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Some armchair psychology about the "nonbinary" club shooter and why I had a feeling
Not to pretend I'm psychic and amazeballz, but when I saw this club shooting I had a feeling it wasn't some Proud Boy or Christian Conservative. For a few reasons. Let alone us. As awful as those guys are, as-of-yet other groups have, in recent years, committed a lot of homophobic violence. The Orlando nightclub shooter was an Afghan whose family was sympathetic to the Taliban. He grew up hearing violent rhetoric from his family and the people his family associated with. From the time he was little. Every day. It wasn't just bigotry. It's was the Taliban's fetishization of violence. Their collective addiction to it.
What would nonbinary/trans have in common with a Taliban extremist?
Just based on what I see them say/write in their own words, they fantasize about violence. A LOT. Thinking about it, conversing about it, PRAISING it. Taliban members listen to their family's violent hate speech all their lives. Every day. From their relatives and the people their relatives associate with.
The brain is interactive. If you become addicted to violent rhetoric, as well as being brain-washed to believe that you are always righteous and the outgroup is always evil, you are set up to be violent. Most groups have the fallacy that they are righteous and outsiders are not. But not all of them obsess about violence against outsiders.
We know violent media is unhealthy:
The vast majority of laboratory-based experimental studies have revealed that violent media exposure causes increased aggressive thoughts, angry feelings, physiologic arousal, hostile appraisals, aggressive behavior, and desensitization to violence and decreases prosocial behavior (eg, helping others) and empathy. https://publications.aap.org/pediatrics/article/140/Supplement_2/S142/34161/Screen-Violence-and-Youth-Behavior?autologincheck=redirected?nfToken=00000000-0000-0000-0000-000000000000
If violent entertainment is bad, think how bad it is when PEOPLE are directly communicating to you that you should be violent. At least some time in the future. The outgroup deserves gruesome punishment. You are saving yourself and others if you make them suffer as much as possible. You are entitled to commit this violence, and you are brave if you do. That evil outgroup- don't you just hate them? When are you going to snap? Grow a spine already!
Now what if you are immersed in that kind of concentrated rage? Not just coming across it occasionally, but every damn day?
This kind of brainwashing works. Communists who wanted a better world for all wound up committing very cruel, disgusting acts of violence against innocent people. Even children. Normal people became deranged Nazis. It's not about left or right- it's about the amount of violence we dedicate our limited brain space to. It doesn't matter if it's leftist or rightist or religious or whatever. It's all the same chicken with different seasonings.
From what I can see, violent rhetoric is a big part of trans and non-binary culture. They now outnumber the "truscum" like Blaire White or Buck Angel. They watch tons of porn, violent media, and preferably violent porn. They are often fascinated with Antifas where they practice confrontation and violence. They take selfies with knives, guns, and bats. They write up grotesque fantasies of what violence they'd like to commit against others. (Especially against women). They share these fantasies and get praised. They give each other tips on what to do and how to do it.
As a result, most people don't like them. But we can't have THAT, now, can we? They believe they are entitled to a warm welcome wherever they go, because they are the Righteous Ones. They don't accept that rejection is part of life, and in many instances, reasonable. They believe they should be off-limits from accountability from outsiders. They only self-flagellate for each other. So even if they are told "you can't come here because of your scary behavior" they immediately believe they are being wronged. They are the righteous, beautiful group, others are the sinful, ugly group, so others need to obey.
TQ folks act this way with each other. Reinforcing each other's behavior. Enabling each other.
And society caved. College hooligans have made actual learning impossible, but they aren't ejected from campus. We pretend the horrible behavior isn't real, or very rare, or if we must, justified. Did you stab an 18 year old kid to death, but you're trans? We'll paint a mural of you in your honor! We just won't mention that you were stabbing a teenager and that's why the cops shot you dead.
I knew the Colorado shooting was unlikely to be one of us. Most of us "terfs" view violence as the problem in the world. The thought of violence is very common in the TQ community, especially with the men. Violence is the solution so long as they are the winners in any given conflict. For TQs that are against violence, they are either silent or silenced. They're outnumbered anyway, especially when they understandably leave the community altogether.
Most of these guys don't go further than the selfies and the murder/rape fantasy posts. But statistically, a few of them will. Many will escalate to things like assault and rape. A few will go to mass shootings. Especially if the ones in question have a brain injury, drug addiction, bad upbringing, etc. It's easy to say "well, it's the brain injury, drug problem, or bad upbringing, then." Except no. It makes no sense to say that the violent brainwashing had zero to do with the violence. You cannot say that words matter, that words can be literal violence, and then claim your calls to violence never led to violence. Misgendering can result in your death, but your calls to murder won't result in someone else's? Obsession with violence plays a role.
Show me the mass shooter that didn't view violent media all fucking day for years on end beforehand. Show me the one that didn't interact with other people obsessed with violence. "Loner" my ass. These loners are usually terminally online with others.
"He was a completely normal boy. He just liked watching gory videos all the time. And talking to other nutcases over the internet."
We're eager to talk about things like drug addiction, brain injury, traumatic upbringing, bullying, but mysteriously disinterested in violence obsession.
