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Also shows how “Karen” means literally any woman who speaks up for herself (and for other women), no matter how underprivileged, exploited and abused.

Even my libfem friends are starting to notice and call out men calling women karens. I’m impressed.

For real! The Karen meme was funny in the beginning when said against assholes. But now it’s just become another hateful slur against women who have an opinion.

[–] hedy 56 points

Try and imagine what would happen if a term were coined specifically for black men who are assholes, or gay men or who assholes, or [fill in the blank] men who are assholes. Think anyone would buy the notion that it's supposed to be funny? Or that it will only ever be applied to [fill in the blank] men who are actually assholes?

Karen was never funny.

Couldn’t agree more. And any woman who didn’t see this coming is not the brightest bulb in the box honestly. I think I was still trying to be a conservative when the meme was rising and even I knew it was just a misogynistic slur every man of every color and sexuality was excited to finally use.

This is why I also hated Karen! How the hell is using a name as an insult ever appropriate. I don't like Chad being used as an insult either. Just say the behavior!

I thought it was funny back when Karen was used to refer to racist ww by the black community. They also used Kyle/Brad to call out wm racists, so it isn’t like they were only targeting women. Just racists as a whole.

Only Karen went viral though because of misogyny. It then morphed into the whole “I need to speak to your manager” meme and eventually degraded into an insult for all women, including bw. It went full circle.

[–] BlackCirce 🔮🐖🐖🐖 5 points

I don’t have to imagine it I’m just glad for some reason no one seems to care when black women make fun of annoying black or white men

I honestly thought it was. You can’t force people to think what’s funny and what what isn’t. And yes black women have been getting called Karen’s as well. The WinSpa women was getting called a Karen. Also people do call men male Karen’s online as well.

To be honest, we have a few terms for such men in my country - Poland. First one is Seba (shorthand from name Sebastian) which is usually used on young man without education, who spends most days drinking and playing video games. Basically something like that. His partner is called Karyna and their children are Brajan and Kevin or Dżesika.

For boomers we have Janusz (his wife is Grażyna). He thinks he is an expert in every field of knowledge, but in reality knows nothing. Yet it doesn't stop him from having an opinion on everything. One version of Janusz spends all day in front of tv, drinking beer, after returning home from work because he is tired (while Grażyna does all the housework after normal work). Other version is an entrepreneur who's whole business survives by exploiting his employees, often with mobbing and sexual harassment and complaining that ungrateful younger generation doesn't want to work for scraps.

The youngest generation has something like this too. There's a "kuc" (pony) which means a young man who is a supporter of a specific political party Konfederacja (Confederation) - so a neoliberal, far-right, sexist, misogynistic asshole. And he only supports them because he is young and therefore didn't work a day of his life yet (so he didn't see how it is to work for a typical Janusz mentioned above).

The opposite to a "kuc" is "Julka - young women who basically is very woke.

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I've seen people call a woman who was glaring at a someone taking a creep shot of her a Karen. I've seen people call little girls misbehaving the way any child might Karens. It's gross.

Financial stability and freedom. LMFAO these children are really out here acting like Pimps don't exist

Financial stability and freedom. LMFAO these children are really out here acting like Pimps don't exist

They also seem to think that the majority of sex workers are making bank when most of them are lucky if they make enough to eat day-to-day

Even without the pimps, sex work is survival work, most women barely make rent off of selling their bodies. Very few women are thriving on sex work and those who are have turned their own trauma into a MLM to recruit other women and girls into the meat grinder.

They think it’s all about online prostitution with web cams and photos (not realizing how many women are trafficked into that also). They’re sold the lie they can make thousands per month when places like Only Fans takes a huge percentage and only the top 5% make anything enough to live off of.

Being forced to sell your body because the richest among us are hoarding all the wealth and just being alive is now unaffordable isn’t empowering it’s fucking infuriating and disgusting. That’s not even taking into account the women and girls who are literally trafficked.

[+] [Deleted] -1 points

Also, I've heard that after you leave, you have great career opportunities, apparently "prostitute" on a resume sounds really good. And if you want to stay in the industry, the more years of experience you have, the more money you can make and by the time you're 50, you'll be making... Oh wait

You don't get it! If we could end prostitution stigma, then being a prostitute or stripper would look great on your resume! You need to start thinking buying and selling sex are acceptable now!

They’ve never been to a town’s red light district and seen the women who work the streets, have they? They are neither free nor financially stable.

[–] Jade 12 points

Is she peddling sex work or MLM shite? I'm confused.

The audacity of saying a trafficked woman is somehow "perpetuating harm" against current SWs by speaking out about exploitation.

The fucking audacity.

"do SW to utilize the benefits of financial stability/freedom then leave saying you were a victim"

Oh, I do so wish these people would fuck right off.

Most women aren't getting real "benefits" like "stability" and "freedom." The sex trade exploits and damages women's bodies by diminishing women's organs to a commercial commodity for the sole benefit of pimps and johns. It thrives off of exploitation, poverty, colonialism, male violence, and trauma. It hurts women as a class, irrespective of their direct involvement, because it dehumanizes us and makes it more likely for marginalized and vulnerable women to fall prey to the commercial trade of our bodies.

