Considering how politically divided this issue is, a long time. They canāt drop trans without admitting that the other side was right. The public stance of the āright-side of historyā is that any criticism of trans, any desire for debate is coming from a place of bigotry and hatred. Walking that back is going to be rough.
I don't think any of the politicians who have publicly advocated for this can walk it back easily. But individual politicians can be replaced. The more outspoken ones will eventually lose their seats. There will be new politicians who are critical of it. Once there is sufficient turnover then it will be easier for the party to take a stance of opposing it because then the can still claim the new party is on the right side of history and it was the old party that wasn't.
I think this is the most likely path. Turnover.
Hard to say. Plenty of US politicians were against fay marriage, such as Obama and Biden, and have since āevolvedā over the issue
the can still claim the new party is on the right side of history and it was the old party that wasn't.
God I hope not. I hope they will realize how much damage this kind of thinking and rhetoric does to society, women, children and to themselves. I think itās possible that people will learn from this and try to do better, although Iām not holding my breath.
The people who caused the damage are similar to the people who transed their own kids. Helen Joyce said that they will believe in this bullshit until their death bed because the alternative is to face the reality that they're monsters.
Once they are out of power and can no longer hurt anyone then I don't care too much about what they think of themselves. Certainly it would be nice for them to have remorse. It would be nice for them to work towards cleaning up the damage that they caused. But what is more important is that the people who replace them speak openly about the damage rather than covering it up. As a society we need a reckoning about how misogynistic it was because otherwise the next generation will be horribly misogynistic but it doesn't matter too much if we have that message coming from new politicians or the ones who have been voted out.
Iām not really thinking about the worst TRAs, I agree that other people will take their place. What I donāt want is the new people having the same immovable belief that everything their side does is good and everything the other side does is bad. That attitude is a problem that goes beyond the trans issue.
Those on the left who support it (I'm left but I don't) have convinced themselves to fully believe supporting trans rights is morally superior and they LOVE feeling morally superior so they're not going to drop it.
The DNC had the PERFECT shot in August-September at walking it back, but we all saw how they did.
They cynically proceeded to trot out abortion ban horror story after reproductive difficulty sob story across the stage, meanwhile taking care to be seen riding above the āhatefulā reality that men arenāt women.
It was beyond insulting.
Yeah. Nobody wants to admit they were wrong. Especially the types of narcissists who run for office
Yeah they made this absolutely ridiculous bullshit that we should all agree on political, and now it's a "rightwing bogeyman" to believe sex is real, so they have to go on pretending the emperor is wearing clothes.
It's very grimly funny. I mean, not actually funny, but you guys get what I'm saying.
I actually think it will be pretty quick. I don't think the average American really ever believed this stuff deep down - they may have passively accepted it because they had better things to do than research depraved male sexual fetishes, but I believe that trans was a largely astro-turfed movement. Trump's presidency is the perfect time to let their support fade into the dust and pop back up in 2028 like it never happened.
That's exactly what I think. I don't think even a lot of politicians on that side, outside of the committed activist ones, believed it. I think they saw it as something irrelevant - something you farm off policy to the activists and interest groups because you want a kind progressive society but not to have to think about the details, because you're a serious person there to deal with big things like the economy and foreign policy. If the kids say we're playing at genders now, you just say the lines they want to hear.
Then it got too big, too powerful, and there's nothing they could do. Can't walk it back without your own side destroying you, but you've said the lines too many times for anyone else to trust you.
I think the SNP in Scotland have been a mini version of this - the party and key politicians publicly humiliated several times because they wanted to win the progressive vote. Now, after election losses and a change in leadership, they've gone quiet on that issue. No acknowledgement or apology, just quietly accepting defeat and not bringing it up again.
I don't think they'll ever drop fully drop it and see the problems it causes women and same sex attracted people. I don't think the democrats are going to continue to be the "progressive" party they tout themselves as. As in, they'll call themselves that but more and more people will see through their fauxgressivism.
Im kind of hoping were getting to a turning point where the conservative and liberal parties are both too extreme and reactionary for the average American and we finally start to see new parties forming so we can get rid of the gridlock that is the two party system. We can't go on much longer like this when both the major political parties fail to actually represent the general population. It's only going to get worse the poorer the average person gets.
The trans thing is basically the abortion of the right.
