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DiscussionThe Squid Game 2 TIM
Posted December 27, 2024 by strawberry in Television

is anyone watching it? there's quite a few terfy moments in regards to that character and I'm finding it hilarious

37 comments

RadicalPajamasDecember 30, 2024

I just started watching yesterday and I'm currently at episode 5. It bothers me so much that this character was included. I especially hate how he assaulted player 044, a woman, in the middle of their game even if she froze up in fear. The fact that it was another young woman player who turned to him for help in episode 4 reinforced "be kind, handmaiden". He talks about still needing surgeries. And then TIM votes to keep playing and screws everyone in his group over. There's not a single redeeming quality there.

ArenlaefDecember 28, 2024

It was kind wild that there's contestants playing to save their children from dying from cancer or give their unborn babies a better start to life than they had and then this guy's motivation is "I want to be hot and move to Thailand."

And the showrunners seemed to genuinely find that motivation compelling? There's one young woman sobbing because she wants to quit the game and not die, another one who is pregnant realizing that no amount of money will matter if she's dead, and the trans character votes to keep going...dooming hundreds of people in the process, because he wants to be beautiful. Wow.

It would be one thing if the narrative was like "See how shallow this guy is and how much he doesn't care about the vulnerable people who want to survive?" except this character is clearly meant to be seen as a hero. Very tone death.

niffinJanuary 14, 2025

It would be one thing if the narrative was like "See how shallow this guy is and how much he doesn't care about the vulnerable people who want to survive?" except this character is clearly meant to be seen as a hero.

I agree. I initially thought that maybe they were going to be "sensible old woman speaks truth and gives no fucks", but she quickly warms to him and treats him like adopted family, while happily engaging him when he tags along to the women's restroom in the middle of the night after she pleads with the guard, and then being like, "oh you go get your giant boobs; enjoy yourself!"

I don't know why I expected more from Squid Game though. The sympathetic female characters are always male-gazey conventionally attractive and somehow always perfectly make-up'd despite being sleep-deprived and imprisoned with no personal belongings. I guess it's the anti-capitalist notes that the show keeps pounding, makes me think there should be some Marxist principles being taken seriously, but no...After season two, I think that even the anti-capitalist themes are not taken that seriously, but rather just played for emotional resonance.

SatanicPanicDecember 29, 2024

tone death

I know this is a typo, but I love it 💖

ArenlaefDecember 29, 2024

haha, I didn't catch that one. I meant deaf obviously, but somehow death works too.

vulvapeopleDecember 31, 2024

Seems pretty accurate though.

DietCokeAddictDecember 28, 2024

I kept forgetting he’s supposed to be trans lol - (spoilers) especially when he goes full soldier in the later episodes, giving orders and instructions to the other men and they all listen to him.

The main thing I don’t like about his character is most of the characters have interesting flaws, but he doesn’t seem to have any whatsoever, which feels forced and agendaesque.

Other players are in debt from gambling, embezzling or other vices, but so far he’s been portrayed as a perfect blameless person who is only in financial trouble due to medical debt and losing his job/family/friends when he transitioned.

Other players are at times violent or cowardly or inept, but he’s cooperative and brave and generally super-competent at everything. He’s even nice to the mother and doesn’t mind her asking “transphobic” questions.

It’s feels a bit “Okay, we have to have a trans character, but they’re not allowed to do anything negative or have any negative traits” which is a bit boring.

snailsDecember 28, 2024

even if the show doesn’t portray it that way, that medical debt is 100% his own fault lmfao

seasaltcookieDecember 28, 2024(Edited December 28, 2024)

I haven't watched so I don't have any personal thoughts, but I'm kinda surprised by the reactions here being rather positive. The reaction to season 2 is pretty negative in Korea and I've seen criticism about how the female characters are all tied to the identity of motherhood (very typical Korean male writing of women) and the only "woman" with real depth and exploration is this TIM.

I have to tell you, it's very possible that they will make the TIM the ultimate sympathetic hero/martyr. Overall Korean culture has yet to be swallowed up by the TRAs, but they're constantly trying. They've already passed at least one trans-friendly law, and a TIM celebrity won an award for female entertainers. It's the fact that general Korean society is still very conservative so TRAs can't go crazy, and the fact that radfem/rad-fem aligned feminists have a much stronger voice and presence, that's keeping Korean media from completely catering to the TRAs.

