I think recently. If you can find a good clip of her speech, I think thatâs great. Itâs best to let the TIPs and the detransitioners speak for themselves and let your mom do the rest.
A photo of Will Thomas on the podium next to women swimmers?
Or a photo of the guy with his crotch showing under the skin-tight dress after he won the city council seat reserved for a woman by local law in Brooklyn?
Men in womenâs sports.
Most people peak because they have something happen in their life. Other than that, the most obvious to anyone except TRAs is âmen in womenâs sportsâ.
I see value in talking about events from the vantage point of the âaverage personââthat being the hypothetical person who is just catching on to what is happening and is seeing it all through a pre-2010 lens.
So letâs say trans in sports comes up in conversation. If your mother expresses a view that indicates sheâs torn, come back with, âwell, people are complaining because they see athletic authorities letting boys and men opt into female sports based only on their feelings, which goes against the whole point of having single-sex sports in the first place. I agree with them that this isnât fair.â
If restrooms and locker rooms come up, same thing. âPeople are concerned about just letting anyone at anytime use the restroom of their choosing. That goes against the whole point of having toilets reserved just for womenâsâ needs. And why should we make it easier for perverted men to perv on women when they are relieving themselves and undressed? People are just not buying the idea that this is right.â
If the subject is trans medicine in kids. âPeople are starting to realize that medically transitioning children is basically spaying and neutering them like animals just so they better mimic the opposite sex. The average person is never going to be on board with that, and thatâs where the backlash is coming from.â
If your mom denies that people are informed enough to draw the conclusions they have, then thatâs where you need to be ready with cites.
I think this approach could influence anyone who has been fence straddling the issue for a while, playing the âboth sidesâ game to rationalize their reluctance to stake a real position, but is secretly doubtful this waffling is justifiable. Helping them hear how ridiculous trans demands are when reframed by the âaverage personâ could be a jolt of much needed common sense.
Thank you for your advice! I have been slowly bringing up things in conversation but last night was the first time she actually engaged with me on this topic for more than 30 seconds lol. I think my best approach is finding articles, studies, etc that I can share with her and she cannot argue the source. She was also in the medical field her whole career so anything health related will definitely be of interest to her.
I have found great success in discussing this issue with my own mother by framing it through 3 lenses:
I try not to blast her with information or articles. Like another commenter said, a slow drip-feed of comments on topics already being discussed is far more effective and less confrontational than the most well-researched, well-intentioned pulpit sermons. I have seen her begin to understand the reality more and more over time.
If your mother is the kind to prefer strong factual evidence, I would suggest having an arsenal of factual evidence on hand for if any of your more casual statements pique her interest.
The fact that most "transwomen" these days are ugly straight men with a fetish can get women paying attention. Most people still think TIMs are hyperfeminine gay men.
Even as a peaked GC woman, I still don't really care about most HSTS TIMs since they're generally not the ones who are a danger to women. All AGPs are psycho to women, especially lesbians.
Like others say, it may just take time. It did for my mum, and I'm terminally impatient so you can imagine how much I tried to convince her.
Ive Had tremendous success peaking people with information on the following:
gender fluids: lots of people will "be kind", so if they feel a man is genuinely distresses and actually trying, he should be allowed in the women's spaces. But often people don't know about gender fluids, men who want to be women today, then men, then women, then both. Lots of people find that flippant and disrespectful. Ive peaked two people with this knowledge
autogynephilia: this is what peaked me so I keep trying it but not as successfully, sadly. Most people seem to plain not believe it.
penises: this is how I peaked most people. Did you know that male transgenders are 85% straight, and 95% bepenised? A "be kind" will be open to penisfree men in their spaces, but a hetero penis man? Only the most delulu wokes are in favor of this
children: they're chemically and physically castrating children and cutting healthy breasts off of 13 year old girls. Ive Been very successful with this one
female sports: mostly peaks men ironically, extra bonus for males with daughters
Good luck!!!
I donât think that people disbelieve autogynophilia exists; I think many of them are so uncomfortable with their discomfort about acknowledging that itâs real, that they will bury their feelings or turn around and attack the messenger for opening their eyes.
