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"The Middle East will never know peace because Middle Easterners do not want peace. It is as simple as that."
Unpopular but true opinion, especially the men in those countries. A lot of women, I'm sure, do desire peace but have little power to try to make it happen.
It is a fact that many people in the Middle East think a majority Jewish country among them is an abomination and needs to be destroyed. Their ideal is not peaceful coexistence but annihilation. They’ve already forced out their own Jewish and Christian populations. And this includes women - see the scenes of camps such as where Shamima Begum was/is living - women are just an fanatical and were complicit in the atrocities against Yazidis.
I can't support because I know that the lions share of that aid will go to moids. The very same moids who caused the conflict to begin with. Women and children only!
The plight of African women who go to work in the middle east is not good. Do not be guilted by these people. The plight of any woman in the middle east is not good.
Good article. I only would have added “and the horse they rode in on.”
I am white but I thought the online behavior towards black women was outrageous.
Yes, white women have been guilt-tripped but you should have seen the nonsense directed at black women.
Even in the apology video that Palestinian woman claimed that black liberation and Palestinian liberation were “deeply intertwined.” That is an outrageous claim and she should apologize for making it.
But BLM, Angela Davis, even Malcolm X & SNCC in the past have stated the same sort of thing as "that black liberation and Palestinian liberation were “deeply intertwined.". This is not a new stance & it didn't originate with the Palestinians.
https://www.npr.org/2021/06/07/1003872848/the-complicated-history-behind-blms-solidarity-with-the-pro-palestinian-movement "What we're seeing right now is nothing new," says Thomas, who leads a local chapter of the decentralized movement for Black lives that echoes prior advocacy for Palestinian rights by the Black Panther Party and Angela Davis."
Many of these thought leaders contributed much to black liberation, and I certainly would never say otherwise. However, like all thinkers, they had some flaws. They have had huge problems with paranoid antisemitism and have treated Islam and Arabs with kid gloves for decades.
The result is, Palestinians have benefited from this "solidarity" for decades while black people in America have not. I absolutely understand why some black activists online are no longer donating to Palestinian orgs in favor of exclusively black ones that help people in the US, Haiti, Congo, and Sudan.
I also understand why Jewish thought leaders and activists, who for years have been very meek about the antisemitism of black thought leaders, might be done with their allyship, too.
It's a bit sad. Allyship is no longer a thing, done, kaput.
Very depressing.
But the author of the article is correct- black women shouldn't mule for populations that hate them.
Black women shouldn't be allies to people who do fuck all for them.
I know that’s true but it’s the harassment and expectation from other leftists. They just demand we support them and even harass our elders. I’m mad about the attitude the activists have towards us.
It is an outrageous claim. I only come to Ovarit so I haven’t seen the current insanity because I try to avoid at least some of the ugly insanity that is the internet.
Even in the apology video that Palestinian woman claimed that black liberation and Palestinian liberation were “deeply intertwined.” That is an outrageous claim and she should apologize for making it.
Which Palestinian woman are you talking about?
It's been making the rounds on Twitter. One who went viral for her rant against a black woman live apologized later. But it was a highly flawed apology. Here it is:
https://x.com/TheZodiacHeir/status/1823772128077873194
Another thing I'm seeing- both sides are accusing each other of only providing allyship because it's trendy. I mean, trendiness is a problem in leftist causes, absolutely. But I think part of it is, there's no natural allyship between Palestinians and black Americans. They're not necessarily natural enemies, but no, their causes don't align. They don't have a shared, overlapping history. The liberation of one won't really benefit the other. Any allyship is based on personal conviction, and that could get complicated later as we're seeing now.
In Angela Davis own words as to how they are linked & aligned & how that has been part of activism for a long time: https://hammerandhope.org/article/angela-davis-palestinians-gaza
An excerpt:"At a time of growing global solidarity with Third World struggles, all of the groups I worked with — the Communist Party, the Black Panther Party, and the Los Angeles chapter of the Student Nonviolent Coordinating Committee (SNCC) — were absolutely clear about their solidarity with Palestine."
Yeah, again, that's PALESTINIANS benefiting. I know they've been collecting allyship from leftist groups for a long time. But what they've done for anyone besides themselves is still a bit of a mystery to me.
Perhaps they're not in a position to help others and are complete dependents. That's fine. But that's all the more reason to be showing gratitude, not barking orders at black women.
Wonder how many Islamic countries have felt compelled to donate to any of the nations attacked by their muslim terrorists.