If you are an "empowered" sex worker who feels it's a great "job" that should be treated like no other, that confers class status like "freedom" and "stability"? Guess what, you're a part of the 1% and YOU need to shut the fuck up. You are not the backbone of the industry and it would do just fine without you. Poor women, marginalized women, colonized women, desperate women, abused women - they are what allows this depraved industry to survive.

Let the women and girls in the trenches of the sex trade to the front to tell the truth. THAT is who I want to protect, that is whose interests I want to build public policy around. Not a privileged elite that spouts Orwellian mantras like "sex work is freedom."

Back in ancient Rome they had gladiators Most gladiators were slaves, however there was a few that did it willingly and some were even bored aristocrates. Can you imagine if instead of looking at the majority of gladiators that were literally dying for people's entertainment, civilization decided that it was ok just because some rich people wanted to fight to the death? That isn't a perfect analogy...but it is so beyond bizzare that anyone would listen not to the majority of people trapped into the sex industry, but the extremely privilaged.

I think it's a good analogy.

Thank you. I think I allowed myself to be gaslit on Reddit for too long. When I made that point on the askfeminist board I was told that i was a complete moron and that prostitution used to be considered sacred in ancient Rome(no it wasn't)

[+] [Deleted] 8 points

Their argument is so obviously ridiculous when you consider that they likely wouldn't say that about ANY other industry. Sex work is supposedly just work like any other, yet people who've left that field aren't allowed to talk about the ways that it is failing or outright exploiting it's employees? In any other scenario, the same person would probably be all "rah rah workers rights" (which is a good thing). But this kind of hypocrisy is rife in gender identity land & in woke land in general.

Blame all the women, those who escaped and those who are still trapped. But no one wants to blame the actual people "perpetuating harm", MEN who buy women's bodies like commodities on the masturbatory market. These people live online, how else can they believe a woman sharing her experience is "literal violence" on the same level as men actually beating, raping and degrading women...

I find it extraordinarily sad and concerning when I see young men on Reddit and other social media who think porn is necessary to masturbate. They literally can't imagine or enjoy sensation.

I ageee. I’ll see “sex workers” on Twitter saying how the Nordic model will kill them. No I believe that is men that will kill you.

[–] Gwen 27 points

"I'm really getting sick of people with lived experience speaking about their experience."

They pull this shit with ex “porn stars” who speak out against the abuse too.

This is disgusting.

"Didn't you know, Karen? Being enslaved was actually empowering for you!"

Morally reprehensible. I hope they pull their head out of their ass someday soon.

They always tell us to do things they themselves aren't doing ... are they?

"Listen to sex workers!" ... have they ever really listened to a prostituted woman? With most middle-class libfems, I honestly doubt it. Where would they even have met one? I mean, the only ex-prostitute I talked to was one who gave a talk after being invited by a feminist group, because, well, I just don't have the guts to walk into a brothel, and very few women who escaped prostitution tell anyone in their normal lives. (Alice Schwarzer, who publishes the German magazine Emma, which is where young me got her feminism from, did talk to prostitutes in brothels, and oh wonder, is anti-prostitution.)

"Listen to trans people!" Yeah, well, I did, and even the young, probably gay variety of TIMs demand to be centred in women's groups. TIFs are obnoxious and quick to start with the murder threats when you cautiously and politely question whether the gender identity of a very traumatized young woman might arise from her trauma.

It is entirely possible that the obnoxious TIFs and their female allies never met a TIM in the wild. (They were constantly bemoaning, in the chat where I met some, that there were no actual males there for some strange reason. It was a fandom space that you would expect to be only inhabitated by women, and oh wonder, the actual sex of all genderspecials there was female.)

Loads of only fans and non penetrative sex workers in the kink world. Yup, pretty much all white and culturally middle class and doing it for the thrill. Are a handful of successful pro Dom's and subs. All need side angles to make it pay enough, or have medical backgrounds that make them skilled enough for the hardcore masos.

I see. The "sex work" catchall term is sure helpful to hide the difference between all those different kinds of prostitution. To me, a dominatrix is a prostitute in a way, but I would not consider her experiences to be the same as that of a prostitute in a flatrate brothel.

That aside, with some libfems I have met, they're so sheltered, I don't think they even have a thrill-seeking friend who is on only fans.

Yup, it's a broad term that hides the reality of actual prostitution.

The light stuff (in comparison) is also toxic in it's own way, i.e. only fans normalising porn, but definitely not the same as selling penetrative access to your body.

It’s amazing how they manage to sound like misogynistic men. Users of porn and prostitution also feel like the women in it aren’t victims.

"I thought it was listen to sex workers"

...

"Except for the ones that say things I don't like"

It's exactly like "believe women". They only want to hear a woman speak if they're saying exactly what a male supremacist, porn-loving, has a vested interest in making sure women remain a subhuman class of commodified things, man would want to hear. Any other opinions and women are told to stfu, go figure. That goes for the women caping for these male supremacists as well.

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