12
PollDo you experience "runner's high" (from any type of cardio, running or otherwise)?
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The East German government officials who carried out the state-run doping programs of athletes in the 1960s, 70s and 80s kept extensive and very detailed records of how exogenous T and other androgens affected the thousands of young females who were systematically doped with these "masculinizing hormones" during their adolescence and young adult years.
Further evidence of the effects the doping with testosterone and other androgens had on female health over the longterm was provided in court in the early 2000s when some of the men who ran the GDR doping program were tried and convicted of human rights violations for what they did to the female athletes.
If US researchers want to find out how exogenous T and other androgens affects females, then a good place to start is by studying the reams of information that's already on file in the government archives in Germany. All American researchers would need to do this is hire some scientifically literate people who are fluent in both German and English. In fact, maybe a good use of US taxpayer money would be paying to have the German records copied and translated into English once and for all.
I wonder if anyone has paid attention to these women as they came near menopause age, since that is when women normally lose health benefits of estrogen.
And those records are still unbeaten iirc. There was some protests to get them off the books, but it hasn't happened yet
Anyone know the details of the study that was cancelled?
I have mixed feelings about this. Research showing the damaging effects would be good. As ProxyMusic pointed out, the East Germans studied this very well in the past. And I think most TRA will just ignore whatever doesn't fit their narrative or manipulate the data.
Giving women male amounts of testosterone should be banned, but I suppose the research on what happens to women's bodies on those doses of testosterone has potential use for women with PCOS, so yeah. (Plus, the research could lead to this shit being proven to have adverse health effects, so that's another use.)
I suppose the research on what happens to women's bodies on those doses of testosterone has potential use for women with PCOS, so yeah. (Plus, the research could lead to this shit being proven to have adverse health effects, so that's another use.)
But the doses of exogenous T that TIFs take are customarily high enough to get their serum T levels in the normal male range, which is 7.7-29.4 nmol/L.
Women with PCOS don't have natrual serum T levels anywhere near the range normally found in males. Women with PCOS often have T levels elevated above the top end of normal female range - 0.2-1.68 nmol/L - but they never have T levels in the normal male range.
On page 83 of the decision by the Court of Abritration for Sport in the Caster Semanya case, the chief medical science officer for the IAAF (now World Athletics), Stephane Bermon, MD testified:
The data show that 99% of female with PCOS have testosterone levels of less than 3.47 nmol/L.
On page 89-94, Professor David Handlesman, a world-renowned expert on endocrinology testified:
The scientific data shows that the upper limit of serum tesosterone in women with POCS is 3.1 nmol/L (05% confidence level) or 4.8 mol’L (99% confidence level).
Fewer than 1 in 10,000 [women with PCOS] might ever have a circulating testosterone level greater than 5 nmol/L.
Women with PCOS… may have testosterone concentrations that extend into the 2-4 nmol/L range, but they never overlap with the much higher male range.
Even if a very small minority of women with PCOS (fewer than 1 in 10,000) have testosterone that exceed 5 nmol/L, the(ir) level of testosterone never consistently exceeds 5 nmol/L.
On page 95, Angelica Hirschberg, MD, professor of obstetrics and gynecology at the Karolinska Institut in Sweden testified:
The normal range of testosterone is 7.7 to 29.4 nmol/L for adult males and 0.6 to 1.68 nmol/L for adult females without PCOS.
The upper limit for females with PCOS is 3.1 nmol/L at the 95% confidence level, or 4.8 nmol/L at the 99.9% confidence level.
https://www.tas-cas.org/fileadmin/user_upload/CAS_Award_-_redacted_-_Semenya_ASA_IAAF.pdf
For 2021 study, Total testosterone significantly correlates with insulin resistance in polycystic ovary syndrome, 366 women with PCOS were tested, and most were found to have testosterone in the normal female range:
The study sample comprised of 366 PCOS subjects who met the revised Rotterdam criteria (age: 22.91±4.91years; BMI: 28.15±5.46 kg/m2; mean±SD)
About 70% of PCOS women had high IR and 40% had TT >46 ng/dl [1.5949 nmol/L]
A 2017 paper in Nature, "Salivary testosterone measurement in women with and without polycystic ovary syndrome" investigated whether testing saliva was as accurate a way of measuring testosterone levels as testing blood. It compared the testosterone levels in saliva and blood serum of
65 women without PCOS and 110 women with PCOS fulfilling all 3 diagnostic Rotterdam criteria.
