8
PollDid you (or would you) let your daughter wear makeup?
73 votes
How old and how much?
My mom tried to take a hard line against a lot of performative femininity stuff with me, which on paper seemed fine and in practice...was mortifying. I had to fight her to get to wear a bra, shave, use concealer as I headed into puberty and acne started up; dreaded going to school, hated not being allowed to look more or less like everyone else (though the bra was by far the worst). It's very different than deciding to not do these things yourself, or growing up in a time and place where it isn't the norm and so doesn't put a target on your daughter's back in its own way.
Not being allowed to shave or wear a bra is rough.
There's something about being a 13-year old trying to explain to her mom that while yes bras tend to be designed to make your boobs look bigger (and shaped a certain way), having visible nipple outline attracts a LOT more negative sexual attention and some degrading labels to go with it.
Damn, that's extreme.
See, that's why I wouldn't ban a girl from doing any of those. Associating it with the trauma of being bullied in school would make a girl less likely to stop shaving, stop wearing a bra, stop doing makeup once she's an adult and can do whatever she wants.
(Plus, the bra-wearing is a question of breast size. I'm comfortable without a bra, but know that other women aren't. I'd leave the decision to the girl.)
My mom kind of like tried to be a bit like that, to a degree. And then one day, bam! Wouldn't you look a bit nicer with a little bit of lipstick? I might have been about 15 or 16 then. By then I was all done with wanting to wear it, ha ha ha ha.
I think if my grandmother had lived a little bit longer, she probably would have taken me to makeup classes or something, probably by early teens. You know, to make sure I knew how to do this right, and grow into the lady I was meant to be! The kind that dresses right, and gets her hair done, keeps up with current fashions, knows how to do all these kinds of things.
The thing of it is, as an adult I often (/usually) don't do any of those things and it's fine, so I can see why my mom (who didn't/doesn't either and just remembers her own childhood of having performative femininity imposed on her and chafing against it until she decided to stop in her early 20s...in the 70s...) thought it would be fine for me, but when it's your decision you're in a much better position to fight back when people give you shit for it, and when you're an adult you can do a lot more to pick likeminded people to spend time around. She thought she was keeping me from being sexualized too young, but it doesn't work that way. You still get judged sexually, just labelled negatively...and predators see a kid trying to turn invisible because she can't fit in as easy prey.
My mom was a lot like that. Vicious toward women who wore “too much” or “the wrong kind” (anything that hinted at self-expression or a personality), including me. Judgmental toward those who didn’t wear “a stitch,” including herself. You had to wear exactly enough to look conventionally attractive to be consumed by others. Enough that it was work, but nothing that could be enjoyable to plan or apply. It was utterly dehumanizing and it still depresses me to see her self-talk on the subject, even though she’s eased up on bullying me about it.
I would not encourage wearing makeup at all. But an age comes where there is no "let". The kid is his or her own person and is going to do stuff or not do stuff.
Definitely I wouldn't be buying the kid a makeup kit. You get to be your own person and start doing your own thing and by then, you need to pay for your own stuff either by getting a job or, maybe if the kid has an allowance or birthday money, that might be what they want to spend it on.
I voted no, and by that I mean that to the extent I can actually control, I wouldn't "allow" it. Ie I would set a good example for her in my own habits and discourage the use of makeup. I would talk about beauty practices and feminism from a young age. I would focus on encouraging her to find value in things other than how she looks. And I would refuse to provide it for her myself. But at some point, she'd be able to buy and use her own makeup, it's not really my business to decide what she can or can't put on her face. Even it it was, there's really nothing I could do about it anyway. Parenting is about paving the way for your kids to make the right choices for themselves, not controlling their choices.
Yes, but only minor stuff. When she became an adult with a job and her own spending money, she went a bit nutty for Sephora, which prompted her brother to ask her "do you shop there because you hate money?" 😂 Nowadays, she rarely wears it and when she does, it's inexpensive. I know this because we both had a laugh about her use of Maybelline, which is all I ever used.
"do you shop there because you hate money?" HA HA HA HA HA, love that!
