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[Deleted]March 31, 2021

I tried reading one of his novels and I just couldn't finish it. I remember how he described the inner monolog of a female teacher that was fantasizing about how she's having sex and "she feels the semen filling her in". This is such a male fantasy, I've heard so many men being obsessed with this. But as a woman, I literally never feel the man ejacilating at all, ever. I can feel the semen dripping later but that's it (and it's not exciting at all). He has no idea what women actually like sexually.

TnetennbaMarch 31, 2021(Edited March 31, 2021)

It's such a common male fantasy, they actually think it's the truth. I have no idea why they think women care about their semen, most women want it as far away as possible.

From now on when I write from a male perspective I'm going to describe the man writhing in ecstasy at the feeling of vaginal discharge coating his penis. He'll orgasm like 11 times at just the thought, with nothing touching his penis. Like women are expected to do.

[Deleted]March 31, 2021

HAHAHAHAH PLEASE DO!

do you write fanfiction?

hypatiaMarch 31, 2021

to be fair, fanfiction is rife with bad men's anatomy in sex scenes, lol

TheExorcistofLiesMarch 31, 2021

I give fanfic authors a pass because most of them are kids who have never had sex with anyone. Whereas cringey, sexist authors are most often grown men who should know better.

[Deleted]March 31, 2021

well, it's our way of retribution !! hhahahah

hypatiaMarch 31, 2021

lol, you might be right

charspeaksApril 1, 2021

Not the person you were responding to, but I'm a big reader of fanfiction, the site I read on clearly has almost exclusively female writers. One time I was reading something and it was so gross, weird, jarring, unerotic, awful and terribly written that it was CLEARLY written by a man. Really stood out.

crapsackworldApril 1, 2021

This is SUCH a real phenomenon! It's hilarious. I can always, always tell if it was a man or woman who wrote something.

[Deleted]March 31, 2021

Yes, I've heard it from several men, they thought I'd be into it and for a bit I thought I'd enjoy it (I had never had sex without a condom). Then when I did experience it, I was like "meh, I can't feel a thing".

DaughtersOfLilithApril 1, 2021

You may enjoy this McSweeny's piece If Women Wrote Men The Way Men Write Women

[Deleted]April 2, 2021
crlodyMarch 31, 2021

Ugh when it drips out it feels so gross, I can't stand it so much so that I'll go sit on the toilet for a while afterwards. Also yeah, you can't feel anything past the first couple inches of your vagina so no woman is feeling the semen "fill her." You can feel the penile tissue contracting during orgasm, but not the semen. I don't know who this author is but from the sound of it he's not very good...

TnetennbaMarch 31, 2021

Don't they realize everything is already wet down there that it doesn't make a difference?

Or do they all have wives like Ben Shapiro?

crlodyMarch 31, 2021

I don't understand that reference, I don't know anything about ben shapiro except that he has an extemely annoying voice and I can't stand listening to him for more than like 5 seconds

[Deleted]March 31, 2021

It's about when he criticized the WAP song and said that his doctor wife had told him that if a woman produces that much wetness as to need a bucket and a mop, she needs medical attention. People were then making fun of him that he can't get his wife wet

TheExorcistofLiesMarch 31, 2021

The whole internet was like, “...bruh.” 👀😂

GenderHereticMarch 31, 2021

fantasizing about how she's having sex and "she feels the semen filling her in".

What is she, an insect with a spermatheca?

[Deleted]April 2, 2021

:'D lmao

charspeaksApril 1, 2021

Lol absolutely. You can't feel it... their male fantasies about female sexual pleasure are so delusional...

notyourfetishApril 1, 2021

He has no idea what women actually like sexually.

Like basically all men.

DiabolicalPinkBunnyMarch 31, 2021

I really need to ask: why do you keep reading his work? 🤪 Although I keep on reading bloody Stephen King, so I'm totally not judging. Just curious.

[Deleted]March 31, 2021

This thread is making me miss the old men writing women sub before the cult took it over. Many laughs were had there. Stephen King was definitely the poster boy for the subject.

FireproofWitchMarch 31, 2021

There’s an idea for a circle.... 👀 Would you like to make a post about it, or should I?

[Deleted]March 31, 2021

By all means, please do! I imagine it would be popular!

hypatiaMarch 31, 2021

jumping in to add that I would love to subscribe to that circle!

ouvalemondeMarch 31, 2021

Oh my god I would love that

TortoisemouseApril 6, 2021

Please please please make this a circle!!!

hatshepsutMarch 31, 2021

I had to read a few of his novels for a college course! My professor was a huge fan and gave us a choice from his novels. Ended up hating them all lmao. never again

TnetennbaMarch 31, 2021

I hope you subtlety worked that into your essays about it!

DiabolicalPinkBunnyMarch 31, 2021

Ah, makes sence!