Probably similar to the number of Syrian refugees the wealthy gulf states took in even though they are all in the Ummah together apparently
I get where she's coming from, but famous white women have certainly been harassed over this issue. Taylor Swift immediately comes to mind. I don't keep up but there have been obnoxious pieces published about it. Apparently, as a famous woman, she has to lend her support to everything.
They’re asking black women in particular to vote against their own interests. Not just as women, but as Black Americans. With a blatant tone of “you owe us this.” It’s really outrageous.
Even in her apology, the Palestinian American woman said that black liberation and Palestinian liberation have always been deeply intertwined.
Excuse me? What have Palestinians ever done for black Americans? I’m not saying that they should have, or even could have. But how dare she claim that. Muslim Palestinians had to be forced by outside military powers to stop enslaving people. Including Africans. Palestinians have been the beneficiaries of allyship, not the other way around.
They have absolutely no right, none, to demand black women lower their quality of life just to show solidarity. What good would that even do?
Jill Stein is not going to happen. It’s basically just a vote for Trump. So I don’t even know what Gaza activists want from Harris voters. Seriously, if Harris loses, what do they think they’re going to get? She’s way more likely to show sympathy for Gaza than Trump is.
It’s not that I don’t care about Palestinians. This is awful. But Hamas started a war they can’t win. They won’t return the hostages and they won’t dissolve. (A replacement organization would sprout up). Why should black women fuck up their vote on behalf of people that won’t work with reality?
I've noticed kind of the new trend of activism is that "allyship" amounts to being a Giving Tree, there is no sense of reciprocity, and women are expected to be the givers. If a woman of any race or color hustled for Palestine or any number of causes, she doesn't have the right to expect them to give a shit when she asks them to put aside their rights to support a prochoice candidate, for instance.
All non-white people are a monolith without their own unique issues and struggles, I guess. I support them on a human level, but Arabs aren't "black" in any American sense, so Idk what solidarity they'd feel with black Americans other than being not-white. They have an entirely different culture from African-Americans, but then I'm white so what do I know. Black Americans definitely don't owe muslim Arabs, who enslaved black people too, if one really wants to go there.
During Hamas' invasion into Israel last October, they slaughtered a random Tanzanian student for temporarily existing in Israel. They also slaughtered and kidnapped multiple Thai students.
Hamas said they "didn't kill any civilians", they only killed "settlers". So a "settler" is any non-Arab who breathes air in the landmass they lay claim to. This seems a lot like deadly Arab-supremacism/ nationalism to me.
It's therefore probable that their (Hamas + supporters) view of African-Americans would be rather unfavourable.
It's therefore probable that their (Hamas + supporters) view of African-Americans would be rather unfavourable.
Many Arabs are super racist against Black people. They just don't talk about it when recruiting dipshit western liberals to the Palestine cause
Not like Israelis, that love black jews to the point of giving sterilizing shots to their women.
No one claimed that Israelis have never been racist or done bad things. But many Arab countries are still enslaving Africans. And the only reason those Ethiopians had to move to Israel to begin with is because the Muslims in Ethiopia kept murdering them
If you’re going to claim things like that, you should provide evidence.
It's important to note that they only stopped slave trading because the British forced them to, through military means. Even then, wherever the British couldn't reach, Arabs continued slave trading. They're still doing it in Libya and other parts of the Ummah today.
The allyship was always a scam. If Malcom X hadn't converted to Islam (he apostatized later in life anyway) I sincerely believe there wouldn't even be an allyship. I know it's all way more complex than that, but I think that's what it boils down to.
Imo, Palestinians should be thanking black Americans for everything they've done so far, which is more than any other non-Muslim community in the US has done.
Definitely not finger wagging.
That's why I found it rich when Layla Saad started going on about the legacy of the trans-Atlantic slave trade. Like, you volunarilty moved to fucking QATAR. The amount of modern slavery there and other Gulf states is staggering.
I’ve known a few Indigenous Americans that have latched onto Free Palestine because they believe there is common ground. But I’m not sure how widespread that is among various tribal members.
I listened to Red nation podcast until it became Palestinian is the one true indigenous identity central. Idk I think they are maybe hoping the cause celebre will rub off on them?
Edit- I just checked up on this podcast after my hiatus and it looks like they’ve gone back to more interesting (for me) topics so I might give them another go but it was definitely a hmmm moment.
But I’m not sure how widespread that is among various tribal members.
