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So I took a bold leap recently and told a few friends I wouldn't be voting for several prominent Democrats in this election specifically because of their anti-woman views. The example I gave in question was Tony Thurmond, current California Superintendent of schools who is up for re-election.

I linked this article where Thurmond comes out stating he opposes schoolgirls having their own locker rooms:

https://edsource.org/updates/state-superintendent-warns-chino-valley-unified-that-proposed-anti-trans-resolution-is-illegal (archive link)

The group chat said they didn't see the problem, and one person quoted this part of the article which the others said they agreed with:

The proposal would restrict the use of restrooms, locker rooms, physical education classes, intramural sports and interscholastic athletic programs to students based on their “biological” gender. Schools would provide gender-neutral or single-use restrooms or changing areas as well as other alternatives in order “to address any student’s privacy concerns in using sex-segregated facilities.”

Sounds pretty sensible, they agreed. The problem? That's literally the evil twansfobic policy Thurmond was voicing opposition to.

They thought I was opposed to letting the genderspecials have a separate changing area, when really what I was opposed to is the abolition of women and girls' spaces. They didn't realize that not only was the latter on the table, it's the current policy.

This is California, they're all typical Democrat voters. They think that being an "LGBT ally" and "inclusive" means supporting sensible compromises like adding a genderspecial locker room. They don't realize it means abolishing women's spaces.

They had no idea that the actual policy is that women and girls are not allowed ANYTHING of our own, that the actual policy is that literally EVERYTHING must be ceded to ANY man at any time. The idea that a whole ass fully intact teen boy with male genitalia would demand access to watching teen girls undress was absurd to them, but it's literally the law here.

I am reminded of the Wi Spa incident which took place in LA. The woman there also had no idea it was California law.

I feel like we need a huuuuge PR campaign. How is it that women in the UK are so much more aware of the issues? Things are just as dire if not moreso in California.

When Republicans vote R, they generally know they're voting against abortion access. When my friends blindly check a box next to (Democrat) they don't even realize they're voting against women's rights and spaces. They don't know what they're voting for!

How do we even raise awareness?

So I took a bold leap recently and told a few friends I wouldn't be voting for several prominent Democrats in this election specifically because of their anti-woman views. The example I gave in question was Tony Thurmond, current California Superintendent of schools who is up for re-election. I linked this article where Thurmond comes out stating he opposes schoolgirls having their own locker rooms: [https://edsource.org/updates/state-superintendent-warns-chino-valley-unified-that-proposed-anti-trans-resolution-is-illegal](https://edsource.org/updates/state-superintendent-warns-chino-valley-unified-that-proposed-anti-trans-resolution-is-illegal) [(archive link)](https://archive.ph/kZXgc) The group chat said they didn't see the problem, and one person quoted this part of the article which the others said they agreed with: > The proposal would restrict the use of restrooms, locker rooms, physical education classes, intramural sports and interscholastic athletic programs to students based on their “biological” gender. Schools would provide gender-neutral or single-use restrooms or changing areas as well as other alternatives in order “to address any student’s privacy concerns in using sex-segregated facilities.” Sounds pretty sensible, they agreed. The problem? **That's literally the evil twansfobic policy Thurmond was voicing opposition to.** They thought I was opposed to letting the genderspecials have a separate changing area, when really what I was opposed to is the abolition of women and girls' spaces. They didn't realize that not only was the latter on the table, it's the current policy. This is California, they're all typical Democrat voters. They think that being an "LGBT ally" and "inclusive" means supporting sensible compromises like adding a genderspecial locker room. They don't realize it means **abolishing** women's spaces. They had no idea that the actual policy is that women and girls are not allowed ANYTHING of our own, that the actual policy is that literally EVERYTHING must be ceded to ANY man at any time. The idea that a whole ass fully intact teen boy with male genitalia would demand access to watching teen girls undress was absurd to them, but it's literally the law here. I am reminded of the Wi Spa incident which took place in LA. The woman there also had no idea it was California law. I feel like we need a huuuuge PR campaign. How is it that women in the UK are so much more aware of the issues? Things are just as dire if not moreso in California. When Republicans vote R, they generally know they're voting against abortion access. When my friends blindly check a box next to (Democrat) they don't even realize they're voting against women's rights and spaces. They don't know what they're voting for! How do we even raise awareness?