Hey we all have to experiment and try some things. Then look back at our own follies later, and just laugh and laugh, as the adage goes, "he who can laugh at himself will never have any lack of things to laugh at!"
which prompted her brother to ask her "do you shop there because you hate money?"
I'll be sour and angry and a libfem and what the hell not, but I don't think this is funny. Especially coming from a man.
I guess it's enough Ovarit for me for a while.
If I had a daughter, I guess I wouldn't want to "forbid" her from wearing makeup as much as I'd want to teach her why I don't wear makeup, and let her choose for herself. And I'd be less concerned if she just wanted to play around with it sometimes, versus if she felt like she couldn't leave the house without it.
I don't have a daughter but if I did then it would depend on how old she was. Why isn't that part of the poll?
Our family did it gradually. 14--foundation; 15--lip shine, no lipstick; 16--eye shadow of a natural color, 17--mascara; 18--eyeliner and lipstick.
And guess what? After going through the whole gamut, they both decided they don't like to wear makeup! And they criticize women with "too much makeup; they look so fake, like a clown!" Puts a smile on my face . . .
Don't have kids, but it seems like teen/tween girls often go through a phase where they're intensely interested in makeup and fashion (and make some unfortunate aesthetic choices 😬), after which it sort of evens out.
I don’t love criticizing women’s looks, whether they’re conforming to femininity or not. It misses the point of a feminist critique of makeup.
I also find the “when you’re old enough” approach so weird. Is it because you think makeup is sexual? Is it because you see it as an expression of self-loathing?
Being a mother seems really difficult because you don’t want it to be some forbidden fruit, either.
I also find the “when you’re old enough” approach so weird. Is it because you think makeup is sexual?
Men definitely see it as sexual. And say shit like "I didn't know she was underage, she wore so much makeup". Before I got wrinkles, I was often guessed to be younger than women who wore makeup and were five years my junior. Might have been my eternal babyface or shyness, but I think the lack of makeup contributed.
Rightly or wrongly, makeup is seen as sign of adulthood and sexual availability, and I wouldn't want to give men any excuse to prey on my precious (albeit hypothetical) daughters.
So, I do get the "when you are old enough" approach. (That approach also has the advantage that they might have learned better by the time they're "old enough" - as child, I thought smoking was cool and planned to do it when I was old enough. When I was old enough, I knew about lung cancer, and it didn't seem so cool anymore.)
Well I think make up is an aspect of the objectification of women. We have to recolour and even out our faces so we’re more visually appealing. Which begs the question appealing to whom and how appealing? Blush, flawless skin, red lips it’s hard to not come back to being sexually attractive to men.
Also, in real terms a lot of girls start feeling like they need make up to win over their first big crush. That connection is made for them wherever they look.
I do agree that it’s missing the point to critique women for ‘doing makeup badly’ or looking ‘slutty.’ Make up isn’t oppressive because women aren’t spending long enough perfecting looking whatever right is.
Yeah, I find that, you don’t want to make it more appealing and it’s hard when it’s a coping mechanism and you just get the ‘I don’t have your confidence’.
Not before high school. I'd prefer not at all, but I wouldn't want to be too strict and drive her off.
I’d rather it didn’t exist but I remember there was so much bullying in school about wearing make up/covering zits etc etc.
My mum let us wear it and didn’t really make any distinctions but told us we didn’t need it. I do remember getting bought like Claire’s makeup as a little girl by another relative and being creeped out by it and I was upset when my aunt bought my cousin make up when she was 6/7.
I never really liked it apart from covering acne and of course whacking on a ton of goth eyeliner. If they go through a goth/alt stage then it’s pretty essential to have a stubby black eyeliner.
Ideally they will come to hate it as I do. Or they might become addicted to it like my sister. Que sera sera.