As far as I can tell, Palestine activism isn't as big a trend among Native Americans. Probably because Indigenous tribes have their own problems to deal with and don't have time to listen to Hamas activists whine about how it's genocide to not let them rape Jewish girls to death
Yeah, I think I see it because until quite recently I lived close to a tribal university. So they were college students who just happened to be Native.
Jill Stein is not going to happen. It’s basically just a vote for Trump. So I don’t even know what Gaza activists want from Harris voters.
Exactly. They obviously know Trump will fuck Palestine over more than Harris ever would, how could they not? We've already seen Trump as President, and he was chummy with Netanyahu. Any reasonable person might start to think that these pro-Palestinian activists don't really care about the suffering in the middle east (or in black communities), and instead just get a thrill from being kowtowed to.
Any reasonable person might start to think that these pro-Palestinian activists don't really care about the suffering in the middle east (or in black communities), and instead just get a thrill from being kowtowed to.
This is exactly it. They just want to throw public tantrums and harass Jews. They don't actually care about dead Palestinians
Ah......Some really care about dead Palestinians, though. I avoid this argument of "they don't actually care about....." because it's not totally true.
There were BLM rioters who just wanted to steal a Louis Vuitton bag, but there were people who actually cared about cop brutality. During the UK riots, led by white people, there were yobbos who just wanted to smash things. But there were people who actually cared about violence against the white working class, especially children.
So I avoid that argument. Some people don't sincerely care, but some really do.
So I avoid that argument. Some people don't sincerely care, but some really do.
Its hard for me to avoid it because 99% of the people in the west who engage in these "protests" clearly know nothing about the conflict. And they engage in behavior that actively makes the situation worse. Keeping Jewish university students from going to class or vandalizing a kosher grocery store isn't saving any Palestinian lives
I mean, protests are by nature disorganized. No one on the right likes to admit it, but BLM got bodycams on every cop. While police were buying military grade weapons, they amazingly never had it in the budget to get bodycams, even though the technology existed for a very long time. Sorry, Republicans, but in that sense, the rioting worked.
Obviously, there are long term ramifications to rioting and we're going to feel them for a very long time. Defunding the police has made many things worse. But it is hard to not be angry with the police for not getting bodycams BEFORE people resorted to rioting.
The idea of rioting is to scare everyone into pressuring the powers that be to change. If the powers that be is doing something truly egregious, we can all admit that rioting is sometimes a necessary evil.
But you are correct that most of Team Palestine don't understand the conflict, and don't even know what a Jew is. It is amaaaaaaazing what people don't know. Even rudimentary facts they get wrong.
I know, that's why I said I get where she's coming from. However, she also said not one white female celebrity got the same treatment and that's just not true, so I was disagreeing with that one point. I'm not even a Taylor Swift fan, but it annoys me that people expect her to voice her opinion on everything.
It's despicable that people act like women, and black women in particular, have to center every other cause and group. I
t's also clear that a lot of activists don't actually understand the history of this conflict, and they also seem to cast a blind eye when it comes to the actions of Hamas.
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This is something journalist Chris Hedges has talked about as well, saying that if we truly want change, we have to be willing to lose.
Jill Stein already provided us that service in 2016. During that time, he was able to flood the Supreme Court with religious nuts. As a result, we lost Roe. By the way, I don't believe her explanations to her ties to Russia.
I don't have a single reason why she is somehow less of a crackpot than either Trump or Harris, nor do I see how she would bring stability let alone prosperity to the US.
I don't have any evidence that she's the voice of reason. I simply don't. She's not a centrist of any sort, so she's not the raft out of this:
Ultimately we can end up with far-right/far-left tyranny.
I get voting 3rd party if it's in your own best interests, but I think it's ridiculous to vote against your own interests for the sake of someone else. Especially when you are very far down the American privilege ladder. Especially especially when that someone else triggered a predictable disaster upon themselves.
Again, I do have compassion for Palestinians. But any reasonably educated adult could have predicted that this would be the reaction to Oct 7th. Hamas could end it by returning the hostages and dissolving as an organization. They're not willing to make that sacrifice, but want Black Americans to make sacrifices on their behalf.
I'd be in support of a ceasefire if Hamas did those two things. They started a war they couldn't win, and I'm not interested in suffering on behalf of people who won't help themselves. Even more so when it wouldn't make a difference.
We're just going to get Trump again.
