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I just watched the first 1.5 episodes of season 3 of The Umbrella Academy. The way they show her transition is really scary and the way the other characters react is too. Presumably, this is how they think people should react?

The first episode doesn't say anything about it. About 5 minutes into the second, there is a scene where Vanya is looking for extracts about the women from the past in newspapers. We see flashbacks of the past including Sissy saying something like "You don't even notice the box that you're in til someone lets you out." Soon after, we see her getting a haircut

We then see her talking to 3 of her brothers and one of them makes a comment about her hair. She then tells them about meeting with one of the Sparrow family in the previous episode and they ask her something addressing her as Vanya. She says "It's uh Viktor." One of them says after a slightly awkward pause "who's Viktor?" She says "I am, it's who I've always been" and after another awkward pause, she says "Uh, is that an issue for anyone?" Obviously, they say this is fine, and accept this no questions asked like obedient sheep.

So this is how we're supposed to react if someone comes out as trans, don't question it at all. It just adds to this belief that anyone who expresses any suggestion of being trans is trans. Also to TiPs who watch this that if their family doesn't react like this then they are bigots. It is just going to push these people further away from their parents who are not reacting in the way TRA would like. And it's also scary how seemingly she just literally realized this same day and now she knows she is trans 100% no questions asked

Later in the episode, she tells Allison. We don't actually see her telling Allison. but we see their conversation immediately after. Allison says things like "why didn't you tell me sooner, I can't believe I never realized, I feel like such an asshole." Because obviously this is what you are thinking after a sibling comes out as trans. Vanya/Viktor says "you couldn't have known as I didn't fully...She opened something in me. Showed me I'd never be free hiding from who I really am...I just can't live in that box anymore"

Even more scarily she says "you know I always hated mirrors, I thought everyone felt so strange in their skin. I guess that's not true right?" How can the producers not see the problem with this? She is literally saying that if you hate looking at yourself in the mirror and feel insecure about your body, this means you're trans? How can they not see how this could affect an insecure teenager? So many people don't like looking at themselves in the mirror

Allison now asks: "What do you see now?" Vanya/Viktor says "Me. Just me." At this point, she's (in the show at least) literally just had a haircut. You can tell throughout even in the first episode that she's on testosterone but they don't want you to think that and in the show, she's just had a haircut. Now she is suddenly okay with her body just with a haircut which is just crazy. Allison now is completely accepting and says something like "Thanks for trusting me with this...there's nothing that would make me love you less." At this point, I just stopped watching I was just somewhat curious as to how bad it was going to be.

I just watched the first 1.5 episodes of season 3 of The Umbrella Academy. The way they show her transition is really scary and the way the other characters react is too. Presumably, this is how they think people should react? The first episode doesn't say anything about it. About 5 minutes into the second, there is a scene where Vanya is looking for extracts about the women from the past in newspapers. We see flashbacks of the past including Sissy saying something like "You don't even notice the box that you're in til someone lets you out." Soon after, we see her getting a haircut We then see her talking to 3 of her brothers and one of them makes a comment about her hair. She then tells them about meeting with one of the Sparrow family in the previous episode and they ask her something addressing her as Vanya. She says "It's uh Viktor." One of them says after a slightly awkward pause "who's Viktor?" She says "I am, it's who I've always been" and after another awkward pause, she says "Uh, is that an issue for anyone?" Obviously, they say this is fine, and accept this no questions asked like obedient sheep. So this is how we're supposed to react if someone comes out as trans, don't question it at all. It just adds to this belief that anyone who expresses any suggestion of being trans is trans. Also to TiPs who watch this that if their family doesn't react like this then they are bigots. It is just going to push these people further away from their parents who are not reacting in the way TRA would like. And it's also scary how seemingly she just literally realized this same day and now she knows she is trans 100% no questions asked Later in the episode, she tells Allison. We don't actually see her telling Allison. but we see their conversation immediately after. Allison says things like "why didn't you tell me sooner, I can't believe I never realized, I feel like such an asshole." Because obviously this is what you are thinking after a sibling comes out as trans. Vanya/Viktor says "you couldn't have known as I didn't fully...She opened something in me. Showed me I'd never be free hiding from who I really am...I just can't live in that box anymore" Even more scarily she says "you know I always hated mirrors, I thought everyone felt so strange in their skin. I guess that's not true right?" How can the producers not see the problem with this? She is literally saying that if you hate looking at yourself in the mirror and feel insecure about your body, this means you're trans? How can they not see how this could affect an insecure teenager? So many people don't like looking at themselves in the mirror Allison now asks: "What do you see now?" Vanya/Viktor says "Me. Just me." At this point, she's (in the show at least) literally just had a haircut. You can tell throughout even in the first episode that she's on testosterone but they don't want you to think that and in the show, she's just had a haircut. Now she is suddenly okay with her body just with a haircut which is just crazy. Allison now is completely accepting and says something like "Thanks for trusting me with this...there's nothing that would make me love you less." At this point, I just stopped watching I was just somewhat curious as to how bad it was going to be.