You ARE the company you keep. If you immerse yourself in porn, violent media, sharing violent rhetoric with similar people and hi-5ing each other over it, you are simply more likely to partake. If you don't watch porn, don't immerse yourself with non-stop violent media, and don't obsess over violence as a social activity, you are far less likely to partake. Since we largely don't do all those things, it was always unlikely to be one of us.
Why did "Mx. Aldritch" shoot up an LGBTQ nightclub? I don't know, but if I had to guess, he was previously booted out and felt entitled to be there. He no longer felt violence is wrong. He was outraged. LGB people were forced to welcome this garbage into their spaces, even though they are at higher risk of being harmed through violent crime. Lesbians especially were not allowed to set boundaries. And now gay men have also lost that basic right. Violent rhetoric against them was not an acceptable reason to say "you actually are not part of this community." They're forced to all be all under the same umbrella. LGB have to add TQ to the acronym. Even while enduring rape and death threats against them.
That's basically why I don't want these guys around kids or young people. Even if they don't display those behaviors in front of me, many do when they think they can get away with it. I don't see any TQ organizations doing anything about it; rather, they claimed they've been slandered.
No, it's not just a few bad apples.
No, not every group has an influential, violent fringe.
It should be okay to reject someone's company based on their violent rhetoric. It should not be on us to "look at the bigger picture; try to listen to what they're saying." We shouldn't be obligated to keep giving the benefit of the doubt no matter how often we see this kind of scary behavior.
I just don't believe trans is a real orientation, or even a real political movement. It's a social contagion driven by porn and addiction to violent fantasies. It's a mania. That's why the violent rhetoric is so common.
I am sick to the back teeth of suicide being weaponised.
Except in the rare cases of direct torture, suicide is ALWAYS the sole and final responsibility of the person who chose to do it.
Attempting to shift the blame onto outsiders is an abusive manipulation tactic. I am therefore not in the slightest bit interested in speculating "reasons" why anyone killed themselves. Only they will ever know. And save for loved ones and psychology professionals, it is no one else's business.
Attempting to shift the blame onto outsiders is an abusive manipulation tactic.
Its also a gross double standard. If a guy went to therapy and said, "I'm suicidal because my wife left me", the therapist wouldn't call the wife and say, "Call this divorce off or else Dave's death will be YOUR fault!". Nor would they pressure a weight loss surgeon to give lap band surgery to a 70 pound anorexic just because she's threatening suicide if she doesn't get it. But, when it comes to trans people, suddenly its EVERYONE'S job to cater to their every stupid whim lest they throw themselves off a rooftop
Democrat Karen Berg blamed 'vile anti-trans' hate and the lack of acceptance for her son's suicide.
As a mother, I want to give this woman grace because she lost a child. But I cannot let this slide. Her daughter was intensely privileged. Her daughter had her mother, her school, and her employer cheering on her transition. And, if Kentucky passed "anti-trans" laws she didn't like, she was free to move elsewhere. She was not hurting for acceptance of her make-believe identity.
It was an argument she also address to the senate in February - when she warned 'the world is coming after them,' referring to trans people like her son.
This melodramatic language helps no one. "The world is coming after them"? I hate to play Oppression Olympics, but if that was all it took to trigger suicide, 99% of the Jewish population would be dead via suicide. American slaves, Jews in Nazi Germany, and women in Afghanistan didn't have the suicide rate that trans people supposedly have. So framing a trans person's suicide as the result of oppression is both incorrect and a slap in the face to people who are actually marginalized
This is exactly what woke me up to how ridiculous this all was. They keep acting like the high suicide rate is the result of oppression. If that were true, wouldn't the African American suicide rate be way higher? Cause it isn't.
Ironically, suicide seems to largely be a problem among White people who are middle class. Its more connected to emotional instability than weather or not one's life is objectively terrible
Right? Women, Jewish people, black people, disabled people all suffer from actual oppression, yet their number one solution isn't killing themselves.
These are severely mentally ill people and instead of therapy we give them snake oil and mutilation, duh they're gonna kill themselves...
A loving and accepting family, a job in the field with co-workers who respect and support you, and yet....the suicide rate is higher AFTER transition. Yes, let's blame the meanies. It couldn't possibly be that a physically destroying regimen promising an impossible dream will never make someone happy...
24 is so young. She looked years older. Very sad.
24 is so young. She looked years older. Very sad.
The testosterone was likely wrecking her health. And stopping it wasn't an option because she was convinced that she needed it to validate her inner boy soul
I've heard there was a study, maybe in Sweden, showing the suicide rate in trans-identified people goes UP after medical/surgical transition.
Presumably this includes TIFs, and it's weird because if you aren't paying attention, quite a few of them pass pretty well, so they aren't visible enough to be drawing "bigotry" to themselves in any way unless they announce who they are.
(No one's responsible for actual bigotry except the bigot, of course. What I mean is in more of a "how do they know who to target" sense.)
This story will cause MORE TIF's to attempt (and some will complete) a suicide attempt.
Mental health professionals used to know this. Suicides encourage other suicides. Stories that suggest that TIF's will kill themselves literally encourages 'copycat attempts.' In the past, there have been minor epidemics of kids clustering suicide.
Shame on those who are reporting on this and shame on that senator who should know better (I know, I know, she's grieving. But this is so wrong!)
Suicide is always complicated and should never been reported on - like this.