Picking up abortion was a very short-sighted plan. The truth is, most people want to keep abortion legal. They may not say it out loud, but they do. All the research shows this. "Pro-life" people always like to whine about how they "can't publicly say they're pro-life" but in this circumstance, the cancel culture actually goes the other way. Anti-choice people, in truth, can't shut up about how anti-choice they are. The real "silent majority" don't want to ban abortion.
But the Republicans invested so heavily in this issue trying to pick up short term religious votes that they can't drop it now without everyone noticing. Trump has admitted this and it was the first time he had to deal with conservative tantrums. He's right, though. It's a vote killer.
The Democrats could probably have an easier time dropping the trans thing, but not a whole lot easier. This was a fad to make them look shiny, new, and cutting edge. It was such a bad idea, though. Such a bad idea. I don't know how they're going to drop it, but they need to.
Or, like the Republicans, this is just going to be a thorn they keep in their side forever more, because it's too awkward to fix it.
They'll just stop mentioning it, slowly take off pronouns from emails, quietly support bills to allow sex segregation. I think that's already started happening (a little bit), and it'll keep on building.
But who knows, maybe there will be a huge social justice resurgence under Trump- although I don't think so, I think it'll be different this time.
But who knows, maybe there will be a huge social justice resurgence under Trump- although I don't think so, I think it'll be different this time.
The SJWs seem to be a lot less motivated to get out and tantrum now than they were in 2016. I don't know if its exhaustion or laziness
One of my relatives is a massive SJW, she basically told me that she's given up and is only getting involved in local politics now. (She also think that there are better-than-even odds of the country becoming a dictatorship in the next four years)
They will spend this year being so outraged about it, and the next two forgetting and paying lipservice to it whenever reminded.
Theyre going to let the Reps do the dirty work of walking it back and next election, if anyone brings it up they will say everyones rights need to be respected and case-by-case basis and similar empty words to soothe the nutters who still believe in gender by then, but do nothing of substance.
Basically the same playbook they use on womens rights
This is what I think will happen too, most likely some new fight will come along with less contention than gender woo and the Dems will jump on that.
Depends who runs in the primaries and what kinda on the record statements they gave to appease the gender cult. KH get tagged this cycle for an interview she gave like 4 years ago. It would be very difficult to walk back any statements without crazies going crazy
I predict a few phases for Democratic politicians.
a) Hold fast to moral outrage and continue pretending they're "on the right side of history" as long as they feel it's expedient
b) As research and pushback through mounting court cases increases, silence and refocusing on different issues
c) When "transing" reaches the place where it's impossible not to understand it as medical misadventure (historically joining the likes of lobotomies, DES, and "nonaddictive" opioids), dropping the issue and asserting we now know better
Timeline -- who knows? The electorate is ahead of the electeds on this one.
You may well be right on this . . .
I mean, I hope not. I'd like to see them face up to this now and get their heads straight (and get back in touch with their actual constituents). But here we are.
If I had to make bets, I'd say it'll happen after the Democrats suffer a few more devastating & humiliating losses. I'm talking something major like California flipping red (which isn't impossible since a lot of folks in California are FURIOUS at the Democrats for how they handled the recent devastating wildfires in LA). And they might be forced to finally change course if Vance is elected president in 2028
It would also take handmaidens like AOC being termed or voted out
LA fires are like the height of incompetency in the name of representation.
I saw a discussion about this and heard that Los Angeles needs to build SIXTY fire stations just to meet the average of what a city its size has in the U.S. The incompetence and neglect would be absolutely astounding in any city, but even more so because of the very real threat of fires in California.
Just another thing that if you point out all of the sudden you're "right wing" though.
It's pretty amazing that people would like us to sweep all of this bullshit under the rug in the name of owning the right or something.
What happened there? š I obviously know about the fires, but not so much about how they were handled
A lot of conservative propaganda being repeated here. Trump made many accusations, all of which were baseless. Some were insane.
The LA fires were terrible disasters and the city infrastructure was not meant to fight so many large fires at once. Things will change after this, but to blame Newsom is a conservative push. I dislike the man but misinformation (in addition to racism, misogyny, and other bigotries) got Trump elected.
The LA fire department has had issues with corruption, but the things Trump and others said - yeah. Not true.
Thank you.
And I would bet that most cities, if pushed on how prepared they are to fight whatever disaster that city is prone to, would come up short, because whichever party is in power they are motivated to not to spend the funds. I don't deny that politicians in LA didn't make the situation worse (why does the mayor need to travel to Ghana for an inauguration in the first place?), but it's a rare city that actually prepares to meet potential disasters. The GOP hit squad has it in for Newsom, but he isn't the legislature making laws--he merely signs them.
