Welcome to another discussion post for Right-Wing Women: The Politics of Domesticated Females by Andrea Dworkin.
In this post, we are discussing Chapter 2 The Politics of Intelligence.
Share your thoughts on this chapter and overal book section in the comments. (Feel free to also share thoughts and suggestions on the discussion post and bookclub structure itself.)
Anyone who hasn't read the book but wants to give input on the topics discussed are welcome to as well! (I recommend mentioning that you haven't read the chapter in your post, so people are aware of that when replying.)
Readers are welcome to join in at anytime. Find a free copy of the book at frauenkultur.co.uk.
I am postponing the Right-Wing Women book club posts until April 6th, due to low participation. I was initially fine with running two book clubs at the same time when it seemed like there was a lot of interest in this one, but it does not seem like the enthusiasm transferred into actual participation. That is fine, we all have busy lives. I am going to lighten my responsibilities by postponing this second book club until the Why Does He Do That? book club is finished.
Previous Discussion Posts
I am postponing the Right-Wing Women book club posts until April 6th, due to low participation. I was initially fine with running two book clubs at the same time when it seemed like there was a lot of interest in this one, but it does not seem like the enthusiasm transferred into actual participation. That is fine, we all have busy lives. I am going to lighten my responsibilities by postponing this second book club until the Why Does He Do That? book club is finished.
Intelligence in women has been proven in some studies to actually make her less attractive to men even if she is physically more beautiful.
One link, I couldn't find the original I had read. https://www.psychologytoday.com/za/blog/why-bad-looks-good/202108/are-men-actually-attracted-to-intelligent-women
I have noticed that I get better results in a work context by pretending to not know and instead to lead men to the answer.
I wonder if many men just want a sex object that supports them and isn't a threat. An intelligent women cannot be controlled as easily. Furthermore, when many men see seductive women they effectively see them as Objects. Must be very confusing to have an object that appears to be intelligent like you!
Rather find the visually appealing one.
This leads me to further wonder if male selection of lower iq women is creating devolution in the societies where that takes place. Because intelligence is mainly mother inherited.
I eagerly await in anticipation for your next post. I bought myself a copy of Last days at hot slit by Dworkin and will start reading a few of the selected works in that collection.
Her speech on the 24 hr rape truce has got me shook as the kids say.
I feel like dworkins works are so intense, with so many points made that I cannot read her the way I do other authors. I need time to process and honestly, emotionally recover to be able to deal with the new realizations so that I can still carry function without hating the status quo.
I need time to process and honestly, emotionally recover to be able to deal with the new realizations so that I can still carry function without hating the status quo.
That is completely understandable. I think it's great to be aware of and respect your inner self like that, that's something I need to work on.
Do you feel like the one chapter a week frequency is too much? When the book club starts up again, I could space out the chapters more? I'm open to suggestions on chapter post frequencies.
I don't know if it's too much generally, lol, I guess I'm making excuses.
I think I'd be able to do a monthly reading and absorbing for discussion.
Monthly might be a good pacing, since there's only going to be four chapters/posts left. You're right, Dworkin is "intense" I would say, in a good way. But still, her words are very impactful and it might take longer to fully process her writing than weekly posts permit. I'll try to make a discussion post about it to see what people think a good posting schedule would be. I appreciate your thoughts!
My pleasure. I must admit I crush hard on her and find her so fascinating.
If I think feminism I think Dworkin.
She seemed to have been the angry, intelligent, profound, brilliant feminist that may have even used her body as a tool in the fight (anti male gaze, fat, uncoiffed and rudely real). Looking forward to the discussions!
Didn't read it, but how frikkin' timely is this, when Trump might well be re-elected.
Andrea writes so beautifully and in a strangely comforting manner.
The half-truths and ego-laden lies part resonates with me. And part of stifling women's intelligence causes the discouragement of asking questions or probing further into identifying the full truth behind the half-truths and egotistical lies. Which prevents women from gaining class consciousness.
Women are allowed to be intelligent as long as it continues to promote status quo. As soon as a woman disagrees with what is collectively deemed "good," her intelligence is "warped."
