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Today I was out shopping and went to use the restroom. There were 5 single use restrooms labeled “All Gender” with pictures of a stick figure in a dress and a stick figure in pants and 1 single use restroom labeled “Men” with pictures of a stick figure in pants.

Even if I weren’t a gender critical radical feminist, I would hope that this would peak me. Why are there 5 gender neutral spaces and 1 man-only space? What is the point? Why isn’t there a female-only space? Why not make all 6 restrooms gender neutral? After all, they all have one toilet and sink and one locking door. Does this stuff peak other people? How does this not make other women rally to feminism?

Today I was out shopping and went to use the restroom. There were 5 single use restrooms labeled “All Gender” with pictures of a stick figure in a dress and a stick figure in pants and 1 single use restroom labeled “Men” with pictures of a stick figure in pants. Even if I weren’t a gender critical radical feminist, I would hope that this would peak me. Why are there 5 gender neutral spaces and 1 man-only space? What is the point? Why isn’t there a female-only space? Why not make all 6 restrooms gender neutral? After all, they all have one toilet and sink and one locking door. Does this stuff peak other people? How does this not make other women rally to feminism?

57 comments

[–] Lipsy i/just/can't 58 points Edited

Girl you gotta back up a few more steps to see the real issue here.
The fundamental underlying problem—which creates all the other problems that feminism was born to address—is that people—including many Women—either don't understand, or just don't intuitively buy, the full and all-encompassing reality of Female oppression.

TBH this may be the one and only downside of spending lots of time on ovarit—it becomes easy to DRASTICALLY overestimate the baseline level of understanding out there of the fact (the fucking fact!) that Women and Girls have a harder go of it, in this life, than do men and boys.

Most people—owing to some combination of /1/ relative privilege/comfort/basic security and /2/ just la la la la la ((fingers in ears)) not being willing to confront the realization that such a harsh inequity is so pervasive—just DO NOT develop a conscious awareness of why the world NEEDS feminism.

And in addition to those two, there's one last thing that affects EVERYONE, which is /3/ systematic Female oppression is difficult or impossible to see without deep introspection, because there are no physical "Female ghetto" communities.
Anybody with two eyes and at least three brain cells can SEE the cumulative effects of Black oppression and racism—just by walking around Orange Mound or Opa-Locka or East St. Louis, looking around, and SEEING the materially obvious effects of enforced economic, social, and physical segregation.
There is no historically segregated and impoverished womyn's land ghetto where one can do the same. The closest approximations are things like clusters of period huts in the third world, or US urban areas like inner Baltimore that have lost so many male residents to incarceration that sex ratios are as lopsided as 100:115 (m:F.... the baseline is between 100:95 and 100:97).
That things are so much worse in those places, even though they're only like 10-20% segregated (by time or by sex ratio), is sobering AF isn't it... Imagine if it was 100%.

But yeah. For those 3 reasons most ppl are ignorant all around.
srsly, there are more people out there than you might think who actually think the missions and worldviews of MRAs and feminists are morally equivalent and practically on equal footing.
Plenty of these people, if they have a sudden lightning-bolt revelation tomorrow night that TRA=MRA, would just be like "meh" and not realize why that's such an existential threat.

The most-est worst-est effect on Women as a whole, I hate to admit, comes from AWWFLs (affluent woke White Female liberals), because they have Female socialization piled on top of all that other crap which makes them inclined not only to not see Female oppression, but to willingly "be kind" and give the upper hand over to groups that already fucking have it.

Eeesh i have that issue. I will have a perfectly fine conversation and say something that seems like it's common knowledge and be unexpectedly met with complete resistance. I think i said something like, everybody knows how hard teenage girls have it, thinking it's pretty solid common knowledge how girls self harm and how they attempt suicide way more than boys. And I'll have two male colleagues with male kids tell me, noooo boys have it worse!

Talking to normies about feminism feels like teaching a toddler that the cow makes moooo

boys having it worse is an MRA talking point that is seeping everywhere as part of the antifeminist backlash. :/

[–] [Deleted] 13 points Edited

Absolutely, the whole boys need to run waawaawaaaah schools feminizing them blabla i hear that so often from males and everytime I say school was designed for males by males, so your point is nonsense. And they always go some blabla more sports would be good for girls too. Yes it would, Kyle, but that doesn't mean you can use it as a scapegoat for why your boys are so badly behaved smh

Edit: also these same men will then say i hate how my son watches 5h twitch im one go... Oh you mean he can sit still for that? Curious!

it's because they think they're entitled to sex, that's why they have it "worse". many go on to rape sleeping women.