This paper also found that most women with PCOS had T levels in the normal female range:
The Median testosterone level found in the blood serum of the 65 controls was1.00 nmol/L
The Median testosterone level found in the blood serum of the 11o women with PCOS was 1.25 nmol/L
serum T (1.25 ± 0.70 in women with PCOS vs. 1.0 ± 0.5 nmol/L i women without),
https://www.nature.com/articles/s41598-017-03945-w
A paper "Criteria for Diagnosis of Polycystic Ovary Syndrome during Adolescence: Literature Review, 2022" found tha 130 teenagers with PCOS had T levels squarely within or only slightly above the normal female range:
Khashchenko et al. reported androgen concentrations in 130 adolescents aged 15–17 years and two years post-menarche diagnosed with PCOS by Rotterdam criteria.
Median hormone concentrations were testosterone 55 ng/dL (1.9 nmol/L) (range 35–72 ng/dL (1.2–2.5 nmol/L))
Median androstenedione concentrations were
15.8 ng/mL (55.2 nmol/L) (range 11.6–23.3 ng/mL (40.5–81.3 nmol/L)).
These investigators determined that diagnosis of PCOS should be done using the following cut-points"
testosterone > 33 ng/dL (1.15 nmol/L)
androstenedione > 11.45 ng/mL (40 nmol/L)
LH/FSH ratio > 1.23
https://www.mdpi.com/2075-4418/12/8/1931
Given how low the natural T levels actually are in women and girls who have PCOS, I don't think much of anything can really learned about PCOS by studying women and girls who take humungous doses of exogenous testosterone in order to get their T levels into the normal male range.
Also the fact that you can have PCOS without unusually high testosterone. Maybe that’s a point where there should be more research to delineate between different types of PCOS, as at the moment some women have high T, irregular cycles and no cysts on their ovaries; some have irregular cycles, cysts but normal or upper end of normal T etc etc.
What a complicated disease. It sounds like really more than one disorder.
Yep. It's just madness that money is going into 'trans research' etc when we still don't even know WHY a fairly significant percentage of women have cysts on their ovaries. We don't know how to get to the root of WHY some women's cycles are so irregular. We don't have testing for monitoring hormonal variations within a cycle to help figure out whether the whole cycle is disregulated, or just one stage. The only medical treatment available for PCOS is the pill. Etc etc.
Yes, it's a myth that PCOS = higher than usual T levels.
It's also a myth that PCOS always means cysts on the ovaries. And it's an even bigger myth that numerous cysts on the ovaries mean PCOS.
Or that you can have higher T and not have PCOS. I have higher than average T and regularly get single functional cysts on my ovaries, but I do not have PCOS and have regular AMH levels. People do not get female physiology.
(Plus, the research could lead to this shit being proven to have adverse health effects, so that's another use.)
If the data shows that giving exogenous testosterone to girls because of gender feels annihilates their health, the gender cultists will just toss those results into the garbage because they're "transphobic". People like Joanna Olsen-Kennedy already admit to doing this. They will ignore any data that contradicts their religion
Its a waste of time and money (not to mention the health of any young woman involved in the study). It would be like asking for a study to see what happens when you give ozempic to anorexic girls who are already dangerously thin just because they feel fat. You don't have to be a scientist to know that the outcomes will be a disaster
As long as women are allowed to be prescribed t, we need to know what happens as there are going to be a growing number of tifs and detransitioners reliant on this info.
This. If people are taking it we need to know what it does
But I can see why Trump cancelled funding. If transgender is a quasi-religious belief system why should taxpayer dollars help study the effects of TIF practices. If Scientologists or yogis engage in weird medical practices, should taxpayer dollars be spent studying the effects?
If Scientists and Yogis are being prescribed potential harmful drugs then yes, we should know what the effects are.
If the US government pushes weird yogi practices on children in school, yes, there should be lots of taxpayer dollars spent to mitigate the damage.
I know that canceling these grants doesn’t mean that the money allocated to them will be redirected to worthier causes. Still, I can’t get too upset about this when so many non-iatrogenic women’s health issues remain massively understudied.
Maybe she could work on debunking the TransWomen at risk myth?
TIMs are the risk
Tifs are giving birth. We need studies as to what testosterone usage has done to these babies.
Tifs are undergoing menopause in their 20s. Normally this would be treated with estrogen to stave off osteoporosis, but not here.
Tifs after a number of years achieve a permanently male look. Scott Newgent is off t and for the rest of her life is gonna be read as a male even before the phalloplasty. It might actually be that old tifs don’t have to keep hurting themselves with t. Looking at you, buck angel.
As long as women are being prescribed t, it is a woman’s issue .