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I believe the gender movement is heavily linked to capitalism, and part of the reason it's being pushed so hard in the US in particular is because of our ultra capitalist system. It's making thousands of people dependent on big pharma companies for the rest of their lives, and TiMs also boost capitalism by buying unnecessary products to aid their transition.

I also believe capitalism has exploited women in other ways throughout its history, including forcing them into unpaid home labour, and harming lesbians by propping up the ideal of the nuclear heterosexual family. Capitalists also have an incentive in causing women to be insecure about their bodies, so they can make us spend unnecessarily on things like makeup, razors, and cosmetic surgery. If I have my history right, the entire thing about a lack of body hair being valued in women was created by businesses to sell razors to women.

Thus, I believe, if implemented correctly, socialism could be a benefit to women, and would have less of a place for gender ideology.

I believe the gender movement is heavily linked to capitalism, and part of the reason it's being pushed so hard in the US in particular is because of our ultra capitalist system. It's making thousands of people dependent on big pharma companies for the rest of their lives, and TiMs also boost capitalism by buying unnecessary products to aid their transition. I also believe capitalism has exploited women in other ways throughout its history, including forcing them into unpaid home labour, and harming lesbians by propping up the ideal of the nuclear heterosexual family. Capitalists also have an incentive in causing women to be insecure about their bodies, so they can make us spend unnecessarily on things like makeup, razors, and cosmetic surgery. If I have my history right, the entire thing about a lack of body hair being valued in women was created by businesses to sell razors to women. Thus, I believe, if implemented correctly, socialism could be a benefit to women, and would have less of a place for gender ideology.

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[–] Porange 51 points Edited

As someone from a former communist country, it's absolutely dumb and anyone living in the west wishing for communism has absolutely no idea what they are talking about. Also every single gender special TRA has been a commie or socialist, so it's definitely not linked to capitalism. Women have been marginalized in every single economic system to date. The only decent(ish) thing that came from the Soviet Union was free childcare but that comes at the cost of getting your kids pumped full of propaganda and ideology at a young age. Imagine the only childcare options being heavily TRA and unquestionably for the only party in the country. It's already starting to be this way in the US so definitely a big no thanks.

Contrary to popular western belief, communism and socialism does not result in people's needs met and people just getting free stuff left and right. It means everyone gets the same trash quality thing and working non stop. You can't get extra nice things if you work harder, only if you are part of a corrupt system.

My whole family and countless others worked so hard to get to the US and always praise it and the opportunity it provides. Sadly the US is far from what it was and the new generation is no longer better off than the older one, but it's far better than in communism.

I really encourage anyone who is into this ideology to just seek a wide variety of primary sources and experiences from people who actually lived in communism and different regimes. Learn the reality of what it is, and then decide if you want to pursue that.

EDIT: I also wanted to add that I also laugh at conservatives who think every public good is evil communism or socialism. I am very pro things such as social security, WIC, etc (but never UBI). You would not have anything like that kind of support for people who need it in a truly communist country.

My family is from a Balkan country that survived the Iron Curtain- thank you for this sensible reply.

I feel that the TRA movement is way more influenced by socialism/communism (or at least what they perceive it as) and imo, corporations have just adopted the rhetoric of socialism (DEI is a good example) in order to sell to more left leaning millennials, zoomers, and the TRAs who seem to love spouting it off. It’s a really weird blend of hyper individualism leading into crazy groupthink.

I can’t wait to read books about this shit in twenty years.

[–] BiologyIsReal 15 points Edited

Corporations support transgenderism because transgenderism is a capitalist endeavour which was born in capitalist countries. There are even literal billionaries pushing this. TRA coudn't spread this much if there no were powerfull rich people behind all this.

Thank you for writing this. Not so we can debate capitalism versus socialism/communism, but so we can understand that we still don’t have a good working economic system and don’t yet have control of our material lives as a planet and a species.

To speak to your main point, I’ve known several people over the years who immigrated from Eastern block countries and not one of them had anything good to say about living under communism. As you say, everyone gets the same piece of shit pie with no possibility of working for something better. It’s demoralizing.