I never really liked it apart from covering acne
yours is the only other comment I saw that mentions acne. I never got a lot of acne as a teenager or even now, so I didn't feel any need to use makeup for covering it. therefore, I don't really know how I'd address a situation if my theoretical daughter had a lot of acne and wanted to cover it with makeup (concealer/foundation) on an everyday/frequent basis.
ordinarily, I would discourage frequent use of makeup so she doesn't feel too dependent on using it all the time. but at the same time I can see how it might be difficult socially, and for her self-image, if she had a lot of acne but I didn't allow her to use makeup to cover it.
I'd gladly allow her to use products intended to control acne like facial washes and such, and pimple patches which are a newer thing. I'd let her know birth control pills are an option too that can decrease acne. I just don't know how I'd feel about it if she were wanting to wear concealer/foundation all the time to cover acne.
I consider makeup a much less invasive option against acne than birth control pills. A doctor of oncology once told me he wouldn't recommend using the pill for more than five consecutive years.
Save that time for when she has a boyfriend and still needs to finish her education.
I had bad acne, and did not cover it up, with predictable social results (Though I was bullied before I got acne, so I guess I didn't think it mattered either way)
Foundation is something that I wouldn't have a problem with. I'd try and find something that doesn't have adverse effects on health (no cancer-causing chemicals), but other than that, really, I wouldn't care.
"Why the fuck should I have to pretend to look better than I really do when men don't have to do that?" is a question that needs asking, for sure, but I wouldn't force a teenage girl to be a feminist trailblazer when she doesn't want to be.
Men don't even notice concealer much of the time (they think the "natural" look really means the woman isn't using makeup ...) so in terms of the kid being sexualized, stuff like bright red lipstick is much more problematic.
It's wholly hypothetical, since I don't have one, but yeah, I guess I would. Making a big deal out of it would only make her want it more. Perhaps I'd put a stop to it if she went beyond what other girls her age do (it's always relative, I wouldn't want my daughter to be called nasty names) but as long as she didn't ...
I'd definitely make her pay for it with her own pocket money, tho.
Hopefully, any daughter of mine would realize that there are far more fun things to spend her money on than makeup.
Well this is a future question but I'd probably get her into some diy stuff, can be more fun and better for the skin. And it would be very interactive. Turn it into a learning experience, learn about how makeup is made, try stuff out etc. Girls interact with the environment around them, and unfortunately that includes the images often pushed onto them so you can't escape them wanting these things. But teaching them and providing safe information from a trusted adult(you) can really help it become a growing moment, and not another thing for them to work through as an adult.
Imo one of the best things is to keep your house as adfree as possible. It really changes how you see the world and interact with products and wanting things. Of course they'll have their peers and the pressures that come with that, but activities and hobbies can offset that a lot. Make the thing they "need" to fit in the activity and not the material things.
Imo one of the best things is to keep your house as adfree as possible. It really changes how you see the world and interact with products and wanting things.
In Brazilian Portuguese (of certain regions, at least), the word for propaganda is propaganda, and the word for advertising is also propaganda.
That's fascinating!
In German, the word for advertising is the same one that used to be used for "wooing". (Like, men advertising for themselves so women would marry them, kinda) That is, "um jmd. werben" Can occasionally be used for getting people politically on your side, but I think that's a metaphorical usage of the word.
It was also used for getting men to join the military. (That's "anwerben" - it is occasionally used for getting people to join groups in general, but mostly the military)
The other uses of the word has been mostly forgotten, so it only means advertising now. But you could argue the word means "getting people to do things that are not in their own best interest" 😂
(Okay, there's "bewerben" which means either "to advertise for X" if referring to an object, or "to apply for a job" if referring to yourself, but in the context of job applications, you always have the be- in front. )
Interesting... so, propaganda and seduction, Both proper descriptions of (at least some) advertising, although they seem to be pretty close to mutually exclusive (e.g., classic Soviet propaganda is many things but 'seductive' is certainly not one of them).
This is a choice they should make. My oldest is starting to occasionally wear gloss and mascara to formal events.
In my oldest’s school, light or no makeup is associated with academic kids and heavy makeup with apprentice track kids. So that shapes her decisions.
We talk about what is appropriate to wear when and signals it sends (including self expression or memberships in various subcultures) and all that. My second is a tween and her social group isn’t wearing makeup yet.