[–] immersang ★♫☆❉★♬☆ 10 points Edited

A few weeks ago I was at the birthday party for a male friend of mine. He had some family invited, among them his female cousin who's in her early 20s. The three of us were talking at some point, and he asked whether any of us had seen "She Hulk" yet. The cousin immediately went "Ugh, "She Hulk", they are just doing that to fill their inclusivity quota, right?". My male friend was the one then telling her that no, "She Hulk" actually has been around since the 1980s in the comics.

I was so baffled by how this smart, college-educated, young woman, who's on her way into a good career, was immediately sprouting MRA talking points when confronted with a female protagonist in a superhero show. I just kept my mouth shut because I didn't want to "cause a scene" at what was, after all, a birthday party.

(And no, she definitely did not mean it in the way that it is a badly done show and a cheap way to include female characters or anything like that. She definitely meant it the "Ugh, why do they have to put female characters in everything these days" way.)

Ugh yeah it REALLY sucks when it's other women pandering to the mighty penis. Then the dudes all look at me like, see this chick is fine with it, why you gotta be so difficult! Luckily most women i work with are pretty badass and don't throw other women under the bus for a crumb of penis.

[–] Lipsy i/just/can't 1 points

and that's why AWWFLs (as defined above.are pronounced "awfuls".

Material comfort + Female socialization = Will fucking ruin everything for the rest of us.

Side point: WHOAH holy shit that's a lot of upvotes (on my original post)! I feel so....sistered 😍

A little league baseball game was on at a bar I was at with some coworkers the other day, and we were talking about how they looked so focused and capable. I casually mentioned how crazy it is that, assuming they're at least 14 or 15, they would defeat a team of Olympian women. This seemed to completely shake my coworker's worldview. All he could say was "I don't like that" over and over.

[–] assignedpooratbirth trans-wealthy 4 points

people—including many Women—either don't understand, or just don't intuitively buy, the full and all-encompassing reality of Female oppression.

This, though. It took me YEARS to begin to understand the full extent of sexism and patriarchy, and even longer to accurately label the creepiness or harassment men have targeted towards me as part of a larger problem. For a long time I brushed off my own experiences as just unfortunate or unsettling encounters instead of recognizing it as part of the oppression women experience. Whenever I talked to people about it, nobody would name the problem. It was just a "person" being a creep, "not all men" instead of "too many men" or "men routinely do this" or "when someone does this it's almost exclusively men."

Women make up half the population, so misogyny survives by gaslighting women into believing it doesn't exist, so they don't bother to fight back. Other minorities are blatantly oppressed, and the oppressing class gets away with it by sheer number. But if all women woke up one day and realized how messed up all of this is, and started taking back their power? Men would not stand a chance.

[–] Lipsy i/just/can't 1 points Edited

I feel ya grlfrnd.

Hard-earned knowledge does, however, tend to settle into intuition better than quick takes.
This being the main reason why there are no young people who exude wisdom of the same depth or nuanced texture as that acquired by older people over the course of a whole lifetime of humble openness to learning.

...where my point is, basically, taking the hard path is never a total waste in the long run 🤷🏿‍♀️

This post has been brought to you by the People Who Are Entirely Too Young To Give Life Advice Give Life Advice Dept.
also dba Reminiscences of That Girl With Nothing to Really Reminisce About Yet LLC. 😬😂🤪

It was just a "person" being a creep, "not all men" instead of "too many men" or "men routinely do this" or "when someone does this it's almost exclusively men."

LOL!!!

[–] space_out 15 points Edited

I'm from the other side of the world (Eastern Europe) and this is 1:1 applicable. There are many differences, eg, medicine is seen as a 'women's job', but even older women, women in power positions are so insanely drenched in misogynistic logic it would blow your mind.

Case in point (TW: SA) :

There was a case in the news of an immunologist molesting his patients under the pretence he's doing gyno exams. It was happening for years, there are multiple victims, ages ~20-30 who found each other on a forum reviewing doctors. They got together and pressed charges. He even admitted doing the 'exams' even though he doesn't have a gyno licence and STILL his immunologist licence wasn't revoked. He kept working up until last year when a journalist did a podcast series on all the horror this piece of shit had done.

Now, I know piece of shit men exist. But what has burned in my memory from the podcast is the response of two medical health ethics board members who let this piece of shit continue practice. These women, I f kid you not, said that some female patients want their doctors to molest them and when the doctors don't the patients make false allegations. These women, in the exact high up positions where they could have made a change, said that on record. The level of conviction to say that publicly is immeasurable.

