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Philosophy of OvaritKeep the invite system
Apologies if I’ve missed any official comments on this, but I’ve seen a few comments now suggesting this with a lot of positive feedback so figured I’d make a dedicated post!
What I personally think:
There’s a ton of attention on us right now from our #1 fan clubs, just waiting to “cheat the system” and wriggle their way through. With the current invite-only system, even if they got ahold of a code, banning them and tracking who they’ve invited is an easy task. Having open registration would eliminate that trail and make ban evasion a breeze, even IP bans could be bypassed if they had used a VPN while invite-only would take much more time and effort.
Of course (wo)manpower to approve all requests is a big hindrance, but I think ensuring a female-only space for the long run is a higher priority than automatic approvals and sheer numbers right now (quality over quantity). Like many others, I was a lurker on r/GC for a long time before actively participating beyond just voting, my views and opinions hadn’t reverted just because I wasn’t commenting. If people are interested in reading our content then I think they’ll visit regardless, and waiting even a few days for approval won’t make any noticeable negative impact.
I completely agree, especially with the very real threat of being doxed I think invites are the way to go.
I agree with keeping the invite system.
But about doxxing, I want to point out, I can browse Ovarit and go through anyone's profile/comments/posts without an account. So I don't know if invite codes would help with doxxing specifically. Maybe when a user is logged out, profiles cannot be accessed?
Maybe when a user is logged out, profiles cannot be accessed?
I really like this idea. We know how much they love to dig.
Someone in another post suggested something similar with being able to privatize specific circles to members-only, stuff like support groups or more personal topics.
Totally agree. Concentrate efforts on women, not in whack a mole-ing men. Women so rarely put energy into themselves and other women. Keep the walled garden.
I too like the idea of profiles being unavailable when logged out.
Am totally with you on this. Approving all incoming requests is a lot of work, but a lot less than protecting the site and having it down a lot of the time, making sure everything is secure and calming nervous users.
Excellent point. Maintaining the invite system will save time and minimize drama in the long run.
Let me be clear, just because we are using invite codes doesn't mean everyone here is "vetted." Similarly, as stated on our About page, this isn't a women-only space. We are not ensuring that users are women, that takes a lot of time. That isn't something we are willing to do for a platform this public and large.
Trolls ARE going to get in, and probably already have. And I'm worried that an illusion of safety will prevent women from reacting appropriately.
We decided to use the invite system to slow the roll of trolls. It doesn't do more than that. There is a cost to using invites, and it is a serious cost. Many women commented on GC because they needed help, and quickly. We're not able to help women like that if they have a high barrier and delay to joining the site. Additionally, any barrier does decrease the chance someone will join and that does affect our movement.
Since this is our own site it's not like we're going to revert to a Reddit-like state just because invite codes aren't required. Reddit enabled and empowered trolls. We won't.
I understand the joy in feeling more free in a community. But this is not going to be a smaller, vetted, women-only space where you can assume you can trust everyone. Those kinds of communities are fabulous, they also take constant active work and are necessarily small. Ovarit is a public space, and fills a different niche.
I think that maintaining the invite system is a good idea...at least for the next year...and, possibly, beyond. It's wonderful to be able to engage with other gender critical feminists from around the world without having to be distracted by gender self-ID trolls and ideologues. There are other spaces on the internet where GC feminists and gender self-ID campaigners can debate.
But, perhaps, an effort could be made to encourage established Ovarit members to actively use their invites?
I'm now at Level 5, and now have the ability to invite others, but, am flummoxed as to whom to invite. There are gender critical women in my extended family, but they're conservative and Trump supporters. In my social networks, most of my women friends are liberal, and, I suspect, pro-gender self-ID or simply not interested. If I were active on other social media sites, I guess I could extend invites to posters who seem feminist and GC sympathetic, but I'm not.
Suggestions?
I'd be interested in learning how other Ovarites are deciding to invite new people in. Heck, I'd be interested in a "Growing Ovarit" circle to discuss how best to expand our membership.