I am a westerner, and fires have been burning in much of the west since the US expansion (takeover) of the territory. Some places, like Colorado, were previously thought to have "fireproof forests," because of the the summer monsoons, cooler temperatures, and higher elevations. That is no longer true, and although the warnings have been out for decades, especially as warmer temperatures enabled multiple hatches of pine beetles and an increase in the spruce budworm population, and dead trees were left standing, there has not been sufficient attention and preparation. Much of this change in Colorado and in much else of the west has occurred on mostly federal forest lands, by the way, and it's Congress who hasn't appropriated funds for fire-fighting and thinning.
I can't believe that someone down voted your comment.
You spoke truth. The only thing I would add is that misguided management 50-100 years ago left us with too many trees. Now even trying to implement prescribed fires is difficult.
There aren't too many trees, there's too much brush (forest understory) and too many monocultures of trees, which are vulnerable to pest infestations ie what we see now all over the Rockies. This right-wing push to 'stop planting trees' or cut down more trees is only going to make climate issues worse, not to mention create catastrophic mudslides, especially in places like LA.
You also speak the truth. the Forest Service sometimes effs up massively, as the huge fire in New Mexico two years ago (I think two years ago) showed.
I don't take the downvotes seriously. Or to heart.
Its not propaganda. Los Angeles is horribly mismanaged by the Democrats who run the place. They pour money into boondoggles like homeless nonprofits that make the problem worse while the fire department is underfunded. And the state has gone to complete shit during Newsom's tenure
Some promotional videos of their assistant fire cheif were going viral after the fire, where she was saying her first focus would be promoting DEI or something. In another one, when someone asked if she would be able to carry someone's husband out of the fire, she said the husband was in the wrong to put himself in the situation where he needs to be rescued.
I think itās goingā¦ corporate money is what sustained it and corporate money is being withdrawn
Not to mention losing the propaganda war now that Twitter and Facebook/Meta are going in a more free speech direction
They may need to lose another major election before it sinks in. I voted 3-5 yrs.
We could be in the midst of a major reorganization of political parties at the moment too. Almost like Republicans and Democrats doing some historical flipping of sides. Interesting times ahead, so weāll see.
Same thinking. They would double down for now in the name of Trump Bad, and then lose next cycle as well. Their candidates in primary would be tagged with genderwoo questions, which Republicans would use in attack ads in general elections. It would be a miracle if the guy after trump doesn't gets a second term
It'll be especially interesting once boomers finally retire and/or die off. After the Biden fiasco, people are less tolerant of ancient politicians clinging to power far longer than they should
I'm also looking forward to seeing how the Republican Party will change now that disaffected liberals and moderates are flocking to them and attaining positions in the Trump administration (ie Gabbard and RFK)
RFK Jr is not a liberal or moderate. He may have been in the past, but that has changed. If people like him influence the GOP, it will only get worse than it already is.
Same with Gabbard, she's right wing but ran as a Democrat because Republicans were never going to elect a "Hindu" woman who grew up in a Hare Krishna cult run by a white man. Only Democrats are that "inclusive".
Almost like Republicans and Democrats doing some historical flipping of sides.
I've been thinking about this too.
It's not fear.
I hate to be a negative Nancy, but the problem is that there is an entire class of people whom it does not concern. They're also the people who can afford to be in favor of mass migration. They're simply not affected by the direct consequences, so they do not give a singular shit.
They may drop it for a hot minute to look cool, but the very second people stop stirring shit when they bring it up, they'll push it again. They're self proclaimed arbiters of social justice.
They'll have to lose at least one or two more elections, and it will have to be super obvious that the T issue is the reason why.
I think it will be dropped pretty soon, at least as something they publicly promote. They may still try to get a few riders passed quietly, but itās so obvious that the voice of the people has been heard that theyāll just start acting like they never pushed the trans agenda at all. Pure gaslighting to try to regain votes.
No politician wants a they/them moment on camera. Look what that one clip did to Harris's campaign. I expect a lot more platitudes and a lot more changing of the subject.
I voted 3-5 years, though I would have chosen 5-6 years if that had been an option. I think they'll suffer more political losses which will cause infighting and more people going silent on the issue. I think it will get dropped when climate catastrophes overwhelm the USA and other nations around the world to the point where luxury oppressions and other niche issues get swept aside by much bigger problems.