This shit runs deep.

Edit: About the story, I found the podcast transcript if anyone wants to read an autotranslated version . Here are the quotes I mentioned in my post(the quotes are from episode 4):

Edith Vitola [Edīte Vitola]

Why should I remember? No. And about the fact that he works - maybe that woman has some kind of mania and some reason to hate that man, and she has been chasing him for sexual harassment for 10 years now? Well, that's how it is! [Laughs] That's right!

[it was 6 women, now there are 20 known victims]

Aija Tula-Rijkure

She falls in love with male doctors, then she expects and fantasizes about something, and since it doesn't happen, she writes a complaint about something that never happened. There are also such cases.

some female patients want their doctors to molest them and when the doctors don't the patients make false allegations.

WHAT. THE. FUCK.

[–] Lipsy i/just/can't 2 points

Thanks for adding your observations, I appreciate it.

IMO there are as many sexually abusive women as there are men, and the majority act out by proxy. By dating, enabling and facilitating abusive men. Its the Ian Brady - Myra Hindley double act.

Statistically 99% of sexual predators are male. It’s not really a matter of opinion that there are nowhere even close to as many sexually abusive women as there are men.

Yeah, like Ghislaine Maxwell in my mind is similar to Myra - allegedly following the lead of the man and using people's trust in women to provide victims for him. Most everyone would not let Myra or Ghislaine off the hook. But then there are people including women, who conveniently 'don't notice' or commit deadly-mental-gymnastics like the ladies from my story just so they could stay within the confines of the patriarchy. And yeah, I do consider them partially responsible for every victim he assaulted after they didn't revoke his license even though they weren't in the room while he did it. But of course they had no repercussions. I know there are cases where people don't have the means to intervene and help others out, but some cases are such clear-cut man worship it makes me sick.

[–] [Deleted] 1 points Edited

yeah there are loads of women who say stuff like, "why would you want to go out walking alone at night anyway?"

UM, CAUSE I LIKE IT???? CAUSE THERE ARE SO FEW MEN SPRINKLED ABOUT HARASSING ME and blocking my path on the sidewalk. problem is, even though the prowling population is lower, the killers and rapists are out. nevermind women who might work late etc.

"why would you want to lift heavy bags anyway?" "why would you want to open your own doors and use your own muscles anyway?"

[–] Lipsy i/just/can't 1 points

I've been lucky enough to be spared that kind of company, up to this point.

Or maybe I occasionally DO have that kind of company, but whoever it is just knows they should shut their big trap about it when I'm around lolololol

Most women have bought into the idea that they are inferior and their job is to please men

Segregation would indeed solve female issues. Instead of we creating a separate space (the gravest offence against patriarchy) we are forced to care, marry and live with our oppresors.

I once went into a Taco Bell that had a women's restroom and an all gender restroom. They kept the women’s space and made the MEN'S space gender neutral!! And this is in California! I wish I had taken a picture because I still don't believe it. I'll have to go back there someday to see if its still like that....

[–] BlackCirce 🔮🐖🐖🐖 28 points

How does this not make other women rally to feminism?

My take on it from my years of experience is that over time feminism as a contemporary movement was broken down into something for everyone. It’s now the political expression of women’s role in society: to nurture others, to care for others, to defend the weak through self sacrifice, to put blinders on to how women get screwed (in both senses) by men for men’s benefit and fight it. Women see the lack of a female space and feel heroic because they’re saving a trans kid’s life or something, or making a vile man like Alok V Menon feel “safe.”

What I find incredible is how Lib fems will say things like “men are trash” and recognise the shitty things men do, but the second the same men say “I’m a woman now” they are coddled and recognised as the most oppressed. It’s just … nuts to me. How has this even worked ? How can members of the oppressor group just declare they are oppressed and people believe them ?

[–] BlackCirce 🔮🐖🐖🐖 12 points

Idk in my experience it’s easy to talk them out of men are trash, as it is for all women. You just start naming groups of “oppressed” men and eventually you’re down to cis straight white billionaire conservative men are trash. Change one of these adjectives and suddenly the man in question is not trash but an “ally” and change more than one and he’s someone we need to help

They all believe the "Trans women are being murdered every 5 minutes!" lie that the TRAs peddle.

People don't question things as much as you'd think. They'll go to great ends to avoid questioning things! Only when they are forced to confront something will they put real effort into thinking it through.

You would think when we got to the point of male rapists in female prisons….

had a woman really look appalled when i suggested that putting males in female prisons was dangerous. "so we should keep them segegrated because some of them might be dangerous?"