Tras like to say they're socialists but all that actually means to most of them is free hormones and a bunch of thrillingly worded catchphrases.

I grew up with soft socialism and I like it.

What is soft socialism? In my country we call what we have social market economy, so basically social capitalism, as in capitalism with a social safety net

What i really appreciate is the concept of Betriebsrat, a council of workers in a company that sees that the workers are protected from the company essentially. For example they have to sign every time the company wants to fire someone and can veto.

I guess, subsidized (free when I was a child) healthcare, and government-owned infrastructure so things like public transport, roads, water weren't privately owned. But there was still plenty of private business etc.

Thank you for your comment. One need only consider the hundreds of thousands of people who wish to emigrate to the United States to understand that they are coming here for our two greatest systems, capitalism and democracy. It's easy to knock these things when you have never been deprived of them. We're not perfect, but I truly believe we're the best there is.

You mean the system the system that they maintein with their astronomical military budget, the over 700 oversea military bases, the enless wars, including proxy wars, the "regime changes" and undemocratic institutions like the ONU and the FMI who favour Western countries? If the US is so democratic why does keep treating Latin America as their backyard (or "forward yard" as Biden says? and keep pushing neoliberal pro-market and pro-corporate policies on us who only serve to empoverish our countries, except rich people who are always sucking the foots of their American / Western overlords?

Capitalism and representative democracy can be found everywhere in the world, including developing countries and 3d world countries. What everyone searches for by immigrating to US or Europe is reliant social systems and personal rights who have been won by centuries of workers figthing for them. This history is totally forgotten in USA and rarely admited in Europe, but its the true. It isn't representative democracy immigrants travel for...

Thank you for actually considering my perspective! You would not believe the amount of western communists who refuse to listen to anyone who actually experienced it or came from a post communist country.

I also recommend looking up Lily Tang Williams. She grew up in Mao's Cultural Revolution and I believe her perspective is so important.

I took a course in college called "The cultural revolution in China." It's horrible what was done to the Chinese.

I don't know how you rank as far as capitalism is concerned, but the USA is absolutely not the best when it comes to democracy. Apparently it doesn't even make the top 10, and it has been labelled a flawed democracy for several years now.

Honestly I’d hesitate to even call the US a democracy at all, it’s more like a pseudo-democratic soft oligarchy with undertones of feudalism.

I was curious about this so I looked it up and they're spot on with the criticisms

The United States scored 7.92 in 2020 and again landed in the "flawed democracy" category, where it has resided since falling from "full democracy" in 2016. Intolerance of COVID-19 restrictions, distrust in the government, bipartisan gridlock, and especially the increasing ideological polarization between democrats and republicans are all cited as contributors to the lower score.

It amazed me when I found out loads of Americans CANNOT vote because of weird political machinations that make it too hard for them. All those 80s.movies about how it was the greatest democracy etc lied!!!

Yep, no one has been able to implement socialism/communism correctly because the ideology is flawed and it's impossible to get it right. While capitalism has led to actually improved material conditions for people and free trade has lifted billions out of abject poverty

"Correct" capitalism would mean there is not a monopoly on the market, a thing that have NEVER, NEVER been achieved. Why are the millions of workers death because of capitalist greed (both in laboral accidents or economic wars) never been acknowledged as an human right violation? IF they were they would surpass for sure deads caused by socialist regims. I want to make it clear that I am not a comunist by any means, but what is true is true.

Yeah, socialism has never killed anyone /S.

Free market economies have mostly free markets. I don't know why you think that capitalist countries only have monopolies when it's obvious that's not true. And free market countries actually recognize things like workers' rights and workplace safety regulations. Human life means much less in socialist countries.

If you'd rather live in Cuba or North Korea, then go ahead. I'd say people in free market countries have a much better quality of life.

[–] drinkwater 6 points Edited

Yep. They read the literature and think they know something. They don't.

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Marxism has the best, most insightful analysis of the harms of capitalism. It also has the very worst solutions.

