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IggyanaJune 4, 2024(Edited June 4, 2024)

Obviously, I’m going to be one of the first people to say that, politically, Badenoch is not my cup of tea.

I love JCJ, but I am so tired of this being stated every single time an individual is referenced. People here do it constantly. "Well I don't agree with everything xyz says...". Or "Obviously so and so has some horrible ideas about y...."

If people think you agree with everything someone thinks or says just because you agree with one thing they think or say, this is an entirely new (and highly annoying) phenomenon. I can assure you that no sane person over 30 thinks this way, and it's ridiculous to have to provide a moral purity badge every time you want to espouse an opinion about something or critique someone else's.

K thx. /rant

syntaxerrorJune 5, 2024

can assure you that no sane person over 30 thinks this way,

Nah, I have met so many people who are just insane. Have you seen TRAs and cancel culture proponents? They’re the kind of people who will rake you over the coals for not including a billion disclaimers (“I love Harry Potter but I hate JKR”) kind of people. I promise you a lot of these people are 30+

drdeeisbackKabbalist BarbieJune 4, 2024

I completely agree with this. I doubt there's anyone on the planet with whom I completely agree about everything. All this kind of statement does is emphasise and reinforce division.

pennygadgetJune 4, 2024

The fact that we are still having to explain why we have a legitimate political interest in our own legal definition, that you don’t just get to give it away to other ‘more important’ people because they want it, and that we have every right to defend our own political interests without being called mean witches, is, I will always maintain, one of the greatest demonstrations of sexism I have ever witnessed in my life.

And THIS is why left wing misogynists are worse than right wing misogynists. The scrotes on the right are at least honest about not giving a fuck about women's rights & opinions. The Brocialists and Brogressives have convinced themselves that they are fighting on the side of social justice and "intersectional feminism". And, IMO, that makes them more dangerous

John Healy, the shadow defence secretary, told us that whether female people exist as a distinct class in law with access to their own spaces was just a “distraction” from real issues that really matter.

Translation: "this doesn't harm men in any way. So we shouldn't care about it"

CrimsonSoleilJune 4, 2024

“ John Healy, the shadow defence secretary, told us that whether female people exist as a distinct class in law with access to their own spaces was just a “distraction” from real issues that really matter.”

Oh this is fucking infuriating. Way to tell us that we don’t “really matter.”

syntaxerrorJune 5, 2024

Bastard. Well at least we know where we stand. Let’s focus on the more important issues I guess.

It’s so insidious how these things are being reduced to “culture war” bullshit when it actually has very real and negative impacts on females as a class. This isn’t like the use of homeless/bum/unhoused this has real and serious consequences.

TheKnittaJune 4, 2024

We’ll matter when no-one is there to give birth, or to perform sexual or family labour.

Then they’ll be whining about feminism destroying the world, no doubt. Men in politics are infuriating.

Unicornkindrad.orgJune 4, 2024

I'm confused on how this makes left-wing misogynists "worse." I think all misogynists are uniquely horrible in their own ways. It's like trying to decide which puddle of diarrhea is "better."

Left-wing politics generally focuses around freedom, equality, progress. The fact that most left-wing men do not view women as human is stupid, but the rights they are supposed to strive for under their political system are still meant to benefit all humans, which women obviously are. The fact that brogressives and brocialists, like TRAs, increasingly dismiss women's right to equality, and the fact that TRAs resort to violence and threats to keep women quiet, is not left-wing, from my understanding. There's a reason they're made fun of as "brocialists" and brogressives", because they don't actually follow socialist and progressive values, they're just dudebros who are rebelling against conservatism but don't actually care about progress, fairness, and equality.

Right-wing politics generally focus around authority, order, and tradition. They very clearly explain that women aren't meant to be human, women are meant to be obedient breeding stock. Women are meant other lesser than men. Women are meant to be submissive to men. Misogyny is tradition. Patriarchy is authority and tradition.

I suppose it is true that as long as left-wing men fail to acknowledge women as whole human beings that deserve their own unique sex-based rights as female people, and keep trying to maintain some sort of "leftist patriarchy", modern day left-wing politics will continue to flounder.

