Discussion Friend believes in cis-privilege

Ask her to define 'cis-privilege' and what it looks like for women.

The only response I've ever gotten to this is along the lines of 'being recognized as your correct gender'. And what does being recognized as a woman get women, particularly in places like Afghanistan, China, South Korea, or deep red states in the US these days?

You cannot be privileged on an axis of oppression.

OP, are you familiar with the works and/or words of prominent, much-feted-in-woke-circles, trans-identifying males Andrea Long Chu, Grace Lavery, Jacob Tobias, and Nina Arsenault? When I started REALLY questioning the trans-gender identity movement, I vowed to first familiarize myself with the ideas and arguments of trans people, and, at the time, these four men mimicking the opposite sex were quite popular.

And, what I found...horrified me. These men didn't "transition" because they admired women’s character or achievements, they "transitioned" because of autogynephila, cissy porn, and forced feminization...the idea of presenting/ being seen as a woman aroused them sexually; the idea of being sexually objectified by other men thrilled them; the idea of being verbally and even physically abused by other sexist men turned them on.

And, they were completely open about these ideas...they published books referencing these notions, they tweeted about them, they created videos about them.

You might introduce your friend to the works of some of these "downtrodden" trans-identifying male celebrities...ask her what role "cis privilege" played in their autogynephilia and addiction to cissy porn.

You might start with Andrea Long Chu's "Females"...it's a short read, but really dives into Long Chu's belief that femaleness is a vacuous hole needing to be filled by male sexual desire, and is best represented by "blank, blank eyes, an open mouth, and, an expectant asshole."

Good luck to you and your friend..first encountering the idea of autogynephilia and addiction to cissy porn in males is...painful.

Oh, and once she's read "Females," you might then get her a subscription to REDUXX.COM.

I defy any woman's belief in "Cis privilege" to withstand engaging with even 10-15 articles on REDUXX.COM

In terms of the west, we're at one of the lowest points of women's rights in recent years, so for women to still be this ignorant is such lunacy.

Did she actually say whether she would like to share a prison cell with a bepenised individual? Isn't that what it comes down to?

Have you asked her what cis-privilege she thinks women in Afghanistan have?

Lol- cis privilege for a woman today? That’s hilarious. So femicide, DV, male violence, rape is nothing? And having males rob women of their safety and privacy is privilege? Males being recognized for women’s sports, on IWD, and throughout women’s history month is privilege? Being silenced by men at let women speak events is privilege? Women being housed with male rapists in women’s prisons is privilege? Maybe said friend should look up the definition of privilege.

Thank you for the ugh toward "folks." I always instantly know when I see that word now that someone is trying to pull a snow job.

Sadly, nothing. The best you can do is gentle Socratic questioning.

"Why can't she see what's obvious?" - this is like asking why a pilot can't see through fog. TWAW is a very convenient smokescreen.

When I was a handmaiden, I used to think that a man wouldn't have to pretend to be trans to walk into a bathroom and assault someone, he'd just do it. Which is a talking point if you're not aware of the insane amount of AGPs who do this, and just assume TIMs are all harmless confused men with "gender dysphoria" who just want to "live their lives. And some TIMs really don't have any intention of hurting people - they really are just confused. But of course you can't tell which is which.

From the POV of someone who supports this, your chances of meeting a TIM in a women's bathroom are tiny, so what do you have to worry about?

They really have no wider awareness of this. Like Hollyhock said, she is probably privileged enough in life not to have given much thought to what some men do for sexual satisfaction.

The "best" way might be bringing up just what lengths men will go to to get their rocks off... but in a very subtle way.

I'm not interested in converting anyone. Religious fanatics are almost impossible to get through to. In their own time. Cis is a stupid expression. These people just want to be special by denying material reality.

If she is upper middle class with a good job and also white, she does have a certain kind of privilege, one that will likely keep her from being incarcerated. So, she can turn up her nose at all the poor, disadvantaged women who end up in prison and have no expensive lawyer they can use to get them lighter sentences...those women are clearly not her concern.

We have cis-privilege the same way we have non-schizophrenic-privilege or non-diabetic-privilege.