All the official suicide prevention organizations say the same thing you just did. Its not okay for the media to paint a suicidal person as a martyr because that just encourages other people in that same position to do the same. Its so gross that they throw this caution to the wind just to coddle the trans cult. We TERFs care more about keeping trans people alive than their own "community" does
How many gender-dysphoric kids committed suicide due to their dysphoria before the era of smartphones and social media?
I'm betting that it was very close to zero. But now transition is widely marketed by activists as the solution to all of life's problems. To an ever-younger audience. While any criticism is silenced.
The solution should be fairly obvious.
The quacks ignore these people's other physical/mental health problems and laser focus on "TRANS" the moment a person expresses any GNC tendencies. So all their real problems get put on the back burner while they hop on the assembly line. And then poor kids like this one wake up one day and realize: "I took T. I cut off my breasts. I got everyone to call me 'he'. I wrecked my physical health and fertility for my transition. So why am I still depressed!?"
Transition is a scam. These people are told that if they take the drugs, and get the surgeries, and do the activism, and follow the gender doctrine… then they will be fully transformed and accepted as the opposite sex. This is obviously not true, but the cult exploits their desperation and deludes them.
When men who self ID as “women” are rightly recognized as men and kept out of sensitive spaces for women and girls, it invalidates the very core concept of trans identity. They are not, and never will be, women, and everyone knows it. The majority will never genuinely see or accept them as women, because they are men. Forever until death.
This comes in like a wrecking ball of realization and truth. Trans ID is invalid, and transition is a scam. It doesn’t work. It never will. You will never change sex, and the greater half of the real world is not going to just go along with your every delusion. Every “cis” person knows its a scam and they feel bad for you. Everyone who goes along with your Self Absorbed ID is just trying to be polite to spare your feelings or avoid trouble.
Imagine investing so much time, money, energy into something for years, and destroying your physical health towards that goal, for years, only to finally realize it was all bullshit. All for nothing. All a lie. A big scam. It would never work. Drugs and surgeries don’t actually change a person’s sex. Trans ID will never be valid.
She was in too deep. She couldn’t handle the peak.
“If everyone would just accept trans ID as the valid truth!” Sorry, but it’s not valid, and it never will be, because it’s all a big fucking lie. The truth is you can’t change sex, and sex matters for sensitive spaces and other sex specific issues.
So much pain all for nothing.
They can't even convince themselves trans ID is valid. They need/demand constant affirmation from others to try to help themselves rationalize something they know deep down is untrue and makes no sense. They're being encouraged by the cult to live in this deep state of denial that needs to constantly be maintained instead of just coming to terms with their sex. People come to terms with disabilities, diseases, and everything else, but come to terms with the fact that like everyone else you didn't get to pick your sex? Never!
So she did all the things they said are necessary to not commit suicide… And then committed suicide.
I wonder if she ever got mental health care that wasn’t just telling her that changing who she is is going to solve all her mental health problems.
The things mentioned have fuck all to do with her? What a convenient scapegoat.
Her mother sounds like a piece of work.
People with mental health problems to the magnitude that they need to do these things do NOT come from healthy, nurturing parents. But it’s a lot easier to blame someone else than themselves.
So she did all the things they said are necessary to not commit suicide… And then committed suicide.
Seriously! Her family was cheering on her transition. Her coworkers were cheering on her transition. Most of our major institutions are bending to gender bullshit. Are we meant to believe that this girl chose suicide just because Ron DeSantis and Greg Abbot aren't fans of genderwoo? Or that she'd still be alive if only more parents were cool with drag queens reading to pre-school kids?
I went to therapy for suicidal ideation. The FIRST thing I was told was that blaming others won't help because I cannot change other people. I can only change myself. I'm guessing this poor girl was never given that advice (and was instead encouraged to constantly feel attacked and blame the "evil transphobes" for her irrational feelings of persecution)
Her mother sounds like a piece of work.
She's not even waiting for the body to get cold before using it to further her career....
Their entire existence is pretending to be someone else and forcing validation from other people for their delusions, with a persecution fetish. No wonder it’s never enough.
Not sure if anyone looked at the pics, but this woman looks like a very average, gnc/butch/possibly lesbian woman. She doesnt read even a little bit male to me, I have several friends who look and dress alot like this woman. I also noticed the sister is a rabbi. I have no idea if this was a "trans the gay away" situation, but it's a shame that these kids are wasting their lives chasing the carrot on a stick that is trans instead of just accepting themselves and their sexed bodies and trying to get some kind of enjoyment out of life.
His final tweet was retweeting the words of his boss: 'State lawmakers have advanced an onslaught of anti-LGBTQ+ bills to restrict where and how we can freely and openly be our true selves.'
Except that's not at all what you're doing, and it's no wonder that what you are doing is negatively affecting your mental (and physical) health.
I thought exactly the same thing when I read the article. But in my OP I didn't want her looks to derail the main and most important issues. We've got women who are hellbent on pushing this brain virus. This TIF's mother is not a powerless woman. She's a senator. She has more power than most of us. Before that she was a doctor. She's part of the ruling class. We cannot continue to just call them "handmaidens" as if they're just some supporting cast or the cheerleading squad. She's leading the Democratic Party in instituting and solidifying this kind of bullshit into law and society. And now she's making her dead daughter into a martyr.