PS- I did not downvote you. (I really avoid downvoting anyone). Your response was well thought out and I thank you for taking the time to write it.
Thank you, that's kind. My comment was rambling and derailing, I just felt it important enough to share. In general, I still stand by what I said, but you make very important points.
If we endlessly support the Democratic Party, it just leaves the door open wider to the deranged, dangerous dictator-wannabes like Trump. We got lucky with Trump because he's a buffoon. But soon enough, someone competent may rise.
I'm glad my vote doesn't matter because I'm in a blue state. Because I really don't want to choose between the open misogyny of the Republicans or the sneaky, backdoor misogyny of the Democrats
I don't know what I'll vote when the time comes, but it is important for people to start voting only for majority parties
Based on the rest of your comment, I think you meant “stop” instead of “start”, am I right?
After the death of George Floyd, countless young celebrities were being harassed on Instagram by fans who were demanding they make posts supporting BLM. And many gave in and made one of those “blackout” posts, not because they actually cared but to get people off their backs.
I'm glad somebody is saying it. It's ridiculous how so many Black activist groups have been convinced that they're responsible for Palestine somehow. Why do so many Black people in America believe that its their duty to fall on the sword for a bunch of people thousands of miles away who don't give a fuck about them? If they want to get involved with foreign policy, why simp for Palestine instead of, say, advocating for oppressed women in Africa?
During vice president Kamala Harris’ recent presidential rally in Michigan, pro-Palestine protestors decided to interrupt Harris’ speech with chants. Let’s be honest, If Kamala was not currently being portrayed as a Black woman in the media, these protestors would have never interrupted her rally.
Eh, I disagree. The Hamas cheerleaders never miss an opportunity to throw a mass tantrum. They do it to Kamala because they think she'll listen to them
All over TikTok, Arabs are demanding that Black women refrain from voting in the upcoming 2024 presidential election, but these same Arabs have yet to explain how they will help Black women navigate life if Trump wins this election.
Because Palestine activists are great at PR. And they know how easy it is to guilt left wing American women into doing whatever some supposedly "oppressed" man tells then to do (even if that thing goes against their interests)
There is no talk of protecting Black women from their abusive partners.
And there never will be. Because that would mean acknowledging that Black MEN need to take responsibility.
These pro-Palestine protestors want Black women to be their sacrificial mules for absolutely nothing in return. That is not a fair deal. The implication that Black women should be the ones to sacrifice their lives on behalf of others is manipulative and narcissistic.
This is an expectation for women in general. We need to shut up about our needs and our rights and our concerns because trans people, Palestinians, immigrants, homeless men,, etc are more important than women. So we're not allowed to care about our problems until everyone else's problems are solved. It's bullshit
Liberal Black women have decided to latch onto the Israel/Palestine conflict for the same reason they latch onto transgender issues: to get a pat on the back from their nonBlack liberal cohorts.
Facts!
Let me show you what attempting to be morally superior has cost these liberal Black women. Ryna Workman, a gender confused lady that refers to herself as nonbinary, decided to mule for Arabs right before graduating from NYU School of Law with a high paying big law job that would have given her a salary of $300,000 per year. What was her reward? She was immediately terminated from her job that was waiting for her as soon as she got her diploma and blacklisted from all high paying NYC law firms. I have already written about Miss Workman in detail here: ("No Good Deed Goes Unpunished": Ryna Workman and the Consequences of Black Women's Muling), so I won’t go into too much detail about her full story, but what kills me the most about Ryna is the fact that she gained nothing from muling for Palestine. Her GoFundMe from October of 2023 still sits at around $5,300. Her goal was to reach a mere $10,000 so she could support herself through unemployment, but the Arabs she was muling for could not even give her that. Ryna Workman will never get another chance at working in big law ever again. She will now struggle to pay off her (probably six-figure) student loan debt while the Arabs that she expected to get pats on the back from will continue to ignore her existence at their high paying jobs. These are the fruits liberal Black women win from all of their labor.
Can't say I feel bad for Miss Workman (the dumbass handmaiden openly celebrated mass rape and murder). But the point still stands. Don't cape for literal rapists and expect them to have your back when people don't want to hire your crazy ass
I also want to point out the hypocrisy of Arab men, who upon migrating to the western world, exclusively start chasing after blonde haired, blue eyed white women. Yet not a single blonde haired, blue eyed white female celebrity has been harassed into donating to Palestinian causes.