I’m a socialist, as in I believe the workers should own the means of production and the economy should be planned instead of led by the “invisible hand” or whatever. But I’m pretty flexible. I’m in favor of things like UBI, worker co-ops, universal health care, etc. I would even support a mixed economy where you have for instance food and healthcare co-ops that don’t generate a profit but other things can be sold for profit. My main concern with capitalism is that everything is for profit and some things just should not be profited upon. That’s how we end up with billionaires making even more money during the pandemic while small/local businesses failed. I agree with you, I see gender ideology as a result of our current mode of capitalism, specifically our for-profit medical industry, and the hyperindividualism that is pushed on us in order to justify it. But I also agree that capitalism didn’t cause all of our problems so I’m skeptical about how beneficial socialism could be for women if we’re still living in a male dominated society.

And who pays the doctors and nurses in your free health care system? I am a physician, by the time my student loans were totaled after 4 years of medical school the grand total was a $196,000. 25 years later I am still paying that back. My entire twenties were spent in college, medical school and residency training. I didn't have a job untiI I was 30 years old. Also had 0 retirement savings and am way behind my peers in terms of net worth. I am in primary care so I am amongst the lowest paid of doctors. For the last quarter century I have worked forty+ hour weeks taking care of all sorts of patients including the indigent, the disabled and the incarcerated. Sorry to get my hackles up, but I just have to roll my eyes and laugh when someone says health care should be "free."

I didn’t say healthcare should be “free”. I said I support universal healthcare. As in, it’s free at the point of access but it’s paid for with taxes. Who pays the doctors and nurses in other countries that have universal healthcare? Canada for instance. I don’t get why people act like universal healthcare in the US (assuming that’s where you’re from) is some big impossibility when plenty of other countries do it.

The doctors and nurses in those other countries are overworked and underpaid and miserable. You want a bunch of bureaucrats running the health care system, telling everyone how to practice medicine and determining what they get paid? Those doctors leave and go into private systems whenever they can. Meanwhile the patients wait months or years for care because the government is running the system.

I am a socialist, I believe all the vital services should be controlled by government, housing, health system, utilites, public transport, basically run for the people so that they can have a good life and never be destroyed utterly by poverty.

but there should be capitalism in the luxuries to give a wide choice for fashion, tech and so on.

most countries have an element of socialism, if they didn't what the hell are you paying taxes for? things like fire service, police, army are socialist systems

This is pretty much my own stance. Socialism for all necessities, regulated capitalism for luxuries. There should also be laws ensuring the separation of big business from government, including bans on lobbying.

I would argue that businesses should never be allowed to become big. The reasons why are all around us in the US.

[–] ProxyMusic 7 points Edited

I believe all the vital services should be controlled by government, housing, health system, utilites, public transport, basically run for the people so that they can have a good life and never be destroyed utterly by poverty.

But in countries where all the vital services have been controlled by the government - the USSR, GDR, the various Eastern Bloc or Iron Curtain nations, Romania, Communist China, Communist Cuba, Khmer Rouge Cambodia, Venezuela, today's North Korea - the majority of the people didn't end up having a good life and many still had their lives utterly destroyed by poverty. In those places, people had their lives utterly destroyed by other things too that were cooked up by the corrupt, power-hungry, often evil and unhinged men running socialist and communist governments (wars, famines, food shortages, genocides like the Holodomor and the Cambodian killing fields, constant spying on the citizenry, frequent arrests and interrogations, gulags, re-educaiton camps, torture, constant hardship and upheaval brought about by misguided enterprises like Five Year Plans, Lysenkoism, the Stalinist purges, the Chinese Cultural Revolution, catastrophes such as the Chernobyl nuclear disaster). On top of that, there's the everyday inefficiency, corruption, bribery and cut-throat dealings.

Used to be in some communist European Eastern bloc countries, just buying a train ticket could be an all-day enterprise. Of course the process varied from country to country. But in one Eastern bloc country I visited at around the time the Soviet bloc was beginning to crumble, you first had to wait in a long line to show your passport and papers to government authorities in order to get a slip giving you permission to buy a train ticket on the government-run train system. Then you waited in another long line to make a request to purchase a train ticket to your particular destination and get a chit stamped with the name of that place. Then with that chit in hand you waited in another line to request and pay for the ticket to that place and get a receipt showing you'd paid. Then you waited in another line to give the receipt to a clerk who would give you a chit with a number on it like in a bakery - and after you waited a while longer, your number would finally be called and you'd get your train ticket.