In my oldest’s school, light or no makeup is associated with academic kids and heavy makeup with apprentice track kids. So that shapes her decisions.
this is interesting to see, since I don't remember it being divided precisely like that from when I was in high school. my recollection is that the more popular girls were more likely to wear makeup. but plenty of girls didn't appear to wear it, or at least they didn't wear heavy makeup. I didn't feel unusual for not wearing makeup to school.
Of the academic students, the popular girls are more likely to wear it, but it is more discrete than what the apprentice track kids are wearing.
It's totally a socio-economic class thing, as apprentice track kids are more likely to be from working class and not professional backgrounds.
Quite scary. I mean, you could say that the apprentice track kids wore too much makeup because they didn't know how to be "classy", or shit like that, but ...
You could also read it as the apprentice track kids being unconsciously aware that they need to attract a man if they want to have a financially stable life, while the academic ones knew they'd be fine without a man in their lives.
There have always been different social norms around grooming for different classes and other subcultures.
I like what my mom did. She had a minimum age and if I was going to start wearing at that age, I first had to do a skincare routine, daily, without any skips, for a full year
This is before the ridic skin care routine kids have now. It was a Clinique soap, moisturizer and... Some third thing.
But it really put the emphasis on HEALTH as the foundation of beauty.
I don't want children, but in theory...
it would depend on the extent of and type of makeup, plus her age. I wouldn't encourage her to use makeup, but if she wanted to, in moderation and age appropriate amounts/styles/products, I would find it okay. I wouldn't ever allow anti-aging products or skin lightening creams.
in general, I would try to discourage her from using makeup often/frequently. I'd try to frame it as something that you can do if you are trying to dress up for special occasions or formal/professional settings, but not something that's required for everyday life. that's my philosophy for how I use makeup myself, so I'd try to lead by example.
I would emphasize that she looks perfectly fine without makeup*. if it's seen as something too forbidden, it seems like it could become more tempting.
*I've never had problems with bad acne and only got pimples occasionally, even as a teenager. so I don't really know how I'd address a scenario if my daughter had severe acne and was insecure about it, and she wanted to use makeup to cover it up.
I don't have any children. I think I would, but I would let the interest develop on it's own, and jump in as she asked me about it, rather than forcing it or specifically teaching them about it. It would also probably depend on the age, and their expectations. 8 year old asking to go to Sephora so they can wear a full face to school, hell no. 13 year old asking to learn basic makeup for school dances, seeing friends, special events, okay fine.
Most women wear makeup, and it is apart of our going-out rituals for many events; I think it's inevitably she might ask, in terms of "kids see adults do something, and then want to emulate that thing". I still use and wear makeup now, and if I have kids I assume I'll still be wearing it and they'll see me doing so. But I'd never force my daughters to wear it, and I'd only enforce limitations based on context.
My mom never wore makeup so she never forced me into it, but as a child I'd visit my aunt and I was always fascinated by the makeup on her vanity and would often play with it; as a child I just saw fun colors, almost like paints, that you could just put on your face. I did that and eventually when I was about 12-13 I started to try using makeup on my own; that was the age I started having dances at school, but it was also about the time I started doing not just dance recitals, but dance competitions that took place throughout the year (so I couldn't rely on other girls doing my makeup like I did during recital time, which was just one weekend of the year).
To me, stage makeup for dance recitals and theater performances are a very different thing than wearing day-to-day makeup -
If the kid is involved with dance or theater, then for those performances, stage makeup is most likely going to be happening! Costumes, too. Special shoes, for dance. Lots of stuff you don't do day to day, in your normal sort of life. It's fine, its theater.
Oh sure, of course. I was just sharing that for context and as a personal tidbit.
Yes. You don't need it but have fun with it if you want.
Make-up is the least of my concerns.
I wouldn't stop her, that seems a little overbearing given that 99% of women wear makeup one way or another, but I'd tell her that she doesn't need it.
That's the way. Prohibiting something would only make my hypothetical daughter want to do it even more, and I wouldn't want to impose my opinions on her