When they stop getting kickbacks from the likes of HRC and so on. Some lawsuits have to be won for detransitioners. You have to mess with these smug elitists' money before they change anything. Right now they're willing to die on the trans hill.
Sorry, what is HRC?
I know you donāt mean Hillary Rodham Clinton
Honestly, I think the Democratic party will have to be an almost completely new group of people from who we have now before they drop it. The ones in power currently don't show any signs that they'll ever let this go.
The only solution is waiting until they've all retired or been foisted out by voters. Then hopefully the new group who were never involved in trying to convince everyone that this is the literal most important civil rights issue of the millennium can quietly slink away from it and eventually discard it altogether.
Yes as a non American that is what it is looking like to me. If you did this intensive grand standing beforehand about "liderally saving millions of trans people from genocide" and declare this the defining civil rights issue of our century, it's just really hard to walk back. That's why the parents of "trans kids" will never change their mind. It's very similar to the extremely religious anti choice people. They can't just suddenly say oh you know what, I actually don't care about billions of "babies" being "slaughtered". I just don't see how someone like AOC would ever change her mind. It's a bit like the Pope suddenly saying you know what, I was wrong about god let's all be atheists.
Yes, I think it does have something to do with how fast people can slink. Or U-turn.
I think it depends on how badly they actually want to get into office, whether they want to inherit the shitstorm that's drifting ever closer to the fan. I think when they want to get back in, suddenly a "maverick" in the Democrats with arise and they'll be "forced" to change the course to allign with the will of the people.
But I think it all hinges on how dangerously bad things get globally. As it is, I suspect that the current arrangement might be working out well for Republicans and Democrats.
They will change if they keep losing. What good would it do to hang on to an ideology losing them votes? If they are dumb enough to keep it going they deserve what they get.
The million dollar question is: how many embarrassing losses will they have to face before they turn around? Will it take Vance winning in 2028 because they opted to run another lame "progressive" candidate instead of a more moderate choice (like Dean Phillips or Josh Shapiro)?
I think they will have to see election losses for those supporting gender ideology. & those politicians losing in primaries as well. It will have to be losing in primaries so that more moderate Dems become the Party leaders. Due to this reason as well as general wokeness. And it may take 2 election cycles.
And a lot depends on what happens under Trump. If prices rise due to tariffs, if things get too authoritarian, if the immigration-border issue doesn't get under control, people could turn back even to woke Democrats. And especially if the GOP goes after Social Security or Medicare.
Some of the "squad" lost due to anti-woke voters. Sherrod Brown lost, & one of the ads against him involved trans & school sports. And he had been in office a long time. And his GOP opponent insulted women with his statements on abortion. But I think it was anti-Democrat sentiment & seeing him as going along with extremist woke stuff. Especially considering that Ohio has voted in abortion rights by referendum. So it's not all conservatives that voted against him.
On the other hand, McBride got elected & the Dem party rewarded him.
But if TIMs or TIFs do whatever jobs they have competently, people will accept or support them in those positions. Whether that will normalize treating them as the opposite sex or there will be a line drawn-such as McBride retreating on using women's restrooms due to the GOP based rule, it will need constant vigilance to prevent basic rights from meaning TWAW.
On the other hand, McBride got elected & the Dem party rewarded him.
He did, but (just as a factor in that) Delaware is relatively tiny (less than one million residents), has only one congressional district, and has a relatively modest Democratic majority and a history of the Congressional representative's seat swinging back and forth between the two big parties. So this was probably far more about DNC tactics than what Delaware traditionally does in elections.
ETA Not that I'm an expert on Delaware. Love ya tho RBD. šļø
Also ETA Amended for clarity to say "seat" because one district = one seat.
Some of the "squad" lost due to anti-woke voters. Sherrod Brown lost, & one of the ads against him involved trans & school sports. And he had been in office a long time. And his GOP opponent insulted women with his statements on abortion. But I think it was anti-Democrat sentiment & seeing him as going along with extremist woke stuff. Especially considering that Ohio has voted in abortion rights by referendum. So it's not all conservatives that voted against him.