And that's just a tale of time-wasting inconvenience. Which was nothing compared to the horrors and abject miseries that the residents of many communist and socialist countries went through on a regular basis.

There's a world of difference between the pie-in-the-sky utopias promised and envisioned by certain socioeconomic theories and the realities that ensue when flawed human beings, men mostly, attempt to put those seemingly high-minded theories into action.

But in countries where all the vital services have been controlled by the government - the USSR, GDR, the various Eastern Bloc or Iron Curtain nations, Romania, Communist China, Communist Cuba, Khmer Rouge Cambodia, Venezuela, today's North Korea

Thats communist countries you've just listed and I'd say they did have a good life depending on the country, China needs to be ignored they are a law unto themselves as to what parts of life are communist and which are capitalist, property in china is certainly capitalist. Cuba did very well with their system considering the crippling sanctions placed on them by the USA, they had an NHS system that extended further then the UKs as it included 24 hour dentistry, the people got rations and then could work and earn to top that up and the people were housed, a relative went there about 30 years ago and came back with nothing but praise for how well the country was looking after the people under such circumstances. as for Russia again the people were looked after, the tower blocks may look grim but I can not insult a system that kept people alive, in my country the UK people freeze to death inn their homes because they can't afford to heat them or die on the streets in winter, yet Russia keeps their people alive in winters that regularly hit -57c proving its a wilful disdain for the people of those in power, our housing is crap, down there with japan in terms of lack of insulation.

as I said most countries have an element of socialism, I was raised in social housing it was great compared to the junk in the private sector, the trains were better under British rail as they were affordable so my mother could take us out for day trips to the seaside, that ended with privatisation, the NHS was better before they started ripping services off of it and selling them off to the private sector as NHS service providers. and of course further education was better before they pushed it out of reach of the poor, my mother would never have been able to get a degree as a mother today, that is not progress, keeping the lights off because you fear the next electric bill because the private sector pricing is out of control is not progress, having trains that cost more then taking a flight half way around the world is not progress.

Not sure what the Khmer Rouge and north korea has to do with anything maybe we should just throw every dictatorship in as somehow a demonstration that a political system doesn't work, if so then just counting all the dictatorships in Africa alone would be proof that capitalism doesn't work wouldn't it?

[–] Hera 14 points

Any extreme regime is garbage. Communism fucking sucks. Capitalism also fucking sucks.

As long as humans are both a social species capable of empathy and a species that understands the concept of trade, elements of socialism and capitalism will both continue to exist in our way of life. personally I'm a fan of a mixed economy all the way. Vital things should have a govt, not-for-profit option available to all, and luxury things should run on capitalism.

I’ve always supported a mixed economy. There are some industries that should never be privatized, such as prison services. Some industries do well with a combination of private and public enterprise. And, especially in the case of luxury good, sometimes private industry does just fine. I think the opportunity to profit has driven innovation. I don’t support communism at all because I consider democracy to be essential. I’m not anti-socialism, but not pro-socialism either.

The way I put it is I support a mix of soft socialism for infrastructure and social provision, and controlled capitalism for industry. I think that healthcare should be free at the point of access, and we should all expect a roof over out head and not to starve on the street. Industry shouldn't have the right to exploit its workers or pollute the environment.

Socialism, sure. Communism, NO. I just finished the Gulag Archipelago and Masha Gessen's the Future is History and am reading (audiobook tho) Anne Applebaum's Iron Curtain about the non-Russian eastern European countries post WWII. I also recently finished "First They Killed My Father" about Cambodia's revolution. I am reading these types of books because the gender stuff reminds me of other authoritarian or totalitarian regimes in history, especially the compelled language, the newspeak, the vitriol towards dissenters, the lies and absurdity etc. The parallels are quite scary.

All of the regimes that have tried communism have failed, feature arbitrary arrest, torture and detention, use terror to control people and the people do not live in some sort of utopian society where everybody's needs are met.