[Deleted]March 31, 2021

So weird because I liked all of his earlier work and then more recently was so turned off- I’m guessing I just didn’t pick up on all the misogyny because it was so internalized in my teen and 20s

HesitantHyenaMarch 31, 2021

Same. I used to love reading his books in my teens, but whenever I try to return to them now I can't stomach them. I'm too scared to pick up Sputnik Sweetheart or Norwegian Wood ever again, it would probably just make me sad that I was so oblivious.

[Deleted]March 31, 2021
[Deleted]March 31, 2021

That is sad. He was my favorite author actually. I never thought of him as misogynistic. Imagine the decisions we’ve made with that mindset.

Btw I recognized Henry Miller as an ott misogynist but still read all his work per the recommendation of a guy.

[Deleted]April 2, 2021

Oh god, Henry Miller. I remember being 16 and reading his novel, whatever the famous one is, and he was literally writing about a turd flushing down a toilet. My 16 year old mind thought "oH My gOd HoW ProFoounnNNdDD!!" And I quoted it all over my livejournal LOL.

I mean, he's great when you're 16. I haven't read him since because, even though I didn't pick up on the misogyny, he tried so hard that by the time I was in college I was embarrassed to have ever read him.

Why do we idolize so many homeless men? I also loved all the beatniks, and it wasn't until I read Andrew Dworkin that I realized Alan Ginsberg was an actual pedophile. Yet I was taught in high school and college that these homeless, drug addicted men were enlightened? Why?

notyourfetishApril 1, 2021(Edited April 1, 2021)

Me too. I read the Wind Up Bird but didn't pick up on some things in it because I had been raised by abusers, basically, and saw that stuff as "normal."

When I got older, my eyes were opened, so . . . Lol.

edited typo

kalinaMarch 31, 2021

i read the wind up bird chronicles on a recommendation and it was legit the worst book i've ever read to date, like trying to push myself to finish it felt like suffering. it made me so upset & uncomfortable i stopped after half i think. there was literally a side story in there of a woman recounting her rape and how she enjoyed it.

notyourfetishApril 1, 2021

there was literally a side story in there of a woman recounting her rape and how she enjoyed it.

Wow I don't remember this at all (thank god).

Sadly, I'm not shocked. Murakami is Japanese and Hentai (Japanese porn) is usually about women (usually school girls) enjoying being raped. 🤢

I remember when I first stumbled across it online. I still need eye bleach. And I still see my discovery of it as one of the worst things to ever happen to me in my life. . . . And I was raised by abusers, homeless on the streets, etc. I wish I'd never seen it.

arachneApril 1, 2021

My mom gave me that book at the recommendation of someone at the bookstore. :\ I only read like a chapter, but thanks to your warning I will probably not try to pick it up again. Sounds disgusting.

MacBettyMarch 31, 2021

Never read any of his books but I read an excerpt once that I think was from one of them, please correct me if I'm wrong. Something about a female slave mourning the breasts of her fellow slaves. Like, 'such a shame they died, they had such great tits.' That alone is enough to turn me off reading anything of his.

ouvalemondeMarch 31, 2021

Something about a female slave mourning the breasts of her fellow slaves. Like, 'such a shame they died, they had such great tits.'

Ah yes, so relatable. Very typical female behavior /s

ElaineTheLoveWitchMarch 31, 2021

I don't know - I really liked 1Q84. I read it during a very difficult time in my life and it comforted me. What authors do you enjoy reading?

livethruthisMarch 31, 2021

It’s okay. I still really love Sputnik Sweetheart for a similar reason.

hatshepsutMarch 31, 2021

i actually havent read 1Q84! definitely understand if it helped you in some way, i see how people can take away lessons from his work. i love reading greek philosophy despite its absolutely insane takes toward women and other things. i'd say the book i liked best out of murakamis was hard boiled wonderland for its surreal prose and concept. even so i will probably not read murakami again because my attitude towards his work is just meh to dislike, the prose and narrative dont do it for me and obviously i hate the way he writes women lol.

as for books i like, thats a hard question haha, i jump around every genre and age group. i like asimov, shakespear, austen, bradbury, shelley, atwood, le guin.

LetsNotShitOurselvesMarch 31, 2021

I loved it, too!

[Deleted]March 31, 2021
LetsNotShitOurselvesApril 1, 2021(Edited April 1, 2021)

He’s one of my favorite authors, I’ll never apologize about it.

I would not say it’s riddled with those things, especially pedophilia.

Does it contain some of those, sometimes? Yes. !=“riddled” Media containing subject matter in relation to this does not automatically and necessarily mean it condones it or is about it.

His stories are so so so so so much more than that. I love his surreal magical fever-dream-lite realism. I love the slow, hazy ambiance.

Is he a perfect author? No. Some scenes, eh. Easily moving on from them.