I need to push back on this as well. A lot of White liberals have been guilted into taking a side on this issue. And Jewish people in the diaspora have been harassed about the Palestine issue for decades.
Beyoncé would not even be able to walk around Palestine without being assumed to be a prostitute or called a slave
Not so fun fact: the Arabic slang word for a Black person or an African is the same as the word for "slave"
Conservative white men want Black women to be the face of anti-immigration. Liberals want to make Black women the face of abortion. Black men want to make Black women the face of all things wrong within the Black community. Trans people want to make Black women the face of transphobia. I need Black women to ignore them all. Go book an appointment at your local spa, plan a trip to the beach, or take a day off from work and go to the mall.
This is good advice for all of us. Be selfish
Whether Palestine deserves to be freed should be irrelevant to Black women, because it is not our job to free them in the first place. Free yourselves from thinking you are the world’s mule.
I have a lot of respect for people who know when to stay in their lane and focus on issues that they care about and are actually knowledgeable about
I love every single bit of this language, this tone, this imagery and this power. It has taken us BW a long ….LONG time to start asking a different set of questions and I personally know one of the major figures responsible for this monumental shift in discourse who exposed herself to overwhelming hatred and abuse for telling BW they get to STOP IT!! Blogs like this are the blooming product of a treacherous battle over the minds and souls of BW and the clapback is only just kicking into high gear. The best is yet to come!
Well said.
I feel for Palestinians. I do. No one deserves to be displaced and bombed because their government fucked around and found out. But the ball is absolutely in Hamas’ court. And it’s pretty clear that Netanyahu is not going to be swayed by Ivy League college students. However, he might be swayed by a Harris White House withholding arms shipments in lieu of a ceasefire.
That is not going to happen when everyone knows that Iran would attack Israel.
Exactly. TRAs whine that they’re not allowed to exist. Meanwhile the entire Middle East would actively like to wipe out Jews.
Women shouldn’t be bothered about politics they should just go shopping instead?
This is a parody surely?
Not literally. It’s about focusing inward on yourself after wasting time on politics that do not actually affect you or benefits you anyway. Very true for women deep into the ideologies, turning themselves into activism nannies.
So that's what happened to Femmefelines. Thanks! Do you know any other similar content producers?
And Black women don’t owe Jewish women anything. Oh, but that’ll get a million more downvotes incoming am I right?
Oh, but that’ll get a million more downvotes incoming am I right?
Please climb off the cross. Literally nobody has claimed that Black women owe Jews anything.
You're assuming the two groups are mutually exclusive. Yes, Black Jewish women are a minority within a minority, but they do exist. A small number are Jews of Ethiopian descent, handful are converts, either in Africa or in the U.S. (which has had a Black Jewish community for over 100 years), and many (especially in the U.S.) are either mixed-race with one Ashkenazi (European) Jewish parent (or in less likely situations, a Sephardic, Mizrahi, or Yemeni Jewish parent) and a non-Jewish parent of African phenotype. Some are also adopted. Zoe Kravitz is a well-known example of Ashkenazi-Afro-American ethnicity as are both her parents, Lisa Bonet and Lenny Kravitz. Tiffany Haddish actually is Jewish through an Ethiopian parent and her other parent is Black as well.
I know this seems random but it's a nit-pick of mine. People assuming Jewish means "from Europe" and pale skin. In many cases this is true, but not all of them. A fun fact is that Israel itself is made up of large numbers of the descendants of Arabic Jews who were ethnically cleansed from their Arabic homelands. Israel itself is a racist, stratified society with Ashkenazi Jews atop, then Middle-Eastern/North African Arabic Jews, then Yemeni Jews, then Ethiopian Jews, and at the bottom non-Jewish Natives of color and migrants.
I don't say this to shit on Israel, I think it has many faults and good aspects as well. Most Arabs are incredibly racist and hate Black people. What was said above is true - the word for Black person is "slave" in Arabic because they have been stealing Africans for over a thousand years. I'm just pointing out the situation in Israel in all it's dirty messy glory. People in general are nasty.
Twenty percent of Palestinians are of African descent too.
It should be noted- from their slave trading. Christian Palestinians and Muslim Palestinians actually look distinct for this reason. Christians were not allowed to own slaves, but Muslims could and did. They had children with their sex slaves.
While ships were no longer coming in by 1878, slavery itself continued until the 1930s.
So I'm not sure it makes Palestinians look more sympathetic to point to Afro-Palestinians as a way to demand allyship from black Americans.