We cannot continue to just call them "handmaidens" as if they're just some supporting cast or the cheerleading squad. She's leading the Democratic Party in instituting and solidifying this kind of bullshit into law and society. And now she's making her dead daughter into a martyr.
So true. These TRA women in power are dangerous because they claim to speak for the rest of us. They advocate for males to colonize our spaces because they're privileged enough to never need a DV shelter or have a loved one in prison
I totally understand. As for her looks, I only commented about that because I suspect that not passing probably negatively affects tips mental health, and i wonder if thats part of what happened here. Imagine living in the big hug box provided by family and school, and then having to go out into the real world where people aren't aware of the alternate reality you've created for yourself. I'm sure it can be quite jarring.
But, I also wondered about why a doctor would be so keen on allowing this to happen to her child. Religious homophobia? And now, of course she's going to point the finger at society, it's better than the alternative.
I also noticed the sister is a Rabbi. I have no idea if this was a "trans the gay away" situation
I doubt it.. The sister is clearly a reform rabbi (she moonlights as a pro-choice activist). And her parents don't strike me as religious Jews. She's most likely just another young GNC lesbian who got sucked into the cult. And her leftie, Democrat mom encouraged it because having a trans kid was good for her brand
I agree. I saw her photos and I read her as a butch woman, as most people would. I think part of her distress would be from never being properly IDed by strangers as male, as she wanted to be. This is her delusion and not our responsibility.
On a daily basis at his job Henry would be aware of the hateful and vile anti-trans messaging being circulated around this country and focused at his workplace.
Committing suicide because of laws that don't affect you personally, or because of "vile anti trans messaging" circulating around the country? I call BS. Obviously she was mentally ill, and whatever steps she undertook to "transition" didn't help that.
She needed counseling, not hormones.
RIP, and may her memory be a blessing.
RIP, and may her memory be a blessing.
Sadly, her memory will be used as a cudgel to beat anyone who criticizes the trans cult. I honestly wouldn't be surprised if she left a note saying she killed herself for reasons completely unrelated to trans shit; but her mom and her coworkers in the HRC are choosing to lie and say that this girl killed herself because she was afraid DeSantis or Rowling were gonna leap out of the bushes and slap the testosterone syringes out of her hands.
The senator's daughter lied to herself.
Her daughter's friends, colleagues and coworkers lied to her. No one believed she was a man. Especially -- if she was into them -- gay men.
You cannot insist the entire world lie to make you happy.
Not even remotely surprised that there are a lot more TIF suicides. No one takes them seriously as "men" and they have no real power and privilege to force others to play along. These girls and women hoped to get out of all the mysogynist and traumatic abuse that comes with being female. Discovering that they can never escape womanhood, no matter how desperately they flee, is too much to bear for some and they can't live with the betrayal that all they did to themselves can never give them the escape they seek.
The men who play make-believe "woman" have the male privilege to force others to play along, which everyone does out of fear of these mentally unstable, vindictive, and potentially violent men. Everyone knows these guys are not women. They know they aren't. But they get off on forcing women to support the fantasy and that keeps them going.
I'd also like to point out that TIF tends to have visible permanent changes from HRT (there are health conditions associated w all the HRT, I'm just talking cosmetically). And that permanent change women find themselves stuck with after the first step of medical transition often makes them think they cannot go back -I think THAT is the most nihilistic part of TIF's
A man taking estrogen will have minor physical changes to his appearance, and they tend to revert once he goes off and he can reassume his life as a man fairly easily.
Women on T have changed in facial hair (potentially baldness) and voice depending and those things don't go away when women go off T (basically steroid use in women on HRT)
And almost every last one of them becomes morbidly obese on it. That visceral fat is a huge risk factor for diabetes.
??? I know many TIFs, only a handful are morbidly obese. Most are about average for women in the US, spectrum from a little thin to somewhat overweight. If you tend to store fat, it changes where, to visceral and belly fat which is not metabolically healthy especially for females. Honestly I have probably known more, that are too thin, or have restrictive eating disorders than those who are that big.
Also skeletal changes.
Can you explain more about the skeletal changes that women on T undergo? I knew there were worrying skeletal changes in girls put on "puberty blockers" to halt their development, but I didn't know about the changes to the female skeleton that come from taking T.
https://wng.org/roundups/a-transitioning-debate-1621026955 link to photo of Sametti's face, TIF detrans.
I can't explain it; I watched Swedish documentary in which a female musician and detrans TIF was profiled, and she felt her face and hands read as male, people would ask her what she was, ie, male or female. As a result of testosterone. You can Google Sametti, that is her name, she has youtube channel and IG. I guess everyone responds differently to testosterone; when you started taking it, etc. But if there are changes to vocal cords, it makes sense that bone growth in face might be affected? The skeleton in the face might be thicker, orbital ridge and other features.
Exactly this. It's so fucking tragic and sickening what's happening to these women. I wish it was easier to get to these women with radical feminism before they mutilate themselves.
We have to start dealing with the issue that it's not just men pushing this shit. There are absolutely women out there pushing this, completely apart from men. Blame it on whatever you want. It doesn't matter. The point is: Whatever the reason, these women and TIFs are not our friends.
The most fervent and devout TRA I know is a woman.
She also claims she’s a TRA because “excluding transwomen excludes all women” 🙄 She thinks that womanhood includes all and anyone who identifies as a woman.
