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News and LegislationStroke In Our Favor: Organization Governing World Swimming Votes to Bar Males Like Lia Thomas From Women's Events
Fina, swimming's world governing body, has voted to stop [male] transgender athletes from competing in women's elite races if they have gone through any part of the process of male puberty.
The new policy requires [male] transgender competitors to have completed their transition by the age of 12 in order to be able to compete in women's competitions.
Fina will also aim to establish an 'open' category at competitions for swimmers whose gender identity is different than their birth sex.
The policy was passed with 71% of the vote from 152 Fina members.
The decision was made during an extraordinary general congress at the ongoing World Championships in Budapest.
Earlier Fina members heard a report from a transgender task force made up of leading figures from the world of medicine, law and sport.
Fina's decision follows a move on Thursday by the UCI, cycling's governing body, to double the period of time before a rider transitioning from male to female can compete in women's races.
The issue in swimming has been catapulted into the spotlight by the experiences of American Lia Thomas.
More here:
https://www.bbc.com/sport/swimming/61853450
The BBC article specifies that males like Thomas are barred from women's elite events. It's not clear if/how this applies to non-elite events.
ETA: Here's the new FINA policy:
Note: the new FINA policy reinstates the practice of making sex chromosome testing mandatory for all athletes seeking to compete in elite women's events. The policy says the women's category is for people born with female sex chromosomes and ovaries, not for anyone with male sex chromosomes and testes. It bars not only males like Lia Thomas from women's competition, it also bars males with DSDs like Caster Semenya. The only loophole is for XY people with CAIS.
The policy also requires that TIFs on testosterone who want to compete in men's water polo or high diving must sign a waiver that says:
I acknowledge and accept the possible increased injury risk associated with transgender men competing in the men’s competition category in Water Polo alongside males who are statistically likely to be stronger, faster, and heavier than transgender men.
AND/OR
I acknowledge and accept the possible increased injury risk associated with transgender men competing in the men’s competition category in the High Diving given the demands of the discipline.
I understand and acknowledge that FINA strongly recommends that I speak to a qualified medical specialist prior to competition to ensure my physical ability to participate in the men’s category and to ensure that I understand the attendant risks.
I acknowledge and agree that I am voluntarily assuming the risk that I might suffer loss, injury, death, or other damage as a result of my participation in the men’s competition category, including (without limitation) any possible increased risk due to my status as a female-to-male transgender athlete. I hereby waive and release FINA and all persons and entities involved in any way in FINA Competitions (including, without limitation, all of their respective members, directors, officers, employees, volunteers, contractors, and agents) from any claim of liability in respect of such loss, injury, death, or other damage.
Still not good enough. Some boys start puberty before age 12. Boys get a testosterone boost before puberty anyway. And they'll still have male bones, muscles, heart, lungs, pelvis, etc.
No. Males. Period.
eta: Two more things...they'll never have to deal with periods or pregnancy, and as was posted in a thread earlier the research indicates they'll still get that male height advantage. (https://ovarit.com/o/GenderCritical/108412/new-paper-shows-trans-girls-put-on-puberty-blockers-estradiol-end-up-with-male-a)
And they'll still have male bones, muscles, heart, lungs, pelvis, etc.
And they'll never have to deal with their menstrual cycle. As a girl/woman who played sports, this is a HUGE advantage. And I don't want to hear about how some girls/women don't have a menstrual cycle for this reason or that, I played sports all throughout high school and college and never encountered a woman who didn't have to deal with a period, but even if I had she wasn't a man.
I think any boy who undergoes trans "treatment" at such a young age is not likely to do well in sport. I think all those meds are too damaging. Either way, they at least seem to be on the right track here
Come on, ladies. This is WAY better than I had hoped, anyway. Completed by 12 is almost impossible, plus, as many other have said, would leave the hypothetical child such a mess he wouldn't be able to compete. It's basically paying lip service to their right to pretend their way in, bit makes it virtually impossible. This is going as far as they dare, and way further than I had ever hoped. It's really all there in the TIF sign off .. "males who are statistically likely to be stronger, faster and heavier.. "and ...."due to my status as a female-to-male transgender athlete"... read " because they are still male" and " because I'm a silly girl playing with the big boys." This is like getting a dirty puppy. Even though we shouldn't have to be grateful, and they shouldn't be there at all, in reality, this is a huge win for us.
I agree. Making male interlopers virtually impossible is enough for now. Time to turn the focus to other sports and other issues.
At least this is a step in the right direction, but I really can't get over "By the age of 12." How can people hear that and not feel sick to their stomach? Leave children alone.
That was my reaction too. In the UK they're arguing whether 16 is too young to consent to puberty blockers, and this requires blockers from 11. It's unethical to give children any additional deadline or reason to take these drugs.
No, it doesn't require kids to take blockers blockers. It doesn't require or encourage TIMs to participate in women's events at all. It seeks to bar them, in fact.
The policy just says that if TIM wants to seek eligibility to participate in women's elite swimming competition, he first has to satisfy FINA that he's never experienced any part of male puberty and he has to provide documentation showing that since his 12th birthday his T level has always been below 2.5 nmol/L. It's an impossible standard to meet. A TIM would have to take T tests every day from age 12 on to prove that.