Did anyone say that? Was that in the article?
Some people in the American Jewish community have expected support and statements from black women and men in the USA because of past support for the civil rights movement.
Some people in the American Jewish community have expected support and statements from black women and men in the USA because of past support for the civil rights movement.
LOL nobody in the Jewish community expected solidarity from any left leaning group after October 7th.
It is all over social media and regular media. People claiming they were betrayed or questioning why famous black people or organizations. Side note, black organizations did send solidarity to the victims of the October 7th attacks. They just didn't support the Israeli response.
People claiming they were betrayed or questioning why famous black people or organizations.
We were a bit mad that many of these Black organizations were LITERALLY CELEBRATING MASS RAPE AND SLAUGHTER
Like, you don't have to approve of Israeli policy. But it would be nice if these alleged civil rights organizations could agree that raping women to death because you hate their nationality/race is wrong
Side note, black organizations did send solidarity to the victims of the October 7th attacks.
Name one
Side note, black organizations did send solidarity to the victims of the October 7th attacks.
Tbh, I didn't see any of that.
NAACP and similar orgs. Not the newer orgs like BLM-- but BLM is not widely supported by black people.
Prof. Russell Rickford of Cornell African studies said the attack was exhilarating. Angela Davis did not condemn the Hamas attack but did call Israeli retaliation genocide.
Are these mainstream people or groups. The NAACP has far more esteem and relevancy to black Americans.
I'm going to ask for direct citations. The NAACP has had its own problems with antisemitic members. And when confronted, usually deny it. https://www.nbcnewyork.com/news/local/naacp-finds-no-evidence-of-antisemitic-slurs-used-during-ny-basketball-game/5064232/
While no one owes anyone allyship, it's arguable that Jews in America have done far more for black civil rights than any other marginalized demographic, and certainly more than Palestinians.
Yet there are many black thought leaders, including some very old school ones, who believe things that neo-Nazis do.
While I think it would be a very sad and depressing turn of events, I couldn't blame Jewish thought leaders for quietly pulling the plug on their allyship after so many decades of being the bigger collective person to little avail.
I very much enjoyed OP's article and besides a couple of errors in understanding, had no problem with the overall point. Black women shouldn't mule for others, especially to the ungrateful.
If they are enthusiastic for Kamala Harris and believe she will improve their lives in the US, they should absolutely vote for her.
I remember Jesse Jackson calling NYC "Hymietown"
Ah. Well. I'm of the position that people don't really owe each other anything. Black people do not owe Jewish people support. Likewise, Jewish people do not owe black people support. I understand why some Jewish people may want to withdraw their allyship at this point. It's sad, and I wish it weren't that way. I hope it doesn't stay that way.
Personally, I think the Arab allyship was a scam all along and never mutually beneficial. It was always one-sided. It's not my business, but this turn of events isn't surprising at all. It's surprising it took this long, imo.
That leaves a bad taste. Civil rights should have been supported because it was the right thing to do. No quid pro quo required. I know this isn’t how politics work. But to spread that favor to entire ethnic groups over sixty years later seems OTT to me.
The majority of Jewish Americans still vote left and support leftist causes, though. Jews could have just assimilated into white society or pursue wealth like many other non-WASP groups did, doing nothing at all for the civil rights of others. No other demographic showed such allyship, not Asians, not Latinos, not Native Americans, or various European immigrants. That's because none of them wanted to be dragged down or held back for their own pursuits. Even the descendants of white abolitionists who were Quakers or evangelicals probably vote Republican now. But Jewish activists really did have personal conviction to help others. Including Muslims in the West, by the way!
Black people still don't owe them allyship, but I'm fine with Jews focusing on themselves and not extending allyship anymore.
Not only do the very groups they've helped continue to hate them, but white supremacists blame them for mass immigration. White supremacists have a conspiracy theory that Jews are behind the "Great Replacement." So now they're getting pummeled by both the far right and the far left.
But groups demand "allyship" from others-they did in the 1960s & do now.
And now we have demands for other groups to be "intersectional" & centralize the most oppressed or marginalized groups over their own interests (esp for women to do so).
And quite frankly, why would a group ally with another unless they benefit as well, even indirectly-& that could mean because it's right & upholds an ideal that benefits all; or expect their ally to reciprocate?
I agree. And most Jewish Americans like most white Americans in general were not supportive of the US civil rights movement. Lets the re-write history.
That's not how white supremacists see it. They're very bitter about the disproportionate allyship.