She truly believes that she is a strong feminist. At the same time, she thinks JKR is a massive bigot and anyone who “gate keeps” women’s spaces/sports is a total fascist.
It is very much women who are the grunts and boot soldiers on the ground pushing this. I think it's a problem of this forum to pretend this isn't a fact and only shift discussions to powerful men on the top with money pushing this behind the scene. We already know about that. What's not openly talked about enough is the masses of women pushing this in elementary schools, kindergartens, FB groups, Pinterest, and other social media groups dominated mainly by women members and run by women admins. They're everywhere. There is no excuse for this. If we don't talk about how to stop these women, we'll never stop this shit.
The fact is: normie men on FB groups never police people's pronouns and any such bullshit. But tons and tons of women on FB do and tons of them sing this tune. The normie men just roll their eyes and move along, they don't even get involved. The culture of women's spaces are way way too infested by this shit. We need to talk about how to walk all this back among women.
Agreed. Women are very often footsoldiers for patriarchy and should be held accountable when they are. I don't see what we benefit from pretending that they aren't.
It's absolute insanity to me that i only managed to peak my male friends. I just cannot talk to women about this, they always block or so talking to me sigh notable exception is my amazing mum
I think you're right, except that I do see a lot of discussion on Ovarit about the problem of "handmaidens" and "pick me" women who have bought into and are helping drive the transdemic.
Many of us acknowledge that this behaviour in some women arises from being conditioned to "be kind" and to want to protect the vulnerable, combined with them wanting to please and appease the men who want to invade women's spaces and identities, combined with being brainwashed by a patriarchal system to believe that sexism is no longer a thing, that women's have won "equality".
Plus, in academic contexts, there is a bunch of women who have gone down the rabbit hole of believing, because the problem is gender, that therefore the solution is to "queer" gender rather than to dismantle it, where "queering" gender means to disregard biological sex instead of recognising the truth that biological sex is the driver of women's oppression and that it underlies gender oppression rather than being secondary to it. Judith Butler started this misdirection, and for her it was a mixture of a shrewd career move to position herself within a poststructuralist tradition whilst differentiating herself from the other theorists, mixed with a fair dose of struggling to come to terms with being a lesbian herself.
It's not even about being kind. It's about proving yourself the most obedient and therefore the most virtuous.
And because we're women, we often are led to believe that we are rewarded for our virtue - not for our other qualities.
Yeah, I never really bought the "be kind" crap for this reason. These women are NEVER kind to other women (which would be true kindness, since there's no social reward for it--in fact it's often punished). It's just smug virtue signalling.
1000%. It's also telling that their version of "being kind" is almost never actually kind.
I think it is like you say, competition between women. They could be competing over clothing, wealth, what school your kid goes to etc, and this is an extension of that 'beating the Joneses" mentality.
there is a bunch of women who have gone down the rabbit hole of believing, because the problem is gender, that therefore the solution is to "queer" gender rather than to dismantle it, where "queering" gender means to disregard biological sex instead of recognising the truth that biological sex is the driver of women's oppression
I'm quoting this because I think you've pointed out something that is both a big part of the reason so many self-described feminists are TRAs, and – more optimistically – the one simple fact that might bring them around if we could get them to focus on it, i.e. that sex is at the root of our oppression.
I think it's all this, plus a disconnection from our sexuality and our bodies, and/or past sexual trauma, that prevents us from taking a hard look at it.
It’s also about deriving self importance by whoring social justice issues out to get as much attention and internet brownie points as possible.
The fact is: normie men on FB groups never police people's pronouns and any such bullshit. But tons and tons of women on FB do and tons of them sing this tune.
I don't use FB, but I do post on a sports-related forum where nearly all the posters are male. Many of the guys there think trans and gender ideology are BS, and some see how harmful and misogynisitc this stuff is. But there are still many guys there who do sing the TRA tune. Moreover, even the "normie" guys who think the trans movement & gender ideology are BS still police other people's pronouns and scorn me as a TERF and bigot (and worse) because they have fallen for the lie that everyone's claimed "gender identity" must be respected and affirmed by others - and they believe that when push comes to shove, the feelings of TIMs and other males come first and it's thus incumbent on females to budge up and shut up to accommodate and mollify TIMs and other males.
The culture of women's spaces are way way too infested by this shit. We need to talk about how to walk all this back among women.
Yes I completely agree, has this been spoken about much before on Ovarit I wonder? I’m relatively new here.
My own opinion is on this forum these TRAs women are spoken like they're exceptions and isolated cases of women doing bad shit to other women, or else they're "handmaidens" doing the bidding of men like lapdogs. I no longer accept this. They are not isolated exceptions. There are too many of them. They're not handmaidens either who can't think for themselves and have no real power and thus attach themselves to men seeking male protection ala "right wing women" Dworkin style. What they are, are part of the Elites. Supporting trans at the top of the oppression heirarchy is the way they set themselves apart as the wealthy and/or educated selective Elites. For all their talks about "inclusive", they are anything but. Pushing this surreal, anti-science, anti-truth idealism as the New Moral Virtue is their way of excluding everyone who aren't part of what they determined to be their in group of superior thinkers. The rest of us are "uneducated" who can't speak their new languages and pronouns in their "polite society", ruffians who don't know how to "be kind" like the cultural elites that they are.