And it boggles my mind that what's considered "horrible bigotry" or "conversion therapy" today is telling an eleven year old girl that NO, she can't be a boy, and NO, she can't have a double mastectomy while in her teens, ffs. People have lost their minds, I swear this is nothing more than a concerted test by the government to see how much bs they can push down people's throats.
Well, hallelujah. Finally some semblance of sanity and decency.
“Any part of the process of male puberty” is an excellent delineation.
Seems like a good start. Completing transition by the age of 12 sounds almost impossible, though. Maybe that was the goal.
"to have completed their transition by the age of 12" they mean started right? unless they're planning putting them on growth hormones and estrogen at age 7 so before they can 'complete transition' before they're 12? Or its a way to completely make them go onto males no matter what?
I dunno what they mean exactly. But my guess would be that the phrase "to have completed their transition by the age of 12" means having their balls removed - which fits with the push for earlier surgical interventions that some "gender medicine" experts have been recommending for a while.
FINA will have gone over its documents with a fine toothed comb. I highly doubt they would have said "completed" if they meant "started."
ETA: It means they have to show they never experienced male puberty beyond Tanner Stage 2 or before age 12 and that since age 12 they have never had T above 2.5 nmol/L . From the policy:
Male-to-female transgender athletes (transgender women) and athletes with 46 XY DSD whose legal gender and/or gender identity is female are eligible to compete in the women’s category in FINA competitions and to set FINA World Records in the women’s category in FINA competitions and in other events recognised by FINA if they can establish to FINA’s comfortable satisfaction that they have not experienced any part of male puberty beyond Tanner Stage 2 or before age 12, whichever is later. Specifically, the athlete must produce evidence establishing that:
i. They have complete androgen insensitivity and therefore could not experience male puberty; or
ii. They are androgen sensitive but had male puberty suppressed beginning at Tanner Stage 2 or before age 12, whichever is later, and they have since continuously maintained their testosterone levels in serum (or plasma) below 2.5 nmol/L.
I think they mean start in puberty blockers, i.e., go from social to medical transition. Which is an interesting definition of transition, it acknowledges that blockers aren't a pause.
Yes, that's what it means. And good point about how this acknowledges that blockers aren't a pause.
The policy also requires that TIFs on testosterone who want to compete in men's water polo or high diving must sign a waiver that says:
High diving?
Awesome!! Since most of the trans athletes seem to be autogynephiles that transition after 20 (and a decent amount after 30) this will cut down on the number of men in women's swimming tremendously. Even children who have been transitioned will have a hard time meeting the standards, as i hope most parents would hesitate to start the process at an age that guarantees to make their kid infertile and doom him to a nonexistant sex life.
I would celebrate if all sports took this standard, or even flat out barred them in plain language.
I can't wait to see all the TIMs complain that an open division isn't inclusive enough. When women complained about being called "people," they were told "are you saying women aren't people?" Going to be nice to turn that around in the open division for "people whose gender identity differs from their sex."
This sounds good but I don’t believe boys should begin transition until adulthood so really they should just say no males
You know what's really sad? Most every other news site is running this as a top world story. Yahoo, Reuters, Fox, NBC, CBS... except for CNN and other more liberal news sites. Like god, could they be any more captured and put their head in the sands? What the hell?
Edit: they finally put a story up, over a day later than every other major media site 😑
Not good enough. Males who haven't gone through puberty are still not women. They still have different bodies than women. Also, this encourages stopping normal, healthy puberty in boys.
I am happy, though, if this stops Will Thomas in his giant size 12 men's tracks.
Honestly, I agree with you but those boys will never be able to grow up to be elite athletes anyway, or even competitive athletes. They'll be suffering all sorts of health ailments from crazy experimental medicalization. And, God willing, by the time these boys grow up, this insanity would have become passe and the topic of the day will be mass lawsuits.
Then why even allow this? This was inevitable when male puberty became the sole issue of debate, not the fact that males can't be females. On one of the Jazz Jennings episodes that I watched, Jazz says that he wishes he would lose weight, that he used to be very athletic and beat all the other girls at running, as though the difference was solely that he got fat, not that he's male. This will come to fruition, imo.
This is just the first step. It's ground they can take and hold without risking massive corporate backlash.
They're just paying lip service to the fantasy when they know osteoporotic teen eunuchs will never compete as athletes.
... I just typed out osteoporotic teen eunuchs. Pushing childhood transition is pure evil.
Everyone has supported his delusion, his entire life. He'd probably believe he was the Queen of England if that's what they'd been selling him since birth.
I think this might effectively stop the invasion of womens's sports by males who aren't good enough to compete fairly against other males.
IF by "completed their transition" it is meant that they have to have been given puberty blockers, at the very least, and been surgically castrated.
I doubt many parents will castrate their sons in the hopes that they might win at womens' sports ... especially knowing that there might be more than three cheaters in a womens' competition.
Many might trans their sons "socially", though.
I get all this. I still say no. There is probably a boy in the wings already. Also, remember what happened the last time we left the door open a crack?
I totally agree, males should be banned from womens' sports completely.
But for now, I am happy that the door is only cracked open a bit, instead of standing wide open.
Yup. It's a stop gap. Will and his team are probably speaking to lawyers.
Indeed. At least the door is swinging the opposite way now. Just another little push and perhaps it will finally close.
so woke moms everywhere will need a new item on their to do list in preparation for their son‘s 12th birthday party: make a short video of your son stating “I am female.” Make sure it is time stamped before the actual date.