Still, I fail to see how right-wing misogyny is "better" for women. A majority of men across the entire political spectrum are misogynists, how are the ones who are blatantly and openly so "better"? Unless it is meant that conservative's misogynistic tactics are just easier to identify, like a deadly venomous snake that is brightly colored versus one that is well-camouflaged.

pennygadgetJune 4, 2024

I admit a lot of it is colored from my own personal experiences. I've been involved in both left wing non-profits and the Tea Party movement. And the left wing dudes i dealt with were more overtly horrible (ie openly prattling on about how conservative and pro-life women deserve to be impregnated via rape). I'm sure other women's mileage may vary

Unicornkindrad.orgJune 4, 2024

openly prattling on about how conservative and pro-life women deserve to be impregnated via rape

That is horrible and disgusting. I wouldn't want anything to do with that either.

The thing about right-wing movements is they're obviously not going to get very far by openly saying women are meant breeding livestock. That's why they have to flourish and embellish, pedestalize women, talk about how women's greatest honor is having babies, and basically show "chivalry" towards women. In a sense, I view this as the trap. I see it like "lovebombing." (I think Dworkin's Right-Wing Women goes over this well.)

Whereas, on the left, it can be much easier to see that crass misogynistic outlook reveal itself at times. (It's kind of funny because now it's an inverse of what we were initially talking about in this comment thread.) There is no cover of feeling obligated to have a sense of "chivalry and nobility", it's just people being people "as they are." Leftist men rebuke the chivalry and pedestalization that right-wing men show women that encourage them to join the right. But because these leftist men are still misogynists, instead of realizing to treat women like people instead of pedestalizing them, they just think "oh I can just treat women like shit." This is how we get to concepts like women being viewed as "public property" on the left, in terms of prostitution and pornography.

It's weird. Discussing political spectrum is weird. The best summary is just that the majority of men are misogynists and view women as objects. All their political views make sense under that understanding. That is why women need their own movement (which, imo, ends up being leftist in its ideals, just the issue is all the sexist men squatting that word).

pennygadgetJune 4, 2024

The thing is that men will always be looking to find one group of women that its open season to shit upon and abuse. For the lefties, it's women who disagree with them (and that category got bigger with "TERFs" and "SWERFs"). With right wing men, it's "feminists" (and, since most of them don't know WTF feminism means, that label can apply to practically any of us)

And yeah, conservative politeness can definitely be compared to love-bombing. Though the chivalry in conservative circles seemed to die when Trump's fanboys took over all the Tea Party and conservative spaces. A lot of them stopped hiding it

Unicornkindrad.orgJune 4, 2024

This is a quote from the BBC article linked in JCJ's article:

Ms Badenoch was not clear about what paperwork would be sufficient for a trans woman to access women-only spaces such as rape crisis centres.

lol, none. By virtue of being a "women-only" space, TIMs don't get to be there. They can go to a men's shelter, or a transgender-identifying men's shelter.

penelopekittyJune 4, 2024

Oh the irony. JCJ and friends do this very same thing to other women who have held the line on pronouns and who aren't opposed to accepting platforms from people with whom we aren't in lock step. She blocked me on X because I had the gall to suggest she just might not fully understand how politics work in the US.

[Deleted]June 4, 2024

I was going to say this, but then I didn't want to be the one to stir the pot. So thanks, sister pot stirrer! Although I don't know that there should be any controversy around Jane Clare Jones, who is a major "my TIMNIGEL isn't like that and is worthy of respect (translation: fake pronouns, platforming)." She has a couple of times left Twitter because she couldn't handle all the vitriol coming her way (translation: people questioning her position on wrong-sex pronoun usage).

StrawberryCoughJune 4, 2024

She's one of the giants whose shoulders I stand on.

StrawberryCoughJune 5, 2024

Considering poverty affects women more than men, and the dems are slightly better on poverty-related issues, I still think they are worth voting for over Team Red. Plus, the reds are going after every form of birth control next.

the more ammunition they provide for the resurgent and increasingly scary populist right.

I find the left more scary then the right, in the same way the nazi's claimed to to be the national socialist party.

I'll be voting for the right, I can see whats coming and I'd rather the devil you know.