It is basically Mean Girls: The New Era.
Mean Women: Mean Girls Grow Up. Mean Women Making Buck in Academia. The other women, the women who are reality-based, maybe first-generation college student, abuse survivor - they can go fuck themselves.
Its a new form of patriarchal bargain and one that brings women some degree of real power, especially in places that are female dominated or have a concentration of women, aka the humanities, non profits, childrens hospitals, school systems and so on. I think male-identified women, are happy to have a way to exile other women who are a power threat to them, and have a way to occasionally threaten men with the trans shit, because the 'woman' union now includes certain men, and particularly nasty and dangerous ones at that. Bargain is shut up about the AGPs so long as using them as a wedge is working, and you can shut up feminists who might have a bone to pick about the ways you wield power, or the existence or function of institutions where that power is concentrated, or who might be your direct competitor
This is a very good point. Many of the women pushing this will never have to put skin in the game, or their partially undressed daughter in a locker room. That said, the propaganda on this is over the top. I live in a very conservative state. This is being pushed in the schools. For very young children too. It seems a muppet transitioned some time back and a child friend told me all about it. How we were being nice to Elmo so he could wear a dress. This isn’t a wealthy area.
Internalized misogyny and the way real world women use it to enhance their status as slaves and keep lower slaves in place is a genuine problem for feminism. Too often the criticism of internalized misogyny becomes its own vector of misogyny. Theorists have only recently named and described the phenomenon.
We do have to grapple with it, but how to do so is a Gordian knot. It’s not just a problem around trans activism either. It’s a problem in the gutted #MeToo movement that has gone too far and a problem that blocks class consciousness on the most quotidian levels. It is a problem full stop and we need to discuss solutions without falling prey to the problem ourselves.
Cult members don’t know they’re cult members…
She truly believes that she is a strong feminist. At the same time, she thinks JKR is a massive bigot and anyone who “gate keeps” women’s spaces/sports is a total fascist.
I'd guess that like most people, she hasn't read JK's initial tweet/essay (or seen the Lia Thomas podium photo), and is just hating who she's been told to hate.
Then again, evidence, logic, and compassion are ineffective against the truly indoctrinated. It's like trying to argue evolution vs. creationism.
She also claims she’s a TRA because “excluding transwomen excludes all women”
I believed exactly this before I peaked. My primary exposure to gender-critical arguments was Tumblr, where, to be frank, most posters are quite young and not very bright. The gender-critical position should be the easiest thing in the world to defend succinctly -- "manhood and womanhood are about sex, not personality" -- but enough people there brought extraneous arguments into it that it really did come off as exclusionary to me. For example, a lot of autistic TIMs were given shit for behaving autistically in "ways only a man would", which rang false to me as an autistic woman who has often behaved in those exact ways. Or things like "a real woman would dress/do her makeup better than that".
I don't take that stuff to heart anymore. I know that the only reason men aren't women is because they are male, and that both men and women can have any constellation of personality traits. But if your only exposure to GC thought is teenagers on Tumblr accidentally reinforcing gender stereotypes through bad argumentation, I can see how you would come to believe that excluding TIMs is the canary in the coalmine for excluding other groups of actual women.
A woman who refused to accept herself as she was tried to force others to accept her as something she was not. She said she felt unsafe walking down the street because she feared people who didn't coddle her delusion, but her life was taken not by strangers who wouldn't accept her but by her own hands because she couldn't accept she was perfect just the way she was. Blaming suicide on anyone but the victim/perpetrator is disingenuous and prepetuates victim mentality. Shame on this mother for blaming strangers for her daughter's actions.
Shame on this mother for blaming strangers for her daughter's actions.
Maybe she's not ready to face the fact that, by enabling this trans delusion, she lead her daughter into an early grave
We have to start dealing with the issue that it's not just men pushing this shit.
I keep saying it, and people keep getting mad at me. Women support trans intrusion on women's rights and spaces at much higher rates than men. I'm sure the moneyed interests behind the scene are mostly men, but women are doing almost all of the heavy lifting. And, if we didn't support it in large numbers, it would be much easier to stop.
I keep saying it, and people keep getting mad at me. Women support trans intrusion on women's rights and spaces at much higher rates than men.
Sadly, liberal women have this self defeating attitude that its their job to be Activism Nannies for every so-called "oppressed" group. Even if advocating for said group goes against female interests. This bullshit attitude is why The Women's March is a joke and now advocates for every issue EXCEPT female rights. And why even abortion organizations like NOW & PP constantly virtue signal about how important it is to prioritize men in lipstick even when talking about abortion access. Women's rights won't get anywhere if we can't break liberal women out if this conditioning
TIMs hate TIFs, envy them for their comparative ease in passing, in getting lesbians, for their genitals (which they also hate them for squandering). They use TIFs for validation, for victimhood status when claiming female rape statistics, and piss their pants and shriek about transmisogyny, and how very dare any TIFs suggest that they might still be victim of actual misogyny from transwomen, who grew up with (this is the worst thing you can accuse them of, so remember it) MALE SOCIALIZATION.
