62
carbon0vaJanuary 20, 2025
Unfortunately when men say this, they don't mean they see women as a class worth rallying to. They mean whatever definition of class will benefit their personal goals, and expect women to work and sacrifice towards that agenda instead.
The history of social movements is full of men telling women, 'sure honey, we'll deal with that little problem for you, right after we get this way more important thing that benefits us'. Our turn never comes until we choose to collectively center ourselves.
Exactly. To men, the class wars mean the men who can afford to keep a private woman (or pay to use a public woman) vs the men who can’t. They want to redistribute resources, including women, among themselves because they feel they aren’t getting enough. We’re not going to get shit from a man’s class war.
Exactly, they see women as resources, not citizens.
GrimeldaSJanuary 20, 2025
When I was a student I joined a socialist organisation and I have to say none of those blokes genuinely gave a shit about women. I gave a talk about male violence and the group leader's only comment was (paraphrasing) 'I just want to clarify that we don't support tossing people in jail. Come the revolution there will be no need for violence.'
carbon0vaJanuary 21, 2025
Come the revolution there will be no need for violence.
"come the revolution" 🙄
Did you ask him why he thought there was a 'need' for male violence against women now?
Probably because of inequitable distribution of women. Men need to make sure “their” women stay in line and feel they must dominate over women to prove their place in the male hierarchy. But once women are evenly distributed among men, men won’t need to be anxious about losing “their” women, and once the male class hierarchy is dismantled, men won’t have as much to prove.
It’s all about them and their feelings.
GenderHereticJanuary 21, 2025
Come the revolution there will be no need for violence.
These types never think about what a revolution even is.
FutureBreedMachineJanuary 20, 2025
While the class wars are incredibly important and need to be in the forefront more often, this is just another one of those things white brosocialists use to dismiss important social movements. Sex and race directly impact class issues. And they're not just nonsense made up to distract us from the "real" problem like white dudes like to think, they're all real problems that are intertwined and affect each other. You will never fully solve the class problems if you don't solve misogyny and racism.
jelliknightJanuary 21, 2025
Arguably, modern racism was invented to prop up capitalism (i.e. a two class system of owners and workers) by dividing the working class against each other. Youd ve surpised at how little skin colour mattered in most places for most of recorded history
Sexism has a longer history, obviously, but its reinforced under capitalism. The idea of women taking mens jobs has been used by the owning classes to create division. And of course womens unpaid labor holds the while system up.
Theyre not "distractions", you are right. They important in their own right while also being deeply intertwined with the struggle of the working class.
SmellerbeeJanuary 22, 2025
Arguably, modern racism was invented to prop up capitalism (i.e. a two class system of owners and workers) by dividing the working class against each other.
Bacon's Rebellion entrenched that in the US.
cranberrysalad [OP]January 20, 2025
But you also won’t solve misogyny and racism without recognizing both as class warfare. We ignore class warfare at the peril of women’s liberation, because women are an oppressed class.
nomenarewomenJanuary 20, 2025
I don't think misogyny and violence against women and girls is restricted to only some social classes
EavaJanuary 21, 2025
The post is not about forms of oppression based on things other than economics. When people talk about "class warfare" they're talking about economics, not any kind of "class" based on inherent characteristics like race or sex.
FutureBreedMachineJanuary 20, 2025
Yes, I agree. In my experience and the way I interpreted the tweet, people will often dismiss racism and sexism as real issues, claiming they're mere distractions while classism is the real issue. My argument is theyre all real issues and directly related to classism.
You cannot solve classism without solving sexism and racism and you can't solve racism and sexism without solving classis.
The only real issues are the ones that affect white men, too, of course. /s
ThelnebriatiJanuary 20, 2025
''After the revolution, sisters! Now put your silly concerns to one side, there are real problems to concern yourself with.''
Nope! I have yet to hear anyone concerned with class issues address the biggest QOL issues for women in a meaningful way (e.g. the unequal division of domestic labor, or intimate partner violence). And the last politician who platformed on class issues in the US straight up said abortion is a "distraction from the real issues" 🤢 Hard pass... It's just another way for men to leverage our support to advance their personal interests and give us nothing in return
nomenarewomenJanuary 20, 2025
exactly. Let's talk about the group of people who worldwide cause the most violence, destruction and harm, particularly against females: MEN.
Magik_LipstickJanuary 20, 2025
And the last politician who platformed on class issues in the US straight up said abortion is a "distraction from the real issues"
Sanders?