Jewish Americans were more supportive of the US civil right movement than non-Jewish, white Americans though. They still tend to have more prog/liberal politics than non-Jewish, white Americans.
But enough were, including other White Americans, to change things. If they didn't care or were hostile, a minority group without support from the majority or enough of them tends to get ignored or stomped on.
Women's rights were fought for by women, but before women had the vote, male's support was crucial to pass laws. Even afterwards. Gay liberation, Unions, workers rights, farmworkers rights - a lot of the liberation movements needed support from enough other sectors of society to get change made. Or at least an unwillingness to ruthlessly suppress the groups seeking their rights.
If you do it's because you forgot to contrast Palestinians with Israelis, and accidentally said what you really think
I was with her until she said "not a single blonde haired blue eyed white female celebrity has been harassed into donating to Palestinian causes".
Erm, what? The harassment of all celebrities, but especially white ones, to publicly support Palestine has been relentless. In addition to this, the existence of Israel is portrayed as an evil white-supremacist bloodthirsty European occupation, which has the effect of nebulously blaming all white Europeans for an alleged genocide.
It is seen as not just a charity to support Palestinians for white people, but a personal, racial obligation to right wrongs that you are inherently guilty of by virtue of your skin colour.
(This, of course, is increased a thousandfold for Jews, but it's not my place to speak on that).
She says everyone else is allowed to be selfish but black women. Hello? Europe is literally setting itself on fire spending billions to babysit migrants who provide us with less than zero in return, and as a bonus, regularly rape and kill us. Anyone who doesn't cheer this on is outcasted and socially destroyed.
I am sure I will be criticised for making a black woman's perspective all about white women, but there would have been no need if she didn't take it upon herself to speak erroneously of my demographic's experiences.
She already lost me at (summarized) "pro Palestinian protestors would only interrupt a black woman's rally. They didn't interrupt Biden or Obama."
Yeah. Because they are men.
Of fucking course a white woman would have been interrupted as well. Based on the current social / political climate, it's completely delusional to think otherwise.
They were harassing Nancy Pelosi at her home for months.
Pro-Palestinian activists wouldn't dare show up at a Trump rally because they know what would happen. White MAGA would be thrilled if that happened, because they'd be able to get violent with them and have it be self-defense. It would get people even more excited to vote for Trump.
Muslims already rule much of the European left through shaming and fear, and that's what they're trying to do on the US.
I consider Black Twitter a collective hero for shutting that shit down, even though I think black progressives should never have allied with Islamists in the first place.
Yeahhhh...I have seen an insane amount of harassment to support Palestine directed at white women online. We're racist if we don't, it seems. You know, the usual.
I support everything else she says.
You're not wrong to call the writer out for saying something that is objectively untrue. White women are not immune from being expected to be Activism Nannies for causes that actively harm them
Dude, white women are expected to cape for every possible minority and permutation except themselves. If we support the left, we're feminazi baby-killers. If we support the right, we're racist right-wing conspiracy theorists. If we're moderates, we're always allowing the other side to win. No matter who gets elected President, it's going to be white women's fault. I'm f'n over it.
Same. We cannot allow men to keep dividing us like this. White women are the scapegoat today. But we all know it won't stop with them
"not a single blonde haired blue eyed white female celebrity has been harassed into donating to Palestinian causes".
Like Taylor Swift?
Why are white women always described as blonde and blue eyed? Are the brown eyed, brunette white women with tawny/olivey skin no longer white? Are we off the hook for white guilt? What about bottle blondes?
All women get guilted and coerced into various things. It’s one of the experiences we all share. I’m not saying that woc don’t have a harder row to hoe due to racism. This is absolutely true. Nasty manipulation of women on any vector available does seem to be universal.
Like all whites are a Germanic stereotype. Although, Angela Carini is being accused of "white woman tears", so I guess Italians are white now.
I mean, plenty of Algerians and Italians overlap in appearance, but being Muslim makes you brown even if you're a blond/blue Chechen, according to the left.
I'm a natural blonde with blue eyes, but even back in school that made me one of few. And that's Germany, a generally very white country. If women with some shade of brown hair and brown eyes are automatically "not white", that would mean that in reality there are very few white women left in this country.
That's sort of a grey area (pun intended).
I guess most people are kind of face blind when it comes to people outside their own group. I've had people swear they thought I had blue eyes when I have brown. I used to be blond as a kid, but now my hair is light brown and I have brown eyes.