Good point. Republicans definitely are taking campaign notes for future elections based on that huge flip with Sherrod Brown. They will run lots of anti-gender ideology stuff in the future against democratic TRA loonies (and the GOP should win based on national polling, gender shit is barely popular with demās own base!). So democrats will have to put their money where their mouth is and go down with the ship or admit they chose to back the wrong horse.
I think if they lose more House seats in 2 years, they need to have a rethink.
To go to a specific state, Tim Walz is up for reelection next year and heās already done controversial moves such as allowing men in womenās prisons and making MN a trans refuge state.
MN was close to turning red this election cycle, Harris got 51% Trump 46%. (H. Clinton was even closer to losing MN)
I voted 1-2 years but I also thought 3-5 years.
I voted for 3-5 years.
Five years ago, I would have chosen the same option. I won't be surprised if the Democrats let me down again. But they're on the losing side, and I do think it's inevitable that they'll have to move on and forget they ever supported it eventually.
Tbh I think we will see it slowly fall out of mainstream support over the next 4 years.
They're already dropping it from what I perceive. Individual senators are now speaking openly against it. It's clearly a vote-loser.
So curious for this result
I'll reveal it tomorrow morning! :-)
Ha!!
Good poll
I guessed right, but Iām fascinated by the spread
.
This isn't dropping it. If someone can be fired for wearing blackface to work, why can't someone be fired for wearing womanface? What about the right of women to work in a non hostile work environment?
The whole thing is incredibly misogynistic. I don't consider it over until that is generally acknowledged.
THIS!
Cross-dressers shouldn't be thrown out of their apartments for wearing dresses. But its absurd to expect a workplace to play along with some dude's fetish.
That one employment case involving a TIM came from a funeral home. And, IMO, the employer was 100% correct in saying that having a man in drag hanging around would be upsetting for the customers who are coming in to bury their loved ones
Basic employment rights doesn't mean that you can come in drag. It means that you can't be fired for doing it in your free time. And that one I support.
On this side, I won't stop until these creeps have no place in education.
I DO NOT believe that they have a right to teach in schools, work with kids, etc.
Absolutely. If anyone is teaching the kids that humans have an innate "gender identity" or that gender is simply about personal expression rather than women's oppression then it is indoctrinating the next generation with misogyny.
I generally agree with you, but I still don't want a man to get fired because he wears make up or dresses. So I'd want to clarify what "woman face" means. I don't believe make up, dresses and other items society considers "feminine" are only for women or have any need to be specific to women. I'd actually prefer they weren't.
That being said, I'd only support that if we were saying it's cool to fire a dude who actually pretends to be a woman, insists that he must be called a woman, etc. And not firing a dude just because he enjoys clothing and aesthetics are that traditionally associated with women.
Agreed. Though I do think there is a fine line between a man deviating from sexist norms and a man mocking women since most of the aesthetics associated with women were designed by men for the purpose of objectifying us. It's very different from women wearing pants et al since those were designed for comfort and practicality.
I totally agree with this too, but in this instance, I think it would overall benefit women more for those things to stop being associated so heavily with us and actual gender non conforming men could help that. Unfortunately, the trans crap has done the opposite and tied women even harder to this bullshit performative femininity.
While I'd personally probably avoid a, say, make up obsessed man at work due to what you just said, i still don't think I'd support discriminating him based on the way he chooses to present himself. If we're getting to a point where he's wearing breast or hip forms though, I'd find that incredibly offensive and believe he should be fired for misogyny. But things that are not specific to femaleness and just revolve around performative femininity, I think should be left alone. I think it'll help decouple women from femininity and we really need that at this point. Femininity is being shoved down women's throats by conservatives and liberals at this point and it stunts womens progress.
Agreed. there are dress codes that many companies employ and some of them include dress lengths, no open shirts to the navel, no fishnets, no spaghetti straps. I kinda hate dress codes in places like high school, but in some professions, it makes sense. I don't see why a man who follows those (so he's not dressed in fetish gear) can't wear what he wants. It's the pretending to be a woman issue that is a problem.
Yeah, that Canadian teacher who wore comically large prosthetic breasts with visible nipples deserved to be fired. His clothes were inappropriate for his job as a shop teacher, as well as exposing students to his fetish. A female teacher wouldn't be able to get away with the way he dressed.
A guy who wears a dress without exposing himself in a way that wouldn't be allowed for anyone else? I may feel weird about it or think it doesn't look good, but it should be protected.
Agreed, we should be expanding what is socially acceptable for men and women to wear. Or for races to wear for that matter.