StrawberryCoughJanuary 21, 2025
It is a distraction. It should have been made legal 80 years ago. It's in the interests of both parties to keep adjudicating it, because either way, corporate value increases. Fighting for the environment, or even better maternal leave policies, would diminish the ability to raise corporate money from any party that attempted it.
nat20January 20, 2025
Yup
GrimeldaSJanuary 20, 2025
damn. even him huh?
Sanders is a misogynistic pig who thought women got breast and uterine cancer because they didn't have enough orgasms. He wrote articles basically telling teenaged girls to ignore the guidance of the adult women in their lives and put out for their boyfriends. He left the mother of his son on welfare, unable to find housing because she was Section 8 dependent, while he went off and mentally mastubated in support of "the Revolution" instead of getting a job. He supported women's liberation because it helped men get laid.
GrimeldaSJanuary 21, 2025
I did not know this. Why are leftish men so similar to right wing men?
marmaladestripes725January 21, 2025
He also wrote an essay in the 70s about rape fantasies. The opening line is about men masturbating. It’s super gross.
forestheart13January 21, 2025
He wrote articles basically telling teenaged girls to ignore the guidance of the adult women in their lives and put out for their boyfriends.
Would you have links handy for these statements?
jelliknightJanuary 21, 2025
And the last politician who platformed on class issues in the US straight up said abortion is a "distraction from the real issues" 🤢 Hard pass
Id interpet this differently.
Its like saying tran issues are a distraction from the real issues of womens rights. Its kinda true. As radical feminists we want to deal with the root causes of female opression in our society, but we cant because of the TIMs creating a more immediate problem. Its a distraction because we cant ignore it. And as long as the TIMs and their supporters can come up with new ways to attack womens existing rights peice-by-peice we cant face the core issue.
Abortion rights are a distraction because they are viscerally, imminently important. We cant think about broadly restructuring our society to be fairer and more efficient while we are living with a threat of death from an ectopic pregnancy in any given month. We are being baited into fighting on turf chosen for us, and to default to existing tactics like political protests, campaigns and donations, rather than slowly building more radical alternative methods and forms.
If I want to distract you i could shout "look over there!", but itd be more effective to set your house on fire. Its still functioning as just a distraction for my purposes despite being a real threat to you.
Like in the hunger games; remember who the real enemy is.
nomenarewomenJanuary 20, 2025
Yeh I feel the man against women wars are the real thing that's being hidden
forestheart13January 20, 2025
Well... sex IS a class, as far as I'm concerned, and an axis of oppression, and I believe it's actually (slightly) older than socio-economic class. Race/ethnic group/etc... can also be classes and constitute axes of oppression, if in a more mutable way depending on region and time period. So I don't really agree with this Tweet to be honest.
bluetinfoilhatJanuary 21, 2025
Sex is more of a class than social class. It is literally a biological class.
I agree that the class war is a bigger picture issue, with more importance to more people.
In fact, both sides (of the 'gender war') can agree that the class war is a bigger issue... but both sides are using this "smoke screen" argument as an excuse for why the other side should just drop their side of the gender war... and neither one will.
it's a good thing we can tackle more than one issue at a time.
forestheart13January 21, 2025
I'm gonna throw a relevant book recommendation here: The Creation of Patriarchy by Gerda Lerner. It's not the most up-to-date text you could find, but it is most definitely scholarly and as evidence-based as it can be, given the time it was written, and the author makes it very clear where she goes into speculation and doesn't claim her theories as incontrovertible fact (which no scholar worth their salt should in any case).
It's probably the best book I've yet read on, well, the origins of patriarchal state societies (or at the very least, some of them/those from the Fertile Crescent then into Europe, but some of the analysis can definitely be applied to other areas of the world and their cultures), and she makes a very solid case for sex-based oppression being slightly older than socio-economic class-based oppression (which is what I've personally contended for a long time now, though they are ultimately very intertwined), notably by arguing that the first slaves ever made were female, as property necessary for reproduction (simplifying here).
Funnily, the one thing that unites all classes is male violence. Male depravity and entitlement is spread across the board, wealth or lack of it doesn't matter.
Solving the male violence problem will fix a lot of the class problems as well. But we're not allowed to say that
Male depravity is the entire reason why classes exist. Men create hierarchies.
Men love submitting to more powerful men, and dominating less powerful ones. And they get mad that women aren't the same.