Comparing some of this to what’s on the screen in Hollywood, even in pg13 movies? Want to talk about misogyny there? No comparison.

hatshepsutApril 1, 2021

fair enough, i posted this assuming many people would disagree. i mentioned above that i do like hard boiled wonderland for its surreal qualities. very interesting prose and world.

as for the use of pedophilia, i have to argue the main characters of several of his books pursue women that are younger than him, some of them being teenagers, and these subject matters don't seem to be explored in nuanced ways. the books go into detail about how the main character wants to fuck young/underage women. i'm not against exploring male centric povs and depraved sexual matters in books, but i find the creepy undertones of his male characters to be a detriment to the plot itself. i had to read several murakami books in the span of a few weeks and most on the reading list contained elements of a young female character being an object of lust. some of these characters were underage. you can't help but notice these trends especially when reading his works back to back...

it's okay if you enjoy his works, fiction is meant to be enjoyed. i'm glad you take what matters to you from the work, but i cant say the same for myself.

[Deleted]April 1, 2021(Edited April 1, 2021)

Same here. I am on board with your entire comment. Wind up Bird and 1q84 are among my favorite novels.

Does he have dumb, man-y ideas about semen, young girls, meh dudes who somehow get a lot of women, and other eye-rolly shit in his books? Yep. Not disputing that. And the man himself? No idea bout him and I don't care, I just know he exercises a lot.

His stories are so so so so so much more than that. I love his surreal magical fever-dream-lite realism. I love the slow, hazy ambiance.

This! And the air of menace that he conveys like in Wind up Bird stays with you. I don't tend to remember the details of his books though I've read all of them translated into English, but I remember the ambiance and atmosphere.

That said, hate on, sisters! If you hate this dude and his work, that's your right.

VeesdottirApril 1, 2021

I love/ hate Norwegian Wood. I started reading it and... I'm just not a fan of the damsel in distress/ frail pixie girl thing. I didn't care for Naoko at all. But Kizuki was also this frail pixie boy. Delicate petals everywhere in this book! It took me years to give it another try and I remember enjoying the rest of the book. The characters were messy. I do own Dance, Dance, Dance, The Wind-Up Bird Chronicle and A Wild Sheep Chase- which I haven't read. They're classics, so I'm going to read them. But Ryu Murakami is more my style than Haruki.

Fwiw, Norwegian wood is definitely unlike most of his others. The others are much more surreal

CriticalcatApril 1, 2021

I’m in the same boat as you. Sometimes I like being uncomfortable for the sake of plot, especially when it’s skirting historical norms and social commentary. He writes from a very male perspective but I really enjoy reading his books.

hypatiaMarch 31, 2021

This is making me feel better. I recently tried to read one of his books and just couldn't get into it. I don't remember which one it was, but the main character is a man who just left his wife and is a somewhat neo-noir, grizzled, whiskey-soaked detective archetype. His love interest is an ear model. I didn't get very far.

Has anyone read 1Q84? This summary sounds like it COULD be interesting:

This dense read focuses on two vastly different characters who share an experience that ties them together.

On one side, you have Aomame, a woman who finds and kills male perpetrators of domestic abuse. The other character, Tengo, works as both a math teacher and a writer.

At the start of the novel, Aomame begins to realize that the world around her doesn’t seem quite right. She decides that she’s in an alternate reality that she deems 1Q84.

However, I just don't know what to expect.

I feel like I should try again with him, just because he's so well-regarded. However, many times very popular authors won't be as enjoyable to women and maybe he is one of those.

foxstewardApril 1, 2021(Edited April 1, 2021)

i read 1Q84 and i'm still bitter about it. i first read Wind Up Bird Chronicle and MOSTLY enjoyed it, so i wanted to take on something similarly surreal. i also find his prose to be subtly beautiful, though in WUBC i was already leery of how he writes women. i personally thought 1Q84 was (at best) boring, or (at worst) an arrogant male writer's masturbatory pet project that ends its weak storyline in a maddeningly unsatisfactory way, leaving important threads totally unraveled. from about the 500-page mark, i felt like, no matter how much i read, i was always about 300 pages from the end. and tbh this book would have been ALRIGHT with about 300 pages of useless filler cut out. i finished it out of spite and--as i stated and as may be apparent from the ensuing paragraph--i'm still bitter about it.

edit out a word

liliesApril 1, 2021

I tried reading 1Q84 before and hated it. The sexist depictions of the female characters really bothered me, but honestly one of the worst things about the book is how much useless information Murakami includes that adds nothing to the story. Seriously, there's so much unnecessary detail, it makes it a chore to read.

liliesApril 1, 2021

Fucking preach! His books are gross and it's mind-boggling seeing how many people worship him (like on r/books, for instance, or any book-related space tbh). The first book I read of his was Norwegian Wood, which was mediocre at best (and featured the male mc sleeping with every female character 🙄), then I tried reading 1Q84 and couldn't bring myself to finish it because of how sexualized the female characters were and the amount of sexism.

