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My god, I hate how “intersex” now apparently=trans, because it fucking doesn’t.

That’s like looking at a person of mixed race, who has their own struggles of feeling that they don’t belong to one particular community or another and discrimination from both sides of their extended family, and deciding that it proves that Rachel Dolezal was legit.

And even there, a big difference is that while there’s obviously nothing wrong with intersex people, they’re not freaks or people who need to be fixed because they’re broken, we do have to acknowledge that being intersex is an anomaly. Just like any other unusual congenital condition is. Saying that intersex people exist, so, now sex is a spectrum and nobody’s really male or female is ludicrous. Re-defining intersex as any woman struggling with infertility or any man with a small penis is just fucking insulting actual intersex people.

Intersex people were subjected to a lot of “correction” previous to today. They were seen as broken people who needed to be fixed so they could conform to a social gender role. So why the fuck would the TRA movement appropriate their struggle in an attempt to validate their own re-enforcement of gender roles? Oh, right, because it’s convenient.

It pisses me off just as much as when some TIM decides my right to gynecological care is about him, and uses my need for such care as “proof” that he has a right to free hormones. Don’t ever fucking take someone else’s UNRELATED struggle and twist it so it’s about you.

Couldn't agree more. TRAs distort the statistics as well, but treating DSDs as if their existence had anything to do with being trans is an insult in itself. I do admire the bravery of people with DSDs who will go public with really private, intimate information about themselves in order to correct these bizarre dogmas. There was a young man in the UK who had to leave Twitter and social media because he was getting so harassed for doing precisely this.

https://archive.md/cE6y4

There's infinitely rare cases of ovotestes in humans, but my understanding is that either the ovaries or the testes don't work. That is, the structures may be there for both, but only one structure is functional. To my understanding, no human being has ever produced both ova and sperm.

A few cases are reviewed here:

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/14268028/

Unfortunately no abstract is available, so I can't tell what "true hermaphroditism" means in terms of production of gametes. I have read elsewhere that the resulting organ either doesn't function or produces only one or the other—in any case, there's no third gamete.

I couldn't get this article either, but here's a different report on a case of true hermaphroditism, defined as having "testicular and ovarian tissue": https://sci-hub.st/https://doi.org/10.1016/S0022-5347(17)59743-8

Great, thanks! The fact that we have to spend time reading about the vanishingly small percentages of people with a DSD that actually might affect their sexual appearance and rôle in later life shows how far the clownfishery has come—while the many women with PCOS, whose lives really are deeply affected by their illness, never get a look in.

[–] Yemaya 21 points Edited

Why do they always say “there’s women walking around with XY chromosomes and don’t KnOw it.”? Correct me if I’m wrong but an intersex woman with XY chromosomes probably wouldn’t ever menstruate and would eventually find out why.

I hate how they act like we all need our chromosomes tested to know. It’s all just a big mystery for all of us. I menstruate and I have been pregnant before I’m pretty sure I know what my chromosomes are.

There are complete androgen insensitive males who are the women they are talking about and who find out about their condition in exactly that manner. I still think they are women personally. They are all socialized as girls until they are in their late teens, and their bodies are female phenotypically, but for the lack of uterus and ovaries. We are women because of our bodies.... it doesn't mean male bodied people can be women even if some genetic males do actually have female bodies due to a genetic defect. They are the exception that proves the rule IMHO.

They're the only group of people that I'm OK with calling women even though they aren't female. But that's such a rare disorder and it's completely irrelevant to trans people anyway

Agreed, so uncommon it is almost not worth mentioning. But as I say, it does prove the rule that it's your body that makes you female as in your phenotype. Almost no genetic males have phenotypically female bodies, no matter how they slice dice or pump them full of hormones. CAIS is the one and only exception, because they are phenotypically female.

[–] EternaEspiral transbian=rapist 8 points Edited

They also act as if "intersex" conditions were these super chill things that have no discernible symptoms and fail to mention how many of them are so bad they are incompatible with life and the babies born with them die, and some adults with them have a myriad of health concerns.