I actually sent my first invite today! It was to someone on Spinster. She tooted that she wanted a code and her post history looked like an actual woman's post history, so I DM'ed her, and ultimately sent her a code.
Not a perfect system, but it's easy to suss out if someone is an obvious troll if they are active on Spinster.
Honestly, I've been inviting women from said.it. I am not fond of the site, but it seems the word is getting around that said.it is the place to be if you are GC or GC curious. I mentioned I had the ability to invite some people and I got several requests!
Obviously, I check their user post history, or ask for proof of reddit history (if they lurk on said.it) to review and make sure they're not a troll. If they can't provide either, they aren't getting in.
I agree. We're still growing very, very fast and I worry that removing the invite codes too quickly will end up opening us up to a ton of abuse. I would honestly prefer it if we stayed invite only indefinitely.
We also need more privacy options. Keep public posts and comments readable for guests, but default access to user comment and post history to being disabled for anyone who is logged out or doesn't have an account.
While I understand and kind of agree, it' s impossible even with the invite system to keep this space female-only. The mods don' t know us personally, and while I have interacted with flapyourwings for years on the old debate sub, I could very well be a man as far as she knows.
Our lovely opposers are not exactly known for telling the truth and respecting our boundaries, even with the invite system they can infiltrate and ruin us from the inside. And with their resources, they could do it without joining anyway. Not to mention, we can' t expand our numbers like that: one of the biggest strong points of the old sub, was that people could join the conversation, if they can' t do it, there' s a chance they might scatter.
I honestly don' t know how it could be solved. I guess everything depends on how it' s easier and more convenient for the mods. I frankly am ok both ways. As others have said, I guess that the more sensible thing to do is to make a general sub open to anyone and maybe make the others private? But even that can be tricked if you are really motivated.
It’s the difference between “lock your door” and “well if someone wanted to break in they’d do it anyway so might as well leave the door wide open”.
Of course people could lie but just because we can’t guarantee complete certainty, we should throw away all effort and settle for no certainty whatsoever? I’d accept 50% over nothing at all.
Hopefully those with codes aren’t just giving them away willy-nilly to the first person that asks either. The point is to verify them in some way, or use your best judgment; your average trolling TRA isn’t likely to have a history of gender critical commentary.
Even with the invite system they can infiltrate and ruin us from the inside.
The invite system makes this harder to do.
The advantage to the codes is the “paper trail” it leaves behind: Person A invited Person B who invited Person C, and so on. If Person B turns out to be a troll we can easily investigate C for similar behavior as well as look at A and do a mass sweep of all relative commentary. Without this trail it’s a free-for-all guessing game and game of chance which takes more time and effort to catch.
...we can’t expand our numbers like that... if people can’t join the conversation, there’s a chance they might scatter.
I’m not suggesting close registration. You can still join, it just wouldn’t be instantaneous. I doubt not being able to comment while awaiting approval will turn someone away for good. It’s no different than browsing old threads that are no longer active, you wouldn’t leave the site permanently just because you couldn’t comment on that specific topic- that would be silly. I’d argue anyone who would is in the very low minority.
Chiming in to add my support for keeping it invite only. Ever since joining I’ve been amazed at the quality of the content and commentary on this site, and strongly suspect that the current invite system has played a role in shaping that. (And it’s still gaining members at an astonishing rate for being both so new and invite only!) Keeping the invite system and having a slower buildup of high quality members seems way better than quadrupling the member count through open registration but having a good portion of those be throwaway troll accounts.
I agree with this. I haven't yet found anyone to invite, but am keeping an eye out on many other sites for GC or trans-questioning women. First I'll let them know that Ovarit exists, and if they then ask for a code, I'll check their history and think about inviting.
I know there are a bunch of GC members and lurkers on Digital Spy, for example. They tend to get banned very quickly by the TRA mods - any 'gender' related thread won't last long - but hopefully I'll be able to reach out to a few in time.
Please please please keep the invite system. In ensures we willl not be infiltrated.
I'm in favor of keeping the invite only system as well. It feels way safer.