13 comments

spinningintellectOctober 19, 2022

Strongly disagree with this. Being anti-death-by-aging is no more anti-woman than being anti-death-by-bleeding. And the connections between being anti-woman and anti-dying are based solely on things being "associated" with either sex. She even says that men are associated with work and work comes from the mind. Implying that men are the hard-working, intelligent sex. That work is invention and creation.

The justification for her overall stance seems to be purely spiritual: she wants to return to the universe and give the "gift" of life back. Sure, she couched it in science-sounding words, but it's still talking about the metaphysical significance of dying.

I hope her beliefs gave her comfort at the end, but wanting not to die is not anywhere near the same as being anti-woman. Women dying is a tragedy.

WatcherattheGates [OP]October 20, 2022

I'm not sure I agree. Women give, at the very same time, both birth and death. We often see birth as the gift, but we don't often see death as a twinned gift to birth. I think that is one reason why transhumanism is so profoundly misogynist . . .

(I think you must have mis-heard her on work; she says labor is in semblance of women's labor in birth.)

spinningintellectOctober 20, 2022

Women seldom give death. Men do far more often, but even their murder efforts pale in comparison with nature's.

Additionally, not everyone thinks of birth as a gift.

I didn't mishear; I was talking about what she said about men, not women.

WatcherattheGates [OP]October 20, 2022

I guess we are just not on the same page. I think of both birth and death as gifts, given by women to the whole of humankind. And transhumanism reflects the misogyny inherent in the rejection of both gifts.

She spoke about how people mistake male conceptual work for real work, when it is not real work. The real work is in semblance of a woman's labor, she says.

spinningintellectOctober 20, 2022

Creation and invention is what she calls men's work. Things I'd firm say are not the domain of men.

Women do conceptual work, too. Things like science. Devaluing intellectual labour does a real disservice to women, since we do not have an edge over men when is comes to physical labour (excepting when it comes to giving birth, which is little more than a pun in its relevance).

WatcherattheGates [OP]October 20, 2022

Yeah, I'm not sure that is what she means. Her talk is about embracing reality, and what I think she means in this section of the talk is that much of men's "work" is really not connected very well to reality, and thus can be very harmful to women and others. Doing reality-based labor is far less likely to lead to such harm because of the groundedness of it.

spinningintellectOctober 20, 2022

What does that mean? Embracing reality doesn't mean ending medical research because dying is a gift.

WatcherattheGates [OP]October 20, 2022

I don't think that is what she is saying . . .

spinningintellectOctober 20, 2022

Can you explain what she is saying, then? Why is doing medical research to end cancer good, but doing medical research to end non-consensual death bad? People can still die by their own hand, if they so choose.

WatcherattheGates [OP]October 20, 2022

Even if you cured every disease and eliminated all accidents and crime, you would still die. We are born, we live, we die . . . embrace the reality.

spinningintellectOctober 20, 2022

Yes, eventually everyone dies. But what I am saying is that aging to death doesn't have to be the cause. Death could be entirely voluntary.

Again, why is cancer death bad but other death just something we have to passively accept?

WatcherattheGates [OP]October 20, 2022

I think that is precisely what she was trying to explain . . . why it's okay that "eventually everyone dies."

WatcherattheGates [OP]October 19, 2022

If you have 15 minutes, this is a big-hearted, wise talk . . . The speaker also states that if you are anti-death (as in the transhumanists), you are anti-woman, which I think is exactly right.