Edit: So I went looking and indeed, a person with Swyer's Syndrome (Aka a person with XY chromosomes, which, depending on the mutation, can have external female genitalia and sometime's also some internal female structures -no ovaries- and are genetically male) does not produce ova and cannot menstruate, it can be induced through medication for health purposes, and pregnancy is possible with a donor's ova (as again, they don't produce any of their own) and some sperm, the fetus is made in vitro and the implanted, and there has to be a constant medicalization throughout the pregnancy so the body actually goes through it.

They are literally males with vaginas and sometimes uteruses, but still male.

They never expect anyone to actually read their citations, the few times they provide them.

Unfortunately, they're usually right.

Mistakingly cites paper on sex in crustaceans to make his point that there ARE human beings who produce both ova and sperm...now, THAT'S embarrassing.

Crab people, crab people...

(Anyone here watch south park?)

This is...even funnier in the context of the episode where crab people showed up.

Well played!

Image Transcription: Twitter


Colin Wright, @ SwipeWright

From @ stevennovella's recent article in @ ScienceBasedMed titled "The Science of Biological Sex," he's discussing human biology and says that some intersex people "can make both eggs and sperm" (LEFT).

But the citation he gives is about crustaceans (RIGHT). sciencebasedmedicine.org/the-science-of...

[Two images of text. Some phrases have been highlighted in yellow, here bolded.]

biological sex. There are a host of epigenetic factors at play, including hormone levels at different stages of development, hormone receptor sensitivity, and metabolic factors. All of these influence the development of sexual characteristics, which can vary along a spectrum. For example, there are XY females who are chromosomal males but develop mostly or entirely female because of androgen insensitivity. There are, essentially, women walking around who have no idea they have XY chromosomes.

Let's move on to the primary sexual characteristics, which are essentially the internal reproductive organs and external genitalia; for females that is ovaries, uterus, and vagina, for males it is testes, prostate and penis. Do these characteristics vary in a strictly binary or bimodal way? When it comes to gametes, these are strictly binary — egg or sperm. However, even here there are intersex individuals with “ovotestes”, some of which can make both eggs and sperm. But, it is fair to say when it comes to reproduction, the system is binary, but sex is about more than reproduction


Sexual Systems

Thanumalaya Subramoniam Ph.D, D.5c, (Madras Univ); FNA, FNASc, FAAS, in Sexual Biology and Reproduction in Crustaceans, 2017

3.4 Protandric Simultaneous Hermaphroditism

An interesting aspect of protandric hermaphroditism in P. platyceros (described above) is that, at the completion of MP, degeneration of the testicular elements has occurred in the cortex of the ovotestes, which is followed by the onset of oogenesis in the medullar region, along with the formation ofthe oviduct (Hoffman, 1972). At the same time, the vas deferens containing fully matured spermatozoa as well as the male secondary sexual characters are all present in a functional way, indicating their behavioral ability to mate as males. Since the oocytes are fully mature and the oviducts are functional, these hermaphroditic individuals can also act as females. This kind of simultaneous hermaphroditism originating from a protandric MP was subsequently discovered in another caridean genus Lysmata by Bauer (2002), who rechristened it as protandric simultaneous hermaphroditism (PSH). PSH is defined as the sexual pattern, in which individuals first mature as a male and, with increasing size, it molts to a simultaneous hermaphrodite or “euhermaphrodite,” which can reproduce both as a male and female without self-fertilization. Unlike strict protandric carideans, Lysmata PSH retains reduced male gonadal tissues and ducts and are able to mate nonreciprcicaily as males as well as to reproduce as females. Although all the Lysmata species are functional protandric simultaneous hermaphrodites, most of their reproductive efforts are devoted to embryo production and

Individuals = crabs 🦀

That is some maaaaajor wordy slight of hand. How the hell did any editor in their right mind publish this garbage. I work with medical literature every day. I've become so disillusioned. There's so little science left in some areas of medical research.

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