I’m making this post to discuss why I think arguments for women’s sports often fall flat or are accused of sexism, and how we can improve them. The most common argument I see when people defend women’s sports is that a women may be injured, or if it is a non-contact sport, a women cannot possibly beat a man in said category. This argument is often met with an accusation of sexism.
I think the fact alone that a woman might get hurt or not win is not a good argument because it will just be met with someone using an example of a woman getting hurt playing women’s sports or a cherry-picked example of coed sports. The two following arguments are often used:
A woman being injured is not a reason to not let her do something. TRAs often respond to an example of a woman being injured as if we are trying to say she is a delicate flower and they are defending her rights to compete. Example from Reddit: “Does she not know what boxing is? Boxers get injured and even killed. It's boxing” and “I was thinking that. It’s boxing. Has she not heard of the life-altering injuries that cis male boxers already sustain? Boxing is kind of infamous for injuries and brain damage. Boxers have in fact been killed. I’m not saying that that’s good and fine obviously, I’m just saying that I’m not sure why she’s acting like boxing isn’t a notoriously violent sport”. As if she wants to compete against men. The reason only talking about women being injured is not a impactful argument with these people is because women get injured all the time, doing all sort of things that they should be allowed to do. I’ve discovered that you need to simultaneously bring up the fact that women are being forced into high risk situations in order to compete at all. 18 year old women are allowed to join the military, go into combat, and be killed. And I fully support their right to do so. Women also get injured playing women’s sports all the time. My cousin had to get facial reconstructive surgery from playing rugby with other women. I played coed soccer as a teenager and got the wind knocked out of me many times. But it was fun and I enjoyed it. But these are choices. If you narrow the argument and say we are ONLY discussing what should be allowed in sports, you could claim that while women do typically get injured playing sports, they are more likely to get injured playing against men. While this is probably true, the argument still doesn’t work. First of all, we lack the statistical data to prove this (because no one want it to be proven), but also because the logical conclusion of, “if something is more likely to injure women they shouldn’t do it” is that coed sports should also be banned. I don’t support that at all. I think playing sports together is good for society and prevents gender roles from being implemented so strongly (but that’s another rant). It would also follow that if we ban men in women’s sports simply because women are more likely to get injured, why not ban certain sports and activities for women because they are statistically more likely to get injured? Surely we don’t want to prevent women from doing anything they want to do (key word WANT). Should we ban baseball for women and make them all play softball? Should women be forced to play basketball on half courts like my grandmother was in the 1950s? Today Trump said “We will not allow men to beat up, injure and cheat our women and our girls. From now on, women's sports will be only for women.” This was his statement on protecting women’s sports. Other than the cheating part, it’s not very convincing.
Because a woman didn’t win is also an argument that will not work if you are speaking to someone who genuinely believes that TIMs are women. Same thing. I’ve consistently heard “ Should women not be allowed to do things with men simply because a man could outperform them?” This is often an argument that is used to keep women out of military engagement and certain trade schools. So it is framed as sexism by TRAs. Women are allowed to do plenty of things they may not excel at. I see these situations constantly framed as racism and transphobia as well. As if everything is fair and women are just sore losers.
Context about injuries and competition need to be added, I think the rebuttal to this type of argument is:
The reason a woman getting injured by a man when playing WOMENS sports is wrong isn’t the fact that she was injured. It has to do with bodily autonomy and our fourth amendment rights. If a woman is participating in any WOMENS activity, she is expecting to play only against other women. Women participating in coed sports is fine and dandy if they CHOOSE to do so. If they have not chosen to do so, that’s a problem. We are forcing women to play sports against men without their explicit consent. They have agreed to women’s sports only, not coed sports. On top of that, add a culture that will vilify and blacklist any female competitor who backs out. That is coercion. The problem at hand is not women being injured, it is consent. They have not consented to participate in a sport with men and they are essentially forced into doing so or else be vilified by the media, not be able to compete at all, lose brand deals, lose their livelyhood, and potentially be banned from participating in their sport ever again. There is nothing wrong at first glance with a women being injured whilst playing a sport or playing sports with men. There is something wrong with forcing a women into a situation she has not explicitly agreed to be in. We do not FORCE women to compete in coed sports or else not compete at all. We do not FORCE women into any situation they don’t want to be in. That is the problem. Women’s sports is not coed sports. I so often see women say “I play sports against men all the time! What the issue here? Stop being sexist!” What they forget is that they have chosen to play sports with men and have the option to play only with women. An athlete should not be expected to randomly start playing coed in the middle of a game or completion and not have the ability to say “actually I only want to compete against women”.
Adding to the above argument. You should remind someone you are arguing with that the question at hand is not “Can women compete in a competition/any activity with men?” It is “Do we care if a woman consents to playing against males or not?” and “Do female people have the right to have their own clubs and sport teams regardless of wether or not you personally need them?” Emphasis on the word RIGHT. Do those nasty conservative women have the right to a female only space? Whether you like it or not? Whether you personally are comfortable with something is completely irrelevant. Any liberal person should be able to see that men often push women out of their own organizations, even feminism. Women’s sports were created by women. When men participate they take women’s titles, opportunities, money, careers, and experiences. Things that women, having been relegated to the outskirts of society had carved out for themselves. That is why a woman coming in second to a man is a women’s competition is wrong. It is not merely because she lost. That is what TRAs like to pretend we are mad about. The more men compete, the less women compete. We need to get straight to the point with them and ask “Why should female people not be allowed their own spaces?”
All women should have the right to play all-female sports regardless of whether or not men have an advantage. Men do not have an advantage in chess or darts but if women create a competition only for them that should be respected. There are reasons beyond the physical for us wanting our own spaces.