There's so many reasons why a TIF might kill herself, but I refuse to believe that the constant toxic demands that TIMs make on them didn't play at least a small part here. I guarantee there's going to be some whispers between her friends about the ghoulish reaction transwomen will have, after they've seen how TIFs are treated by them, and god willing that will peak a few. It does happen, rare as it is; TIMs are so unpleasant that they can snap us out of our delusions sometimes, and if there's any silver lining to such an awful situation, I hope that's one.
We have to start dealing with the issue that it's not just men pushing this shit. There are absolutely women out there pushing this, completely apart from men. Blame it on whatever you want. It doesn't matter. The point is: Whatever the reason, these women and TIFs are not our friends. Like Phyllis Schlafly before them, lot of them are actively pushing a horrific agenda against women. Worse than Schlafly, they're pushing and misleading children to mutilate and sterilize themselves.
This is phrased as though most of us have not been recognizing and "dealing with the issue that it's not just men pushing this shit" all along. I don't think this is true. At all.
Most "GC" people are fully aware that the trans agenda has been pushed and is being pushed by many, many women and girls. Such as Judith Butler, Diane Ehrenshaft, Joanna Olson-Kennedy, Aydin Olson-Kennedy, Susie Green, Polly Carmichael, Alice Dreger, Jeanette Jennings, DeShanna Neal (who has transed 3 of her 4 sons), Jodie Patterson, the "yeet the teets" surgeon from Ireland currently making a killing by doing double mastectomies on girls & young women in Miami, the female pediatrician and counselors seen in Matt Walsh's film, the largely female staff at most gender clinics, El Page, Oprah Winfrey, Barbara Walters, Laurie Penny, Emma Watson, most Hollywood actresses and other female people in the film and entertainment industry, the female on-screen journalists, producers and news writers at PBS News Hour and NPR and the rest of the MSM, the women of The View, the women who work for and with organizations like GLAAD, NOW, Ms. Foundation, and the National Lesbian Law Center, Athlete Ally and so on. And many many TIFs.
Add Nicola Surgeon to the list.
Good call - and very apt considering what's going on in Scotland at the moment. My list was not meant to be comprehensive. There are hundreds of other names I could have added.
Yes there are loads but as you say, Nicola Sturgeon is particularly uppermost in many of our minds.
I was glad you called out Laurie Penny. I find her particularly toxic and lacking in either insight.
yeah, i don't think anyone is unaware women are far too complicit in this. Usually they get called "handmaidens" rather than being considered the original source of the movement, but they are obviously a very large contingent. I think the theory is, it's men who profit most so who are pushing hardest - have multiple accounts and say whatever necessary all over the place to just get a mantra going in their own self-interest. Then women tend to want to look good, virtue signal, and please the cool kids, so they will make a point of supporting it in public, though they may not put as much overtime energy into it anonymously.
Among "normie" men, it's a benefit to support it but also doesn't matter, whereas for women, it is dangerous to talk against it and it matters a lot, so they're more likely to just stay quiet. You have to take a risk to be "Terf"
The true believers, which most TIFs are, aren’t mentally well by definition. This alone makes them higher risk for suicide. And the really devout ones imagine themselves as martyrs.
None of this could ever have happened without social media and the smartphone. This last decade has been a disaster for girls.
Sad. IMHO? They often have some form of unhappiness or emotional problems to begin with before they "settle" on the gender issue...before they politicize their lack of a feeling of harmony with themselves, there is often already other stuff going on with them.
Pretty fucking evil of her to exploit her daughter's death for a basically unrelated political cause. Really makes you wonder what kind of relationship they had...
Really makes you wonder what kind of relationship they had...
Shes likely the Jeannette Jennings type of mother who sees her kids as tools she can use to market herself. She couldn't even wait for her child's body to go cold before using her death to score political points.
The trans activists and even this mother are so hungry to glom all over this woman's suicide and use her for their own ends. The mother needs to displace blame, otherwise how could she go on? Better blame it on the people who live in reality.
Berg-Brousseau was honored by his mother on Tuesday, in which she said 'a lack of acceptance took a toll on Henry' after politicians tried to 'exacerbated the culture wars.'
You mean politicians like you? Who stood on this trans soapbox and used your TIF daughter to gain Woke Ally Points? Which would mean she couldn't detransition if she ever had doubts? THAT kind of "culture war"?
Tangent but I’ve heard about more and more TIF suicides lately. It's pretty well established that although more women attempt it, they typically use less violent means, so (fortunately) women often survive suicidal attempts. But I’ve heard of more women on testosterone successfully dying by suicides — jumping in front of traffic/trains/from great heights, etc. Things that are impulsive (often suicide is impulsive, of course) and often more associated with male suicidal behavior. Very sad. I wonder what the suicide stats are for TIFs who start testosterone young, before their front cortexes are fully developed.
(Edited to fix some typos, there may be some I missed!)
We will never know those stats if the suicides are registered as “men”
Accurate stats are impossible with self ID and institutional collaboration.
Tangent but I’ve heard about more and more TIF suicides lately. It's pretty well established that although more women attempt, they with typically less violent means, so (fortunately) more women often survive suicidal attempts. But I’ve heard of more women on testosterone successfully dying by suicides
I heard this mentioned in a podcast just yesterday and was thinking about it and then saw your comment!
Wow! Do you remember which podcast/ episode?