Read this list with her and pick it apart. Point out the fallacies, and how she, as a woman, actually is affected by a lot of these. Or, even if the item is true in her experience, ask if she truly agrees that this thing is a matter of privilege, or whether it couldn't ever affect other "cis" people.

ETA: There are many such ridiculous lists on the internet about "cis privilege", if you want to find a shorter one or something.

https://www.itspronouncedmetrosexual.com/2011/11/list-of-cisgender-privileges/

1. You can use public restrooms without fear of verbal abuse, physical intimidation, or arrest.
2. You can use public facilities such as gym locker rooms and store changing rooms without stares, fear, or anxiety.
3. Strangers don’t assume they can ask you what your genitals look like and how you have sex.
4. Your validity as a man/woman/human is not based on how much surgery you’ve had or how well you “pass” as non-transgender.
5. You can walk through the world and generally blend in, not being constantly stared or gawked at, whispered about, pointed at, or laughed at because of your gender expression.
6. You can access gender-exclusive spaces (e.g., a space or activity for women), and not be excluded due to your trans status.
7. Strangers call you by the name you provide and don’t ask what your “real name” (birth name) is and then assume that they have a right to call you by that name.
8. You can reasonably assume that your ability to acquire a job, rent an apartment, or secure a loan will not be denied on the basis of your gender identity/expression.
9. You can flirt, engage in courtship, or form a relationship and not fear that your biological status may be cause for rejection or attack, nor will it cause your partner to question their sexual orientation.
10. If you end up in the emergency room, you do not have to worry that your gender will keep you from receiving appropriate treatment or that all of your medical issues will be seen as a result of your gender.
11. Your identity was not formally (until 2013) considered a mental pathology (“gender identity disorder” in the DSM IV) by the psychological and medical establishments, and still pathologized by the public.
12. You don’t need to worry about being placed in a sex-segregated detention center, holding facility, jail, or prison that is incongruent with your identity.
13. You don’t have to worry ab out being profiled on the street as a sex worker because of your gender expression.
14. You are not required to undergo an extensive psychological evaluation in order to receive basic medical care.
15. You do not have to defend your right to be a part of “queer” (or the queer community), and gays and lesbians will not try to exclude you from “their” equal rights movement because of your gender identity (or any equality movement, including feminist rights).
16. If you are murdered (or have any crime committed against you), your gender expression will not be used as a justification for your murder (“gay panic”), nor as a reason to coddle the perpetrators.
17. You can easily find role models and mentors to emulate who share your identity.
18. Hollywood accurately depicts people of your gender in films and television, without tokenizing your identity as the focus of a dramatic storyline or the punchline of a joke.
19. You can assume that everyone you encounter will understand your identity and will not think you’re confused, misled, or hell-bound when you reveal it to them.
20. You can purchase clothes that match your gender identity without being refused service, mocked by staff, or questioned about your genitals.
21. You can purchase shoes that fit your gender expression without having to order them in special sizes or asking someone to custom-make them.
22. No stranger checking your identification or driver’s license will ever insult or glare at you because your name or sex does not match the sex they believed you to be based on your gender expression.
23. You can reasonably assume that you will not be denied services at a hospital, bank, or other institution because the staff does not believe the gender marker on your ID card to match your gender identity.
24. Your gender is an option on a form.
25. You can tick a box on a form without someone disagreeing and telling you not to lie.
26. You don’t have to fear interactions with police officers due to your gender identity.
27. You can go places with friends on a whim knowing there will be bathrooms there you can use.
28. You don’t have to convince your parents of your true gender and/or have to earn your parents’ and siblings’ love and respect all over again because of your gender identity.
29. You don’t have to remind your extended family over and over to use proper gender pronouns (e.g., after transitioning).
30. You don’t have to deal with old photographs that do not reflect who you truly are.
31. If you’re dating someone, you know they aren’t just looking to satisfy a curiosity or kink pertaining to your gender identity (e.g., the “novelty” of having sex with a trans person).
32. You can pretend that anatomy and gender are irrevocably entwined when having the “boy parts and girl parts” talk with children, instead of having to explain the actual complexity of the issue.