I do believe that capitalism incentivizes innovation and motivates people, but do believe in some redistribution of wealth and social safety nets (UBI, healthcare, low cost childcare and education).

I haven't gotten around to it yet, but I've also wanted to start reading books like that, including Hannah Arendt's work, because I'd like to see how authoritarianism unfolds and what it actually looks like. This is partly to counter the left's bleating about "fascism" when really they've been made uncomfortable by ideas/beliefs they don't like.

Thanks for the implicit recommendations. I'll be sure to add them to my reading list.

Yeah, I sort of feel like there is a shift happening now, but I'm not sure, which is how it sort of happens, incremental changes that you can brush off until you can't. One of the best I've read recently, although not about communism, is "All But My Life", an autobiography by a Jewish woman who survived the holocaust which I think should be required reading in schools. Was amazed that I didn't know about it. It was a free audible selection, so I gave it a try and found it remarkable.

I just finished the Gulag Archipelago

That was such a difficult read. Not for the language itself, just the content was very distressing. I had to read it in little chunks and put something friendly in my mind between.

Yes. Very disturbing. I don't understand how and why. I only read the abridged version, not the full 4 volumes, and my aversion to some of the descriptions, especially about torture and the suffering in the gulags has me undecided about the full series.

Gulag Archipelago changed a lot of my friends’ minds about communism in college. My grandfather made me read it as a teenager and it is powerful as hell.

Completely agree on the points of your post- though you’ve said it way more eloquently than I could.

Should be required reading. Also "All but My Life", Gerda Weissman Klein's autobiographical recounting of her experiences in the Holocaust. The thing that ruins communism is human nature. It involves tearing down the people at the top and then replacing them with other people who've done nothing except comply with supposed communist ideology. You still have elites, you're just not allowed to say so or you might be executed. This is what the gender/woke stuff seems to be to me. They want to tear down those at the top and replace them with themselves based on supposed oppression bc of race or "gender identity".

[–] Jellyfishes 15 points Edited

Socialism will never work and every time people try, it ends in a totalitarian dictatorship. The way people celebrate communism (including Che Guevara, Maduro, Castro) without society and mainstream media much batting an eye to it is absolutely disturbing. I can't accept people complaining about fascism when they defend such things.

Most communist men are psychos who want a revolution just so they have an opportunity to commit violence and rape women, and the socialism leaves their body when they talk about prostitution. Under these conditions, women just become another resource to be shared. If communism is implemented, it's this kind of men who will end up as the rulers.

Capitalism does suck, but communism is not any better. And many anti-capitalist people just blame everything on it, acting like all bad things will go away if we move to socialism. How many times I've read bs like "capitalism invented misogyny". It's time to seek another alternative.

Edit: and by the way, Cuba supports surrogacy and gender ideology. The same country whose doctors working in Brazil couldn't receive their payment directly, the money was first sent to their government and then a small share sent back. I've never seen a single socialist who criticized these things. So couple communism's failures with lack (or censorship) of criticism, and it's a recipe for disaster. In most capitalistic countries people are allowed to complain about the government and even the big media does it.

Remember that most times a nation attempted to democratically implement socialism, the US couped the government and replaced it with a fascist dictatorship.

How do you explain Cuba, Venezuela and North Korea? Why are they dictatorships and most people don't care about the totalitarianism in the first 2?

You seem to use the terms socialism and communism interchangeably, but they are not the same thing. Most of the problems you list are problems with communism, not socialism.

Most people when they say "socialism" mean a tax-heavy, generous welfare state society like Denmark. Socialism isn't much different from communism.

Socialism:

Any of various theories or systems of social organization in which the means of producing and distributing goods is owned collectively or by a centralized government that often plans and controls the economy.

The stage in Marxist-Leninist theory intermediate between capitalism and communism, in which the means of production are collectively owned but a completely classless society has not yet been achieved.

Communism:

A theoretical economic system characterized by the collective ownership of property and by the organization of labor for the common advantage of all members.

A system of government in which the state plans and controls the economy and a single, often authoritarian party holds power, claiming to make progress toward a higher social order in which all goods are equally shared by the people.