53 comments

They don't. They really have no idea what is actually being asked for, because they've learned not to ask questions or look too deeply into it. By design. #NoDebate #TWAW

I hate how often I see something along the lines of "I don't really understand this but doctors that are smarter than me do and they say it's okay therefore it's okay". I'm a big believer in the scientific method, I do generally trust doctors, but sometimes you have to look into things and the quality of the evidence and on this issue the medical "evidence" is either nonexistent or of extremely low quality.

I’ve worked too long in mental health to not understand that social science has corrupted medicine.

I trusted doctors once. But then again, they are the third leading cause of death in the US (after cancer and heart disease). And they have a particularly bad track record when it comes to women. I decided my trust was misplaced.

controversial take: I think the medical industry as it currently operates is part of indoctrinating the population into passivity and accepting levels of authoritarian control, literally from birth onwards.

definitely a spicy opinion, not something I’ve ever even considered before though. But thinking about it, I think you are probably right. Even if it’s not an intentional design, it still functions that way.

Yeah, the reason most people don't understand it is not because the subject is as complicated as quantum physics for example. It's because it doesn't make sense.

[–] sarstan 7 points Edited

I did this for several years until I couldn't. Then I peaked, pretty much right away.

Interesting, maybe we haven't been specific enough and should use more forceful terms like " I don't agree with banning single-sex change rooms for girls & women.'

I really think we need to phrase it this way so it's more clear what is going on. It's not inclusion, it's the abolition of women's rights and spaces. Even then people talk about the "trans issue" when it's literally not, it's about women's rights. The framing and messaging on this issue is so bad.

[–] hmimperialtortie AGP = evil 19 points

The idea that a whole ass fully intact teen boy with male genitalia would demand access to watching teen girls undress was absurd to them

Did they never know any teenage boys in their entire lives? 👀

Dems on Twitter are pretty smug right now...excited for the wrong reasons. I'm just tired and trying not to snap from the fear of it all.

I don't trust the American president to make decisions due to his age, I don't want Trump because he's old AF too and a misogynist .Roe is hanging by a thread and the Gender Woo is seeping in like a black tar. I'm losing hope and trying to stay away from politics. People still think the Republicans are the big evil bad but they are both looking more and more alike as time passes.

No one cares about women...

[–] Chronicity 20 points Edited

They don’t understand because the mind naturally defaults to the most reasonable of assumptions. We wouldn’t be able to function if we didn’t do this as a habit.

No one would ever assume Dems would be so crazy as to abolish single-sex spaces by fiat. That by itself is hard to get your head around. Now try to add to this vision them demonizing feminists at the same time Republicans are also gutting women’s rights. I can’t blame normies for being skeptical of this because it’s nothing like we’ve ever seen. Crazy is the only word that fits.

JKR’s June 2020 activism was so impactful because the crazy monster had to come out of the shadows to attack her. Most of us who post here saw this happening in real time and we were permanently changed. These normies somehow missed all of that. So they will need their hands held and guided patiently to the truth.

I agree with all of this so hard. I'm still trying to explain it, hell I myself find it hard to believe sometimes just how blatant and awful the misogyny from BOTH parties is. People are still clinging to some outdated idea the Democrats care about women's rights.

When Trump was in office, I suspect the same phenomenon happened to conservatives. The inane things that came of the White House washed right over them because their minds assumed the most charitable explanations for it. Plenty knew, don’t get me wrong, but a lot of them didn’t because why think critically about the conduct of a party you’ve trusted all your life? The party of “family values” that put a philandering pig in office.

The shoe is on the other foot now.