But there has been TRA-friendly TIP characters in Korean media already, and this is the worst yet in terms of reach. Ugh. I get the vibe they're catering to the "poltiical correctness" of the Western audience, not aware winds are changing here. But funny isn't, that as long as they have the sacred cow that is a transwoman, they know that Westerners won't complain about mediocre writing for female characters and predatory male actors with controversies filling the cast. I can only hope that radfem presence continues to grow in Korea and resist the TRAs.

(BTW, unfortunately not many Korean radfems seem to know the true nature of the surgeries and HRT, or even AGP very much. Koreans don't really know what being trans is truly like, in comparison to peaked Westerners, because there hasn't been a similar kind of social contagion in Korean society. Most Koreans don't know a TIP personally. But still, I've seen news about TIM crimes, TIMs in sports, and how they harass lesbians etc. translated, and they're enough to peak people.)

EdelgardDecember 28, 2024

I can't say anything about Squid Game since I don't watch it, but I'm always surprised when ovarettes expect anything trans critical to come out of mainstream shows. We're really, really not there yet.

Carrots90December 29, 2024

Korea is undergoing a population collapse. They don’t do immigration as much as the west. I see why they’re trying to push motherhood eye roll.

MignonetteDecember 28, 2024

Haven't watched it yet, but I've seen the TIMs over on reddit seething because the transwoman is being played by a man. I've been enjoying their outrage over being confronted with reality far more than I suspect I'll enjoy the second season.

crodishJanuary 3, 2025

It's funny that they're malding instead of celebrating it. How do they know this opportunity won't crack this beautiful lady's egg???

LyricalAlchemyDecember 28, 2024

That is hilarious! I love when their little bubble bursts and shows them their true reality.

OneStarWolfDecember 27, 2024

I just started it yesterday and my family immediately clocked and giggled at the dude in the bad wig.

We’re only on episode 3, but yeah I totally agree with the mother — A man is a man and a woman is a woman 🤣 I kept wondering if Netflix forced the hand of the creator to put this bullshit in, they must have.

In any case, it looks like it may have backfired, lol. S.Korea isn’t known for being “woke” at all, that’s for sure. I’m thinking at best he gets a paper thin backstory and some contrived martyr scene where a side female character comments about how “womanly” his soul must’ve actually been or some nonsense. We’ll see!

IridescenceDecember 31, 2024

My partner clocked it at the voice... the English subtitles on Netflix call it [woman 1] and both of us did a double take, because it was so obviously male.

pennygadgetDecember 28, 2024

I kept wondering if Netflix forced the hand of the creator to put this bullshit in, they must have.

I bet money that they did

sylviasmushroomsDecember 28, 2024

Malicious compliance at its finest, sounds like!

strawberry [OP]December 27, 2024

I honestly believe they're making fun of the whole thing lmao, especially in ep 4. it's not really a spoiler but he stands next to an actual woman and he looks ridiculous towering over her 😂 and the part where he slaps the lady for freaking out

pennygadgetDecember 27, 2024

Can you spoil it? I'm curious. But I don't have the time/interest to watch Squid Game

flipendoughDecember 28, 2024(Edited December 28, 2024)

Season 2 showed the transwoman entering the women's bathroom with an old lady and a pregnant lady

pregnant lady wanted to pee then the old lady wants to accompany her, old lady told the guards transwoman is a lady too. But it's obvious the old lady wants the transwoman to protect the 3 of them.

Season 2 also showed a brawl, all-male violence inside the men's bathroom. With a close up shot of the male bathroom door.

strawberry [OP]December 30, 2024

I still love the part where they compared his shallow struggles to the real (pregnant) woman crying in the bathroom because she's scared about the pregnancy/her and her child's life.

NastasyaFillipovnaDecember 28, 2024

Same. Season 1 is in my watchlist for quite sometime now

OneStarWolfDecember 28, 2024(Edited December 28, 2024)

After finishing the full season 2 now, some thoughts:

- sad that it’s really only half a season and being stretched for a 3rd season

- the beginning episodes of this season were way better than the later ones, probably in part because of the story being lengthened into a 3rd season

- the TIM storyline feels pretty forced, cringey, and out of style at this point

strawberry [OP]December 28, 2024(Edited December 28, 2024)

I spoke too soon y'all lol they're trying to make you more sympathetic to him in ep 5 but we'll see

strawberry [OP]December 28, 2024(Edited December 28, 2024)

okay wait, but there is a scene where he's looking himself in the mirror and getting sad about his looks when the grandma interrupts him and asks him if the pregnant woman is out of the bathroom yet and she opens her door and finds out she was in there crying because she's scared. i can't help but wonder if that was put there to show what real women deal with lol