94 comments

I just watched up to roughly this point, and I have to say that the way they handled Vanya's transition seemed incredibly true to life!

She chooses a point in time when everyone's situation is tense and dire. Her sister is literally grieving her daughter, who does not exist in this timeline, after a traumatic visit to the child her husband had with someone else.

"I'm traaaaaans," husks Viktor in his best deep man voice, after getting his manly haircut. "I hope no one has a problem with me processing these feelings in the middle of all this other stuff."

"No, of course not," everyone else says. "We love the boxes we live in, but you are so special. Way to special Ellen, I mean Viktor."

"Beer," Viktor intones with his deep throat box, to show that he is a man. "Race cars. Punching. Stoic face. I'm so hungry for grilled meat."

Then everyone starts clapping.

I admittedly never found Ellen Page to be a particularly gifted actresses, but the fact that this show has literally had to change her character multiple times because she can't figure out how to play someone who isn't exactly like her is kind of amusing. I'm really relieved I never watched it.

If she can't play anyone who isn't exactly like herself, why is she an actress? That's my question. Because being a version of yourself with a different name isn't acting.

Didn't you know? If an actor plays a character different from the real identity, that's appropriation!

I mean, Page is hardly the first shitty actor/actress to luck into success.

Her problem was that she was only good at playing one specific archetype. And she was quickly aging out of said archetype when she conviently discovered her inner Man Soul.

Hollywood is not kind to females past the age of 35 (ESPECIALLY if they don't have to skill to change it up and take on mature roles). And I can't help wondering if that factored into Page's desire to try and become a teenage boy

She started as a child actress, then got roles in bigger films (Juno, X-Men) because they needed to shoehorn in Canadian talent to get those tax credits. The Canadian system doesn't cultivate talent because they're too busy making sure union members don't have to wait tables, so there's limited choice.

There are plenty of men who just play the same character over and over again. It's a good business move for them. I don't know why more women don't do it. But then she isn't an action actress, which is probably why.

But that might not have been a serious question.

cough Ryan Reynolds cough

as much as I always enjoy his "same character". Canadian actors are pretty much a joke tho lets be real.

There are a lot of actors out there who aren't particularly skilled at the craft but have charisma or screen presence, and audiences still respond to them so they get work.

My take is that there are four major kinds of actors: truly skilled actors who can disappear into any role (these are very unusual); actors who can disappear into particular archetypes but struggle with anything else; actors who are obviously Acting!, but their performances are so entertaining or engrossing, it doesn't matter; actors who have screen presence but can't really embody a different person.

I don't necessarily mind that Elliot is the latter, but I do think it's funny in the context of her transition since she's doing an astonishingly poor job pretending to be a man. Laverne Cox is like this as well and acts as he is: an effeminate gay man.

Tbf if she's going to take testosterone then she can't really play Vanya as before

I dont watch the show, what else did they have to change for her?

[–] immersang 6 points Edited

They made her character a lesbian in season 2. Or, I guess, maybe bisexual. It's never explicitly stated whether the straight romance she had in season 1 was her really being into the guy and her lesbian relationship in season 2 makes her bi, or if she realized that she's actually into women only. I personally interpreted it as the latter.

Either way, her character is neither bi nor lesbian in the comic book series the show is based on afaik. Seems like they shoehorned this in last season for her sake.