The Marxist-Leninist doctrine advocating revolution to overthrow the capitalist system and establish a dictatorship of the proletariat that will eventually evolve into a perfectly egalitarian and communal society.

There's virtually no difference. Scandinavian "socialist" states have capitalistic economies.

The term socialism being used wrong often does not suddenly make the actual concept more similar to communism than it originally was. They are similar like liberal and radical feminism are similar.

"There's virtually no difference" except that there are multiple. One of which has been pointed out repeatedly in the comments: socialism can co-exist to some extent with capitalism. Communism cannot. Freedom of religion and democracy exist under socialism, not under communism.

Perhaps you find those differences negligible, but I don't. And I haven't even listed every difference.

May I ask what country you're from? I'm curious, as this conflation seems to happen more often among US Americans. I haven't seen it as much among people in my own country, probably because socialists and communists have their own distinct political parties here.

The single most important factor in a nation's quality of life for women is the level of corruption in the government. Every government has some corruption, but the countries with the lowest rates of corruption have the best quality of life and higher sex equality. The sad thing is once corruption is SOP it's near impossible to get rid of. Case in point: The high levels of corruption in ex-Soviet states being carried over from the baked-in corruption of the USSR. Capitalism isn't to blame for the decrease in the US's quality of life, it's the increase in government corruption.

[–] vulvapeople 12 points Edited

Most people who claim to want socialism/communism (under political theory, there's virtually no difference, Norway/Sweden/Denmark are not socialist) would really hate the results. How it works in practice is that the need for everyone to be in this together means that many forms of difference (racial, ethnic, cultural, sexual) are suppressed as much as possible.

There have been many cases in communist countries where minorities are forcibly integrated into the larger culture so they can become efficient workers. This often happens under capitalism simply due to market forces, but many capitalistic countries still have a concept of minority rights. I'm not sure I'm aware of any communist country that does or had that concept or at least made any real attempt at guaranteeing it. It figures that, as Cuba is becoming more capitalistic, it has relaxed its discrimination against gays and is now embracing gender theory.

Communist theory is very naive about what the larger share of people think of minorities and how minority rights would be very difficult to protect under the "dictatorship of the proletariat". Humans are fundamentally tribalistic and dislike difference.

I fear that some form of collectivism is inevitable due to how badly humans are trashing the environment, the path there will be very ugly, and the result will also be ugly.

I live in a socialist country.

Since our taxes are very high, people assume that these taxes indeed go to helping society. So we don't really need to give to charity or help a neighbour or anything like that. The state is supposed to take care of that, so the citizens don't have to care. Our overall compassion stat is low.

On paper, we claim that we are helping the poor and those in general need. We can give the middle classes the illusion that this works, because the middle classes may seldom or never have to ask the state for help.

In reality, getting help can be very difficult, and people are often shuffled from one instance to the next. People with children may not be able to ask for help, since the state can and has removed children based solely on social worker bias. Women with children are told to get evicted from their apartments so that they can receive aid.

Since the middle classes don't think things can get that bad, they tend to see anyone with complaints about the system as crazy, unhinged, and ungrateful. Being politically active within socialist parties here is a thing people do for the sake of tradition and being fashionable, they don't really care about how the lower classes are being treated.

We do have better sex equality here. We also don't teach girls basic safety like 'stay in groups' or 'don't go through the park wearing a tiny dress', because the trust in the state is so high. People are shamed for teaching girls safety tips, because it's assumed that rapists will be caught by the police, and that that is the end of it.

Feminism over here are more like social clubs for middle-class women. Lower-class women are looked down on and derided as racist, transphobic, etc. These feminist clubs have a lot of influence. I'd be very happy if I could find some groups that genuinely were interested in making things better for the poorest women.

I don't know enough about politics to be able to say if any other system is better or worse, nor do I care. I am tired of seeing people worship socialism and communism though, and I'd be just as tired of conservatism and nationalism if people were championing that as brainlessly in public.

Not to say that OP is brainless, OP makes some interesting points and seems to know what she's talking about. I just wanted to share my perspective as someone who lives in a socialist country with good PR.

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