The_ElantrianApril 1, 2021(Edited April 1, 2021)

Yes! A socially inept ex once got me to read Norwegian Wood because it was his favourite book. It took me 4 months to finish it - longer than the duration of the relationship. And the whole time, all I could think was: what the hell is the point of this story?? The pointless navel gazing of a ridiculously boring protagonist. I've never read another book of his. He's already gotten more time from me than he deserves.

YozakuraMarch 31, 2021

I read "What I Talk About When I Talk About Running: A Memoir" and it was good, but I'm hesitant to pick up one of his novels because I've read such bad things about how the female characters are written...

ouvalemondeMarch 31, 2021

I read Underground and loved it, but I've heard that literally everything else he's written is dogshit.

terventer_magisterApril 2, 2021

How he gets so many beaming reviews is a mystery for the ages IMO, haha.

I've read a couple of his books and despised the main male character for being such a creepy self-absorbed boring parasitic asshole who treats the women in his life like fleshlights. The women are written so hollowly, they don't feel real or engaging. Cutout satellite characters who obey and suck off the shittiest most unappealing male character ever - even when he treats them like garbage. Also, the bizarre narration, hilariously clinical sex scenes and how the women speak. There may have been the odd aspect I like (sometimes the prose works well - and I have liked how he articulates a character's experience of mental illness / feeling disconnected etc), but his books don't seem to work for me. I still have a couple of his books unread on my shelf and plan to read them, but can't bring myself to read them yet.

To grind an axe and because I hate it when people fetishise any culture, I do get the impression that some people heap lavish praise on him because they're infatuated with the only Asian country worthy of interest and endless leniency when it comes to unflattering events, past and present Japan and want the country's romanticised reputation to rub off on them. So, they latch onto the most prolific authors / figures of interest to show how deep and complex and worldly and intelligent and unique they are to thou. But they pretty much come across as insufferably dull, obsessive, pretentious, ignorant and boring AF. Not helped by also being xenophobic, disinterested and dismissive towards other Asian countries culture, history and language. And cooming to anime. 😂

[Deleted]April 11, 2021
Flower_tsujiApril 1, 2021

Who is this person ? give a last name er first name ? show some links ?

eyeswideopenApril 11, 2021(Edited April 11, 2021)

Not sure if you've seen this yet, but from the LA Times' review of his latest book:

Murakami’s treatment of women is abhorrent. He disregards women as interchangeable and unremarkable for anything other than their looks: of all the women in these eight stories, only one has a name. Murakami’s last collection, ‘Men Without Women,” at least broadcasts its intent. “First Person Singular” doesn’t even provide itself cover.

In “On a Stone Pillow,” the protagonist explains his brief relationship with a poet; he “can’t even remember her name, or her face,” but does remember “her shapely round breasts, the small hard nipples” and other anatomical details the reader will find less interesting than the narrator does. “With the Beatles” features another now-nameless woman who “looked gorgeous. She wasn’t tall, but she had long black hair, slim legs, and a lovely fragrance.” She kills herself, offscreen. “Carnaval” rolls out yet another, this time referred to as F*; “Of all the women I’ve known until now, she was the ugliest.” He goes on about her looks for several pages, only noting about her personality that she was “friendly and straightforward.” She too meets a cruel end.

Namelessness, especially in a collection that plays with notions of authorial identity, isn’t such a grievous offense on its own. But the collection on the whole is dismissive of women as creatures of intellect and agency, and so bent on spotlighting its own ignorance that it feels less like a stylistic move than a simple refusal to see women in three dimensions. After writing a long string of hypersexualized teen girls, Murakami ought to hope we read all these as fiction and pretend that the “is-it-memoir” question is merely a literary stunt.

Fortunately for the nation Murakami’s oeuvre has too long defined for American readers, many female Japanese authors — Yoko Tawada, Sayaka Murata, Yoko Ogawa — are rising up to take his place, with their more fully realized reflections on how much more bizarre fiction must be if it is to understand real life. In 2017 one of those women, Mieko Kawakami, the author of “Breasts and Eggs” and a named heir by Murakami himself, pressed him about “the large number of female characters who exist solely to fulfil a sexual function” in his fiction. He denied the charge, but “First Person Singular” reaffirms it. And as Kawakami replied, “Women are no longer content to shut up.”

pennygadgetApril 1, 2021

Are you talking about Shinji Murakami?

YozakuraApril 1, 2021(Edited April 1, 2021)

Since this is the Books circle I think the thread is talking about Haruki Murakami. There's also Ryuu Murakami, but his books aren't quite as popular in the West, so I don't think it's him. Plus people have been naming Haruki Murakami books in this thread, so I figured the title refers to Haruki Murakami.