[–] pennygadget 2 points Edited

Seems like they shoehorned this in last season for her sake.

Pre-transition Ellen made a big stink about only playing "queer" roles from then on. So I assume she pressured UA to make her character a lesbian (and then, post-transition Ellen made them alter the character yet again to be trans).

If she decides to be vegan next week, Vanya/Victor's character will start giving animal rights lectures in every episode. LOL

This entire thing disrespects both Vanya the character, and Sissy the character. Vanya's story arc is what happens when men fear powerful girls, they pump them full of drugs, make them think they're worthless, crazy and make them small at every turn. Her entire arc was about breaking free from control, from feeling ordinary and inferior. Breaking free from Reginald and then from her creppy abusive bf. Breaking free of her conditioning . She wasn't a perfect character but the way she was treated was too damn real to the female experience.

And then you have Sissy, dealing with a son who is deemed not "normal". Her being not "normal" and being in a suffocating marriage, in a time where people don't see or care about her. She's a lesbian and she finds freedom and love in Vanya. Vanya finds healthy connection and love in Sissy. They heal each other, despite their ending being painful.

So when you say this is Vanya's true awakening, that Sissy was just used to make her realize she's really a "man". When you imply Sissy was attracted to a "man" in a woman's body, you erase and diminish these women. You destroy two characters, just to say that the male is superior to the female. You destroy any character building and story arc. It's pathetic and it's deluded. I

It's not just this show, it's the entire idea they're feeding to children. "What's that? You're going through puberty and your body is changing and makes you feel weird? That means you were born in the wrong body! Just pay us for the surgery and the hormones that will totally have no side effect ever! Buying surgery and hormones from is the only way to make yourself feel good! Do not listen to anyone who tells you that you need to sort out your insecurities, that's called CONVERSION THERAPY! The only solution for being unhappy with your body is our surgery and hormones! Buy now! And don't forget to follow the sexist stereotypes! Unless you're non-binary! Then you're the only special group of people who are free from sexist stereotypes"

Smh, kids are going through puberty their bodies are changing in new weird ways of course they'll feel weird.

They consulted with GLAAD when writing this storyline, so this is the cult approved version of how they see transitioning.

It really has that workplace training video vibe to it! It’s so jarring and out of place to just throw it into the narrative, and the hamfisted “do and think this because it’s correct and enlightened” attitude is DEFINITELY not how the characters in this situation would actually react!

In reality they’d probably be like “really, Vanya? Again? Can you get off your bullshit while we sort out the problem with the Sparrows instead of making them think we’re even more feeble, affected and pathetic? Like just for a LITTLE while maybe? Apologize to your sister for doing this RIGHT after she visited her not-daughter. Also please eat something, you could kill someone with your jawbone if you emotionally tilt it the wrong way.”

Not only that, it would be more interesting from a writing/dramatic standpoint if at least ONE character pushed back on Vanya's new identity and wasn't immediately on board with it. Even if they joined the hivemind later; at least it would cause an interesting conflict.

But they can't do that because Princess Ellen's ego is too fragile. So her character has to be fawned over like a Mary Sue in a 12 year old's fan-fiction.

[–] Medusa91 3 points Edited

Grand

(I say this with a huge sarcastic tone in my voice)

So... a haircut and a name change are gender?

... and being same sex attracted means you're actually born into the wrong body. 🙄

Was it ever something else?

I haven't seen the show yet but I might end up in the room while others are watching it, so in bracing myself)

So.. a haircut and a name change are gender?

Apparently, I was a boy for my entire middle school years. LOL

[–] no- 27 points

Way to ruin a good character. A trans identity is not a replacement for character development, there’s nothing more boring than making a hero journey out of the most vapid form of self-absortion currently trending.

Right? That's exactly why I won't watch anything with a trans character in it. I want good writing with meaningful story lines and complex characters. Trans people offer none of that. You might as well be watching reality TV.

I also just fucking hate it when they introduce trans/nonbinary/asexual characters who then go on to attempt to "educate" the audience.

That's when I stop watching and delete the timer.

I am sick of [mostly crappy] shows trying to indoctrinate me. It is patronizing and insulting to the audience's intelligence.