OneStarWolfDecember 28, 2024(Edited December 28, 2024)

I thought the same lol. Big contrast between the hulking man in womanface and two actual women, one pregnant and scared for her and her future child, the other an elderly mother that understands the reality of their female biology and situation. This dude was such a joke, especially in the last episodes where he goes full man-mode Rambo for the group, haha. Guess I’ll have to wait until season 3 for his big martyr, look how pious and womanly I am scene 🥱

strawberry [OP]December 28, 2024

omg yes in the last couple of episodes lmao i wonder if they were trying to say that he can't escape his man-ness/who he is. honestly the entire season it seemed like they were trying to say that with his character

niffinJanuary 14, 2025

I dunno, I think they were trying to make him into a sympathetic hero. The ex-marine guy who played gonggi (the dice/stone throwing game in episode 4 "Six Legs") is acting embarrassed about being incredibly good at what is portrayed as a "little girl's game." But when he reveals himself to be amazing at it, everyone's super supportive and no quips are made. I think they're trying to both play with the hyper-masculine soldier stereotypes, while also showing that these hyper-masculine archetypes can also do "feminine stuff" and still be "cool hyper-masculine archetypes." I think that this is what's going on with the TIM character too. Wanting to get big boobs and "complete his operations" does not actually threaten his masculine standing, thus going full rambo (and acknowledged as top soldier by the ex marines) in the season finale. I don't think the show runners are framing this as a liberation from gender, but rather flouting of male dominance through gender.

agentdebordDecember 29, 2024

They’re definitely playing the TIM as sympathetic to appeal to western audiences. If they didn’t it probably wouldn’t even air outside Korea. It’s a shame because I thought Korea generally didn’t put up with this bs.

strawberry [OP]December 29, 2024

I agree that they were trying to make us sympathetic to him, but I don't think it was in a way a TIM/tra would want. The whole time it felt like they were saying "we still see you as a man but we'll be nice...and you can't escape you're maleness" lol. at least that's how I interpreted his scenes

girlcrooshDecember 27, 2024

Haven’t gotten past the first episode yet, but it wouldn’t surprise me if the TIM occupies the same role that Ali did in the first season. An outsider in Korean society who finds unlikely partnership in the squid game only to be betrayed by said partner in a devastating way.

I can give the story a chance since he’s being played by a male actor, but the actor’s gonna have to do a good job of convincing me to feel sorry for someone risking an absurd and terrifying death for cosmetic surgery.

sylviasmushroomsDecember 28, 2024(Edited December 28, 2024)

someone risking an absurd and terrifying death for cosmetic surgery.

I really enjoyed season 1. The color and absurdity of the premise worked for me and I don’t think it’s quite the COVID time capsule that, say, Tiger King ended up being.

As soon as I heard there was a TIM and this was his backstory, though, I realized that it’s a time capsule for another bygone phenomenon: the notion that these surgeries are truly life and death, or that they’re not a sign of a deep and awful mental illness that makes one self-centered enough to ignore not only the harm done to themselves in its pursuit but the harm done to others.

Squid Game doesn’t frame people the narrative considers selfish kindly. What’s more selfish than not only endangering yourself but everyone else in the games just to indulge a delusion? Is this how heroes, especially female heroes, are usually written? Would a female character who has a terrible disfigurement she wants to correct (or, well, it’s South Korea, maybe she’s just aging normally) be treated as heroic and deserving, or totally vain? Even the trans characters in Orange is the New Black and Nip/Tuck (remember that?) come across as selfish or at least having really stupid priorities in TTYOOL 2024.

I’m looking forward to watching this because it sounds like maybe they’re writing a character who’s actually compelling. Trans identity or no, that’s literally all I care about.

strawberry [OP]December 27, 2024

I just started ep 5 and so far I've been enjoying the direction they're going with for him. Don't know if it'll change later on of course but I say give it a chance because it's really funny how obviously male he's being portrayed as so far

goldenheartccDecember 28, 2024

As soon as the English dub actor opened his mouth i knew. Now I don't think he's a bad character as an effeminate man, but there was some real TRA boot licking for Korea here :/

sylviasmushroomsDecember 28, 2024

I was on the fence about watching it but I think I’ll boot this up tonight as background noise for my gaming grind!

strawberry [OP]December 28, 2024

come back with your thoughts when you do! i'd love to hear them