I think that's mostly the case with men, they really don't want to think about other men's sexuality at all. But ive argued with a lot of women about this and found it almost impossible to make them understand. They will always go back to "but they're probably gay and feminine and really distressed đ„ș". I think a lot of women cannot fathom that so many men would do something so atrocious for a sexual fetish. I would have never thought it myself before I saw the cold hard numbers. I too thought they were all penisless charming gay men who love women.
I'd suggest to send her something from a mainstream source she already knows and trusts that's short and highlights something simple such as â the Dutch protocol wasn't built on solid science; there was no control group.
Much of this stuff is so crazy that people simply don't believe it. If it comes from rad fem sources, they think it is propaganda and not true. Find whatever she already cares about, whether that is children, sports, or violent threats made at rallies where TRAs stage counter protests.
I was planning on sending her stuff regarding the Dutch protocol and all the other medical atrocities since she was in the medical field her whole career. I informed her last night about the use of âpuberty blockersâ on children and then explained that puberty blockers are Lupron, which her husband takes for his prostate cancer. So I have started lay the foundation and hope in the coming months I can start sharing more of the medical side of this with her.
That Dutch documentary was very short, very down-to-Earth and, ultimately, very neutral and balanced: https://www.genderclinicnews.com/p/in-the-dark You can probably find it directly on YouTube as well. What I liked about it is that there are no activists from our side, as such, besides ones who fall on our side solely because they are doctors who are concerned about the quality of the science and the observations they made while practicing.
I think there is a part 2 now but I can't find it without subtitles.
Show her the Lea Thomas picture of him standing next to the real winners. Visually striking and an easy in. The AGP stuff can sound conspiratorial, so you have to lead with something mainstreamâand thatâs sports. Keep bringing up sports stories so she can see itâs a consistent problem. Then lean in with other issues (but definitely save AGP for lastâlet her see that thereâs a sexual element on her own before ever bringing AGP up).
Does she like Katha Pollit from The Nation? I think Pollit is peaked.
My mom loves Katha Pollitt! Has she written anything lately about it?
I might be your mom's age, too. I'm mid-50s and have teen and young adult daughters - I've been reading Pollitt since the early 90s - my favorite essay was one where she makes her kids do house chores and she said she gets more communication and critical thinking from them when they are pushing a vacuum. I LOVED it!!!
Not directly, indirectly, absolutely. She was on Twitter the other day complaining why the MSM wasn't picking up the story of WDI being physically assaulted in Portland. She had a Nation essay that tiptoed near the edge of peak.
I have successfully broken through to about a dozen women. Two of them are my own kids who are adults and deeply entrenched in social groups riddled with them/thems and TIPs.
I go about changing minds by dispassionately making a brief comment on a current event. When I wake up in the morning I peruse ovarit and Reduxx and select stories I can summarize quickly. I donât give my sources, but I will say âGoogle x and read about itâ.
I will point out that biological males can never understand why women need private spaces and that itâs unfair to expect women to shoulder this burden. I point out rapes in prisons. And I point out story after story of omg another TIM disguising a deviant sexual fetish with trans bs. I donât say it in an inflammatory way and I use their pronouns so I donât tip them off that Iâm a raging TERF. âItâs really weird how so many men in prison who transition are sex offenders. Doesnât that seem weird?â I just want to come off as sensible and even tempered lol.
It works. Itâs a tiny drip drip drip in the background. This is exactly how social media brainwashed everyone. Slowly and constantly.
When Iâm in public and hear anything trans related I also add small comments so others know Iâm not a TRA. Like Iâll say just simply, âthatâs fucked upâ or âwomen shouldnât have to deal with thisâ or âdonât you think itâs weird that weâre all being asked to play along with someoneâs mental illness?â I do get a little spicy if itâs people Iâll never see again. I call it planting seeds of doubt.
Once other women read the room and see more and more of us not going along with it, it causes them to begin to question things more.
Your approach is beautiful. chef's kiss
Exactly how I peaked my daughter! Slow dripfeed over several years.