I didn't much care for season one, and will not watch seasons two, three, or any subsequent seasons.

ugh like when they made that one character from star trek discovery non binary and she proceeded to ask everyone to call her a they/them

[–] no- 13 points

Exactly. That's the problem with Jules from Euphoria. All the other characters have personalities and struggles. Jules? Being trans is all he has going for him, that's his entire identity and character arc. He's also boring because since it's not allowed to portray a trans character in a negative way, he's pretty much a Mary Sue.

At least it's realistic. Trans people have nothing going for them. Their personality, interests, and hobbies are all trans. That's all they talk about, it's all they suddenly know, and it's all they become. And it's so fucking boring.

Also, all the characters MUST talk about how cool and amazing and perfect Jules is despite him being kind of ugly, uninteresting and unintelligent. He literally just wears knee socks and that's like his entire personality.

Even though I’m a big old TERF I tried to watch and enjoy Euphoria, including Jules. I found myself really distracted by the need to make him the most special precious baby angel in the cast, and creating the impression that everyone wants to be his friend and/or fuck him when not much really recommends him personally.

They kind of touch on his need for attention and histrionic tendencies but not nearly enough for the hyper-sexual AGP they’ve written, whether or not they meant to.

I just watch a clip of her with Seth Meyers. It was disturbing. She sounds like a boy who's voice is breaking and looks exhausted and deeply sad while expressing her profound joy and forcing herself to smile big.

But, hey, she's always been a man and also has always been at war with Eastasia!

I would also like to point out thar Vanya is a male or both-sexes name in the vast majority of places where it is a name.

I would also like to point out thar Vanya is a male or both-sexes name in the vast majority of places where it is a name.

"But Manly Man Elliott can't have a gross, girly "A" at the end of his character's name!! It'll trigger his dysphoria and he'll literally die!!!!"

Thank you! That's one of the things that's been driving me up the wall, even if it's trivial compared to the transition piece. Even if you're not familiar with the various Russian/Slavic diminutive forms of names, surely you've heard of or had to read Uncle Vanya?

Came here to say this :D honestly these people need to read a book

I always thought this too. Just change your name to ivan then...

That is just so dumb. So what...first she was a straight woman, then she was a lesbian, and now she is a man. No one would react like that to someone that they knew completely as a woman, saying ooops, nope I am a man.

Forget the trans thing. Nobody would be that mellow about a loved one making that many major changes in the frame of less than 3 years.

"So Vanya is a lesbian? Ok. Wait, you're straight again.? That's fine, I guess. What? You're straight now because you were a man all along!?!? How.....WTF!?"

Did she identify as straight twice? Like, before she transitioned?

Tangential but I feel like that's bisexuality. Bisexual people can go through periods of only being oriented to one sex or another for years even though it's not typical.

sigh. I love umbrella academy to death. I read the comics, I really did love seasons 1 and 2. I’m trying my best to ignore this whole thing so it doesn’t ruin the show for me but is really hard not to. it doesn’t make sense at all, it made me hate ellen page (which was someone I used to look up to a lot) so much for her self centered behavior and gigantic ego. ugh. I might simply not watch season 3 and pretend this shit never happened and continue with my life, I’m just so disappointed at the producers and at gerard and gabriel for letting this happen to their story. :(

I might simply not watch season 3 and pretend this shit never happened and continue with my life

That's where I ended up at.

And it hurts, because even though I did not read the comic books, I do have some "emotional investment" in the show: A friend introduced it to me shortly after season 1 had come out, and we actually watched it while travelling together. In the evenings, in our airBnB. So, I very much connect it with memories of this wonderful vacation.

I also generally enjoyed both season 1 and 2 quite a lot.

Sigh. "Trans" truly manages to ruin everything.

It is hard for them as they had a lot of pressure from TRAs, it's hard for her to play Vanya as before if she is taking testosterone and they can't just write her out of the story or get a different actress without getting so many complaints. I don't think the producers can really avoid making her transition in the story too and there is no logical way of doing it. It is almost entirely Page's fault and the TRAs. But they could deffo have done it better and the way they did it is not only ridiculous but also really dangerous. I guess it's only probably 5 minutes of nonsense per episode but it is still a lot and just so dumb. But the actual plot is basically the same but it's just annoying

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