Interesting random fact: women are more likely than men to be blonde. I didn't know that until about a year ago. I am not blonde and had wondered for so long why there was an association with blondes being "hotter" and "more womanly." That's because it is actually a trait that correlates more to women. Just another reason to feel inadequate. Damn.
I’ve read that people are very, very good at recognizing human faces. Even faces that aren’t their ethnic group. The theory is that this is an important survival skill from birth. Infants need to know what mom looks like consistently and other caregivers and family as well. I know the joke is “oh they/you all look alike” but I always thought that was nasty and untrue.
Personal experience as a white person being told we "all look alike" by an Asian person in an Asian majority country. Not just by 1 person who actually said it when mistaking me for someone who looked different in terms of hair length, weight & skin tone. But by others as well. It may be that people don't need to differentiate between individuals if they are just looking at "our group/not our group".
Perhaps that was a little bit off, especially if she doesn't keep track of white celebrity drama. However, from what I have seen, there's been an inordinate amount of pressure directed at black women. Palestinians know that the majority of white women are not going to budge. But they've been able to lean on black women for a very long time.
And yes, it is especially outrageous to order black women to not vote for a biracial, half-black woman for president. It just is.
You are completely right about whats happening in europe. However, I think she is speaking from the perspective of whats going on in the USA. Black american women are expected to mule for everyone (black men issues, transgender issues etc) while ignoring their own issues.
I think that it is forced teaming by the Pro-Palestinian groups expecting Black people to support their cause as fellow oppressed peoples, but that is because many Black activists have as well, esp BLM. Many Black academics & students who supported the Palestinians also downplayed or denied Hamas atrocities & portrayed it as oppressed people rebelling. Angela Davis has connected oppression of Black people with Palestinians. BLM & others have linked it with the death & protests of George Floyd. After the Hamas attack "handful of leftists initially celebrated or refused to denounce the attack, including the Los Angeles chapter of BLM, which posted the following on Instagram: “When a people have been subject to decades of apartheid and unimaginable violence, their resistance must not be condemned.”
But there is a long history of it. Malcolm X did in the past, the SNCC in the past. https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.thenation.com/article/society/black-lives-matter-israel-palestine/tnamp/
So she might want to look at BLM & others who are pushing this also.
She specifically says that 'not a single white woman' has been pressured into supporting Palestine, which is objectively untrue. One can support black women without tearing down white women.
She said "yet not a single blonde haired, blue eyed white female CELEBRITY". This statement still isnt really true, as others have mentioned Taylor Swift. But she is still speaking from the american perspective as her audience is most likely black american women. She is not talking about the issues happening among women in Europe.
Yes, her statement is still untrue, regardless of her 'perspective'. Further down in the article she still speaks rather dismissively of white women, so...
So....My original reply was to the poster that was mentioning the issues among european women. I was just mentioning that the writer was speaking from her american perspective and not considering women outside the USA. My reply to you was just that she did not say " every single white women" like you wrote in my response to the person I was replying to. The writer was mentioning celebrity white women specifically. Which are two very different statements. You were incorrect and I was pointing this out to you.
Edit: I understand your fundmental point that white women are also pressured to support causes that go against their own interest or risk being ostracized (though that was not my point in my original reply and to you). I am not going to argue the "who has it worse" because thats not productive. But there is a strange expectation that black american women should be expected to fight /march / protest for x, y and z. This is pressure from within their community and outside.
Why thank you for being so gracious. The writer of the article calls out white women celebrities for not being pressured to support Palestinians, which was incorrect, as you stated in your reply to me.
Which i agreed with in my reply lol
My " perspective " comment was about the original posters comments about european women not what you said. Stop misconstruing what I wrote to be offended.
Your reply came to my comment. If you meant to comment to the OP, you made a comment to my reply, which is why I am commenting back to you.
I have no argument with you that black women are expected to go against their interests. I do have an issue with the way the author of the article positioned herself against white women - although I do not disagree with her that white women are 'sexually pedestaled' by Arab men, while black women are over-sexualized yet demonized.
I will state I have a very hard time understanding why black women are expected to support every 'leftist' cause that comes their way, when it clearly does not benefit them.
For my part, I apologize for any misunderstanding based on commenting haphazards.
Apologies to you if I replied to wrong post and caused the confusion. I completely can understand your point about the writer's dismissive attitudes towards white women also being pressured to submit to interests that harm them, in both liberal and conservative spaces.