The people not aware at this point, imo, rarely spend time online outside of their personal Facebook which only includes their social circle of others just like themselves who are also unaware. I think Facebook is the frontier we need to conquer, and it will require bravery to do it. People need to see someone they know and trust, openly pointing out what's wrong. Just small things like, pointing out the T is homophobic, share links to PITT, share snippets of news articles with girls being assaulted etc. Shed light on the issue, and risk the loss of anonymity. People will likely just read and move on, not engage. But the seed of thought will be planted. One more crack in the trans iron curtain. And yes, using correct phrasing, we can't use the trans vocabulary, it only helps them. Point out that girls' sports are being banned. Women's prisons are being made co-ed. There are no third spaces being made, the T wants women's spaces only, nothing else.

What drives me nuts is that these people have the same access to information as everyone else. Most people don't realize there is any kind of law about trans women in women's spaces until they see dick in their changing room. Even then, many think trans women have had bottom surgery when over 90% haven't. Any time I have brought this issue up online I have had posts removed or been shouted down by Trans zealots. They can't have the information getting out of what they're really trying to do here.

There are vaguely worded articles like "Republicans pass hate bill against trans kids healthcare." when what they mean is that a bill has been passed making amputation of body parts on minors illegal.

I expect the Democrats to lose the mid terms tonight and to see lots of articles in the next few days about white women and Karens who don't know what's good for them and won't go along with Woke Bros and vote Dem. What kind of party continually mocks a demographic of their voters like this? I did vote Dem this time but if they continue with this trans nonsense it will be my last vote cast for them.

One thing that drives me crazy is how many women I know sought a hysterectomy for medical reasons (usually related to PCOS, endometriosis, or other painful conditions) and were denied by a condescending doctor who told them they might want children later. I've seen SO many women either experience this personally, or know a woman who experienced this personally. They then argue "Nobody would perform a hysterectomy on a minor; I know first hand it's impossible to get one".

They don't realize that yes actually, if you say you have gender dysphoria and are going to kill yourself, doctors WILL perform a hysterectomy on a teen girl. They literally cannot believe it.

What kind of party continually mocks a demographic of their voters like this?

They're hoping to shame these women into doing what they want because that's a tactic that works well with female socialization.

How is it that women in the UK are so much more aware of the issues? Things are just as dire if not moreso in California.

I think one thing that works against you is that the state of california alone is twice the size of the UK. We’re so so so so so much smaller than the United States so when there’s fuckery afoot we’re quicker to know about it, notice it and try and put a stop to it. The sheer size of the United States is so difficult to fathom.

This is a very fair point. I also think the medical scandal side of all this is going to be slower to resolve here because no NHS = no cass report. We have no centralized method for gathering data on medical treatments.

At the same time it isn’t American cops I keep hearing about arresting someone for comments online.

Things got way more extreme in the UK

At the same time it isn’t British schools I keep hearing about transing kids behind their parents backs

What I said wasn’t to be a dig at Americans in just saying I think it can be harder because the country is so big.

The ability to change gender recognition in Scotland is/was big news. Here in the US people can now change their Sex on Social Security ID and passports at will. Biden adminstration passed these updates stealthily.

Most women have no idea what is being pushed, because any sort of questioning just leads to “BIGOT!” And the brainwashing that “trans rights are human rights and all of this is just to give innocent trans people rights” is so, so, so effective.

I've given up trying to educate people via conversations because it doesn't work. They have to come to their conclusions or change their views by themselves after being with their own thoughts for a while, and without interference from me or anyone else. Let them mull it over alone and they may change their minds, but trying to teach them is doomed to failure these days.

As an example - I was once talking with someone about men in women's prisons. They denied it was happening. When I showed him evidence of it happening and the harms being done he just became defensive and tried to tell me the cases I showed him were rare mistakes. I could not win him over with facts because he was more interested in defending his side. The next time I had that conversation with someone I changed tack slightly. This person also denied it was happening. I said, "Ok, let's say it isn't happening, but if it were to happen, would you agree with me that it would be a terrible thing that cannot be defended?" She became suspicious that I had evidence of it happening so she folded her arms and said she wouldn't agree because she would have to look into the reasons why it may be happening if it actually was happening.