In conclusion, the reason TIMs should not compete in women’s sports is not because a woman should never be in a situation where she could be injured but because women shouldn’t have to be in significant danger of injury in order to just play sports. It is because when a woman joins a women’s competition she has not consented to compete with men. It is also because women deserve to have our own clubs and spaces. If men compete, women will no longer be able to compete professionally. Women’s sports with TIMs will just becomes men’s sports. We have gallons of historical proof showing these spaces are necessary.
Just realized you wouldn't see my reply to another person, who seems to also be involved with the same Discord server. I would be careful about the server run by dominique, they've been on a recent banning spree for wrongthink and also bullied a minor member. It only became 18+ after they booted her from the server.
PS - the reason they don't allow political debates is because their North American and European moderation team kept dogpiling and booting members from the global south, one of whom is a minor.
If you find one please do let us know, I'm interested too ! I'm surprised it wasn't done before, but maybe it's complicated because of our stalkers ?
There was someone about a year ago I think who posted her radfem-only discord on here. If I find it again I'll post it on this thread.
Okay its not a rad fem discord or primarily a gaming discord but the main one im active in is a girl/woman only discord! I know it doesnt fit the question but places like this are in short supply so im still gonna recommend it. The one that im a part of that could use a lot more activity. The ages range from 13-early 30s but its accepting of all women. Its not rad fem, and some of the younger women are pat of gender ideology, however you can speak as you wish. Yes you can call TIMs men. The mods heavily vet new members - you have to wait until interviews are open and sit through one for about 30 mins. Another one that im in but not as active has a lot more gaming roles but idk how much gaming they actually do. That isnt necessarily radfem though. I can dm links to both.
Could you please send me a link to that first server? I’ve had such a hard time finding women only ones so I’m totally okay with it not being rad fem, thank you!
I too would enjoy this but have been made uncomfortable in such spaces. Radfems are human too, and my first day in a GC gaming discord, some woman was stoned out of her mind and typing utter nonsense (like just going woooooooooo with nothing intelligible preceding or following it). Could be that I’m just too middle aged and cranky for these spaces, though, so good luck in your journey and I hope you find what you need!
I don't know of any, but would be interested in a radfem or gaming discord as well.
Hey gyns, I help run a radfem gaming server that is accepting new members! Only requirements are to be female, 18+, and a radical feminist. Not questioning or undecided or only gender critical, an actual radical feminist. You must pass verification to gain full access to the server. We don't allow political debates but there is a separate companion server for that. This invite link will last the next month, if you see this later and would like an invite feel free to message me.
🐀🐀🐀🐀🐀🐀🐀🐀🐀🐀
<3<3<3
I would be careful about this server, they've been on a recent banning spree for wrongthink and also bullied a minor member. It only became 18+ after they booted her from the server.
Wait what is the drama here? What kind of wrongthink? I noticed no new members being verified.
It all depends on how TRA-like you like your GC/radfem spaces. Their mod team (which is a very tight clique and if you don’t vibe with one of them, you fall out with all of them) consistently interprets what others say in the worst possible way and rather than give members a real chance to explain themselves (and no, being told “last chance” after the mod team comes down on you like a hammer is not a real chance) they prefer the block/DNI approach.
Things the mods have done: gone after het partnered bisexual women for talking about how attractive another woman is, posted violent sexual fantasies (involving BDSM and kink) about thankfully fictional men in public channels (and not the locked away dungeon channel the mods set aside for that explicit purpose), bragged about driving away members they don’t like, banned a minor member for posting a meme with the r slur (despite domo and other mods admitting to having what I’ll call “edgelord”/offensive phases in their past, yet having zero sympathy or grace for the 17yo user), banned a woman for not finding the meme offensive in another server (the head mod went snooping in another radfem server and banned her for her actions there, specifically), banned a woman for asking why the woman in the previous example was banned + sharing a screen shot of the mod response with said woman, banned a Muslim woman for being Muslim, banned a woman from the global south for misunderstanding a debate about illegal immigrants and refugees (TLDR she thought that the Europeans were talking about illegal immigrant Muslim men causing violence in Europe, not refugees, and responded accordingly; while she did not express herself well and did later rework how she expresses her views, the mod team assumed she meant legitimate refugees and also denied that importing the specific brand Muslim male violence to Europe is currently an issue at all… despite that user also being from a Muslim majority country and a persecuted minority herself and being intimately familiar with the dynamics involved, albeit not in the exact European countries the mods hail from)…
I’m missing a bunch, because this shit has been going on for years, but honestly skip this server. At best, you’ll feel like shit because the mods and their clique ignore you. At worst, you’ll get booted from a space that was your online home for three years. The minor member actually joined when she was 13/14 and they waited until she was 17 to boot her.
The mods are also just really annoying and angry all the time. Right now they’re trying to drum up participation (since banning and driving away the most active members) by automating rat reacts to all messages. It’s an inside joke for them that they’re imposing on everyone. The server is basically run by a mean girl clique that imposes their views and uses the rest of the membership as a peanut gallery for their jokes.
Also, they don’t actually play games anymore. They just stream movies, most of which are hosted by the mod obsessed with slasher films and who stans Jason Voorhees. If you disagree with the glorification of violence against women in media, the server isn’t for you.
I would be interested as well.
I wouldn’t want to invade a lesbian space but at least a women only discord for gaming.
It sucks trying to talk mods or help troubleshoot bugs for people while dealing with the endless onslaught of pornified female characters and jiggle physics and “check out my latest waifu bodyslide preset”
I don’t think a place exists lol