Yep it was a paediatrician called Dr. Julia Mason talking on a podcast called True Thirty. It’s on Spotify and also on Substack which I’ll link below. She talks about that exact suicide issue with TiFs that you mentioned, and she talks at length about a lot of the issues around the medicalisation of kids. https://open.substack.com/pub/truethirty/p/should-we-medicalize-children-with?r=1ne986&utm_medium=ios&utm_campaign=post
If they need to blame anyone for their daughter's death,, they should be blaming the psychological institutions that push the narrative that suicide is inevitable if a trans person doesn't get everything that they want the moment they demand it. Actual therapists recognize how dangerous it is to treat suicide that way when it comes to other problems. But, when it comes to trans people, they're like, "Aiden, you know that trans people will immediately jump into traffic if they're misgendered, right?" or "If you can't get a T prescription, your dysphoria will metastasize and you'll have no choice but to kill yourself".
THIS is why these people end their lives. Their mental illness is exacerbated by a medical system that cares more about selling them services than helping them live functional lives!
Gender dysphoria in women is apart of a larger mental health problem.
Theirs no evidence that transitioning alleviates those mental health issues.
TRAs are going to keep moving the bar. They’ll push for earlier and earlier transition while demanding more and more special treatment.
This is very sad for this woman but what exactly caused the suicide? What exactly is happening that is SO terrible for adult TIFs that this transman committed suicide?
Are they being barred from toilets? I don't think so. Are they being prevented from getting transition treatments as adults? No that I've heard. Is it getting really difficult for this person to get an abortion should there be a rape? Yeah that's happening but if affects all "afabs" not just TIFs.
What bigotry is out there that is harming TIFs? I would like to know. All I see is support for trans people.
I'm guessing this girl killed herself for reasons completely unrelated to trans stuff. But her mother and her HRC comerades aren't gonna disclose that because its much more useful to pretend that she killed herself because of anti-trans shit she heard from DeSantis or Rowling or whoever
She (daughter) was deputy press secretary for politics for the Human Rights Campaign, one of the nation's largest LGBTQ advocacy organizations.
💯 women who drink the trans coolaid are just advertising their internalized mysoginy- and absolutely no woman can snap them out of it. Only can snap women out of internalized mysoginy. Because the implicit contract hinges on men's treatment of them if they 'behave properly' and until they realize that men will behave the same regardless of women's behavior they will NEVER look beyond a man.
The ideology of transness is very religious, the TIFs see how Joan of Arc has been transed and actively seek to martyr themselves to be like her and to prove that their transness isn't constrained by their bodies, only by bigotry and lack of body modifications 🙄
and absolutely no woman can snap them out of it. Only can snap women out of internalized mysoginy. Because the implicit contract hinges on men's treatment of them if they 'behave properly' and until they realize that men will behave the same regardless of women's behavior they will NEVER look beyond a man.
This is certainly not my experience when I was IDing as a TIF, or in other detrans women I know. I think this is possibly the case with heterosexual TIFs, but not really in lesbian TIFs, from experience.
I don't care.
This woman's suicide is being used as propaganda for full infiltration of trans people into places segregated by sex ; however irritating it is for men to have trans "men" foisted on them , they're in no danger from these females.
Trans woMEN, OTOH, are a danger to women : How many more incarcerated women have to be assaulted by criminals willing to self ID into their spaces-? How many more school children have to make themselves sick because they're unwilling to use unisex toilets-?How many more college students have fully intact trans "girls" invading their showers and locker rooms -? How many more allegedly 'public' places (including hospitals, gyms, store changing rooms or restrooms) have to be made de facto off limits to women, because of trans invasions-?
I care about the female victims of these policies, and I do not think this girl's suicide is such a big loss to the world as to make it the justification for a ceasing of the long overdue pushback on trans woMEN invasions. And I make no apologies for this stance.
I believe transitioning generates more dysphoria than not transitioning at all, because dysphoria is just the feeling of incongruence between reality and a TIP’s inner sense of self. The more you try to chase the pipe dream of changing sex, the more obvious it becomes that you can’t. Even passing TIPs are living a lie that’s very mentally taxing to maintain. The TIPs who are happy with their transition are so disconnected from reality they’re in a permanent state of delusion and magical thinking, which is not something worth aspiring to.
It's mentally taxing to deal with the hatred of women, the exploitation of women, the impact of trans movement on women's ability to earn a living in chosen professions, etc, FOR ME. Nobody gives a crap. The liberal mass media doesn't give a crap. Family members don't give a crap. No one I know gives a crap. I have no one to talk to about this, even therapists have been on trans train. I'm not going to kill myself - but if I did - do you think anybody would get up on a soapbox and blame the trans juggernaut? I'm SO fucking tired of trans self-indulgent "the world's against me woe is me" when women like me, we're always encountering the same old male bullshit, and there are SO FEW people in real life (I met ONE) to connect with. FUCK!
I feel you. I'm at my breaking point, I'm not even exaggerating. I'm currently writing a long letter I'm planning to send to representatives and people with a platform hoping at least one person will read it. It's the only thing I can do, but I'm incredibly overwhelmed with the amount of information I have to compile.
Someone told me elected officials prefer shorter letters. But whatever you need to do for you, do it.
I think you’re right. I’ll try not to make it too long.
This 1000x over. Dysphoria is an ever jumping and escalating issue to the individual who experiences it