[–] Tiramisuomi 6 points Edited

I'll bet many of these dumbfucks love to trash anti-vaxxers, but their logic is absolutely the same. "There is no such thing as female, sex-based oppression! Who needs sex-segregated spaces? I don't see a problem with things as they are!", says the person who has benefitted from this system for their entire life.

You would think when we got to the point of male rapists in female prisons….

Its because most incarcerated women come from the bottom rungs of society (ie POCs, addicts, single mothers, impoverished, abuse victims, foster kids, homeless, etc). No one gave a fuck about them before they went to jail. Why would they care what happens to them after?

Also, stupid people think that women's prisons are like Orange Is The New Black. And that the TIMs being sent there are just harmless, sassy gay men

And those stories are still only published in the NY Post and/or the Daily Mail.

[–] Nediljka_Orwell PITA crone 2 points Edited

A lot of people think "feminism" is over and done with because (predominantly white upper class) females are perceived as having equal opportunities in the Western World. After billionaire feminist superstar Sheryl cooed "Lean in!" the glass ceiling was officially broken, everyone cheered, and it was time to pivot to QWERTY.

Others think that "feminism" became too antagonistic and overreaching in the pursuit of equality, (like demanding access to previously male only spaces, ahem- there were waves of that decades ago that have not been forgotten) and they're enjoying a bit of nasty schadenfreude about women becoming upset over the transsexual empire colonizing their everything.

The gender neutral bathroom distribution thing is baffling. Men get their own restrooms, but women have to settle for cattle call gender neutral ones?! Women need private bathrooms more than men do! FFS. That is obvious from multiple perspectives. But as with all of this new social chaos stuff, we address the inherent dangers that manly men pose by giving them their own unadulterated space and everyone else (women, children and deviants) have to crowd together and make do in another. The assumption is that the "oppressed victims" (or newly fledged "equals") can share without conflicts, because they're all in the same boat and will naturally be "kind" to each other! Women should welcome TiMs out of solidarity because they're victims of patriarchy too! (Cue the "We're not so different, you and I" monologue.)

Because it's a male supremacist world, they're already primed to prioritize male needs.

[–] nopenottoday 2 points Edited

One thing that helped me realize was that MRA rhetoric is actually normal rhetoric. I thought it was Fringe at one point, but both men and women believe men got the short end of the stick and women actually fight on behalf of men whereas men really never take up any causes on behalf of women. Women will fight other women and tear down women's rights to help men because that's what they have been trained to do. They have also been trained to not get angry about things so that reflex in them is dulled. Is it the mark of a weak-minded, sometimes even stupid, woman? Often. Yes. However, it's a lot more than that.

I've actually been looking a lot into the mother-son relationship and I think that's to blame for a lot of this. Boy mommies are a force to be reckoned with and when they think dear Sonny doesn't get something he's entitled to, they just may tear the whole damn town down until those mean bitches down at the school let his precious ass change and shower with them and play on their sports. Because can't they see how precious he is?

How often do mothers do that for girls? It's just interesting how as soon as boys wanted something, the majority of mothers involved in the fight were fighting to get the boys the thing they want with absolutely zero concern to the impact on girls.

The mother-son dynamic extends to all sorts of relationships between males and females. We all know how often a girlfriend or a wife will just become a second Mommy and will fight for her poor Nigel who just has to deal with so many mean bitches in the world and it's just not FAAAAAAAIRRR.

The second thing to blame is religion which has brainwashed women into believing they are inferior to men and that they are here to serve men. Religion IS the original MRA activism

I really don't know how any woman can watch this happening and not want to fucking blow shit up. I can't personally relate, however I logically understand it to be a combination of the above things and more. I was watching a conservative cringe compilation the other day and there were all these women absolutely degrading themselves about Donald Trump, saying that they love him "because he loves to grab us by the pussy." I saw one daughter with her really nasty father who said something absolutely disgusting and then said "i probably shouldn't be talking like that in front of my daughter." The daughter doesn't know any better and that's her dad so she just laughs along with it. She is brainwashed. Maybe that's the answer to it all. Brainwashing

The fact that transmen are a thing makes it easy for people to assume all TIPs are equal in the movement.

There's also the fact liberals don't want to question things because they don't want to be seen as hurting an "oppressed" group.

But @Lipsy has the best answer: most people don't recognize sexism as the pervasive problem it's always been.

Because many women have fully accepted their oppression and view it as normal to the point that their brain does not perceive these things as unfair.

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