💔
I have seen this frequently quoted:
Though I found myself more entranced by the text directly before it:
Personally I don't have an issue with positive thinking, until it begins to impede serious discussion. And I currently have to deal with this expectation of women to only use their brains enough to "keep sweet" with regards to my HOA lol. The "president" of the HOA is a manipulative power tripping man. It seems he now dislikes me because I have the "nerve" to point out illogical HOA board decisions, fallacious thinking, and general incompetence and lack of accountability and communication from our community's HOA board. Finding feminist communities and forging friendships with women in my neighborhood has helped me stand up to manipulative people and attempts to get me to submit to the female socialization of subordination.
Literacy is so important. Female friendships and communities are so important, because women helping each other is so important. With more and more communities being online, literacy is growing to be ever more important in order to strengthen female solidarity.
I found this interesting because it reminds me of modern day "progressive" virtue signaling that apparently causes lower literacy rates for the population in general. From what I remember, it is things like removing standardized testing or literacy milestone requirements because some minorities perform poorly in those metrics. And so instead of focusing more resources on those struggling demographics, instead the standards are just lowered for all children. Of course, this also affects poor children of all demographics more than the rich who have parents who can afford to offer private tutoring, private schools, better school districts, or are more involved in their child's education in general.
A well-educated populace is harder to control. An illiterate populace is easier to manipulate, and easier to distract from injustice. This all applies to the female class.
This quote from Virginia Woolf is fire:
And I love this quote:
Andrea then goes into a section on moralism versus moral intelligence that I thought was very interesting to distinguish. I already discussed this part in this comment.
She then talks about sexual intelligence, which I found interesting to learn about.
This notion was interesting to me because I think it shows how porn culture and transgenderism causes women to not wholly find or even desire possession in one's own body. Transgenderism and porn culture both prevent the ability for women to seek out sexual intelligence.
Again, I feel like this relates to transgenderism and an overwhelmingly pornsick culture. Fifty years later, and I think this is only gotten worse in the Western world.
And then Andrea teaches us about Victoria Woodhull! What a fascinating woman. I especially admire this piece of writing from her in 1874:
I really appreciate learning about this historic and impactful woman. I think this is a meaningful passage on female solidarity.
Seriously. I think this is where people cannot understand why radical feminists are against pornography, it is not due to prudish conservative values or to shame women, it is to liberate women's sexuality.
I really like this because it paints how women in marriage and women in prostitution share similar experiences of their bodies being sold to men.
Pure fire.
Still true to this day.
Idk how many times I can say "true" and "fire" while reading this book lol goddamn.
Again, still true to this day. With escalating pornsickness and sexual sadism. And society wonders why young girls are now transitioning enmasse and want to escape their female bodies, they feel they cannot live a human life without renouncing their female bodies.
Hell yeah. This was indeed true in my case. When I had no money, when I was just going to school, when I didn't have a job, I was very much anxious about my male partner being unhappy if I didn't have sex with him (for anyone worried, no, my male partner would not get mad at me or retaliate if I didn't have sex, but I am a highly anxious person, so I lived with the fear that he would no matter how respectful he was to me about my boundaries). Obviously, this caused me to hate sex. It did feel transactional to me. When I got my first career, when I got a stable income, I was able to just say "I'm done accepting terrible sex" and our relationship ended up being more equal because of me feeling brave and stable enough in my independence to enforce boundaries over my body and sexuality.
Seriously. Seventy/eighty cents on the dollar matters. It adds up. Costs of childcare are rising rapidly. What determines which parents stays home to watch the children? Whoever makes the least amount of money. And if women statistically are making 70/80 cents for every dollar men make, which sex is going to overwhelmingly be the one staying home? Giving up their career? Getting a gap in their resume? Atrophying their professional skills? Equal pay for equal work is absolutely revolutionary.
I'm reminded of that sexist wojak meme about a woman who's a scientist compared to a woman who claims she birthed seven [male] scientists, implying the woman is only worthy when she produces male humans, who can actually be worthy in what they want to, unlike women who are forced to believe baring children is what they should want to do.
I like this passage because it offers a somewhat respectful understanding of why right-wing women choose to have the political beliefs and submissive qualities they have. Like was posted in /o/Radfemmery, “for many women, gilding their cage of subjugation is easier and more comfortable than leaving the cage altogether, because the cage is all they know”