From now on I'm just going to tell them that they can disbelieve me all they want but that the facts are out there if they want to investigate for themselves. I will then change the subject and leave them to think about it later. Very few people are willing to say in the middle of a conversation, "You're right, and I'm wrong. You have changed my mind on this and from today on I will think differently." People have to come to their own conclusions through solitary contemplation.

Before changing the topic, you could also drop in a mollifying “I know it’s hard to believe…” or “I had the same exact reaction as you when I first learned about this…”.

People get defensive when they feel called out for not knowing something they should’ve known. The defensiveness will be directly proportional to the support they’ve given to that thing. So the more we can spare their egos in these conversations, the more likely they won’t feel like the baddie they are worried about being.

Makes me wonder if one effective strategy might be to come out and say something like “I feel bad that a lot of well-meaning people are unknowingly supporting policies that hurt women. The messages being communicated to the public are so confusing and misleading.”

I think someone truly open to what you are saying will ask you to elaborate. And because you’ve told them upfront that they are “well-meaning”, they may be less defensive. Just a theory though.

I think this phrasing is very good as well. I say it too. And anyway, it's sincere. I do feel bad.

I think your way of approaching this is very solid and I will try to incorporate some of your techniques as well. In general, I don't push hard. I usually make one or two statements and let it rest. eg A different acquaintance who was originally from Texas complained about the governor banning "trans kids" or whatever and I said something like "I dunno, I think it's a pretty complex issue, I heard Sweden and the UK are putting restrictions on those treatments too and they're not conservative bigots or anything".

I do like your idea of asking them how they'd react if what we were saying WAS true (even though it is lol). It reminds me of somebody I knew who found an effective way to talk to people from countries with strict political persecution (think China, North Korea, etc). He'd rarely ask people directly their opinion on X, but rather favored using historical examples or hypotheticals eg "If you were alive 200 years ago what do you think you would do?" "If this policy happened in [the USA/UK/Canada/etc] what would you think of it?" and so on. Hypothetical questions are such a great way to get people thinking outside of the box and out of the rut of repeating thought terminating slogans.

Very few people are willing to say they are wrong in the middle of the conversation, but a large percentage are willing, afterwards, in private, to say to themselves, “could she be right?” and go look it up.

The job of the conversation is to plant the seed

Yep, planting seeds works better than arguing. Arguing only works to persuade ignorant witnesses that haven't formed their own opinion yet.

Interesting perspective - thank you!

[–] Fluffy_gender 1 points Edited

Persuasion is a whole science. In general, arguing doesn't work. People be come defensive and are more likely to defend a position they don't even believe in all that strongly when challenged

[+] [Deleted] 12 points

OMG how frustrating!

I’m really curious how the rest of the conversation went, did you set them right? Did they refuse to believe they’d misunderstood?

There was no huge blowout or fanfare or anything. They didn't argue that they misunderstood, they were just kinda like "oh, I see". I don't push people too hard because I know peaking can be a slow gradual process and I don't want to overwhelm or alienate people overnight.

Actually, it's not the first time gender has come up in a group chat of mine, a different mixed sex colleague group chat had one guy (!) come out and say he didn't think non binary was real, he framed it more as a "I don't understand this, isn't everybody a mix of feminine and masculine personality traits?" but whether he had the words for it or not he was definitely peaking. In that group one wokebro chastised him and said a line or two about uterus havers, identities are valid, blahbla. Again conversation kinda dropped off really fast, but I think it's noteworthy people didn't actively defend the TRA wokebro either.

Yeah that sounds good, they probably stored the information up and it will lead to future peaking. But it’s almost more frustrating that they clearly know it’s wrong and can’t bring themselves to say it!

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