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RantNo, it's not "toxic on both sides."
Posted March 23, 2024 by littleowl12 in GenderCritical

https://twitter.com/roseveniceallan/status/1771483321333121322

I'm glad someone else said it. So many people, especially men, try to claim that "both sides are toxic" in order to be "fair" or "nuanced."

Or simply because they can't resist making a dig at feminism. Conservatives have vilified feminists as baby eating witches for decades and they need some notion of that to cling to, rather than admit they've always been full of shit.

Liberals, who have always felt feminists were problemaaaatic for being against porn, prostitution, surrogacy, religion, transgenderism, misogyny from marginalized men, also want to believe that we are "just as bad."

But no, sorry. We are not the ones who nail dead rats to rape shelters. We are not the ones who physically attack the elderly. We don't bang cymbals in the faces of police horses. We don't try to block medical conferences, where honest professionals are taking a close look at scientific evidence. We don't set shit on fire. We don't flash our genitals at children in female-only spaces.

TRAs do all that crap.

Journalists know which side to be afraid of when it comes to discussion about trans ideology.

It's hard for me to have patience with people who claim that both sides are toxic. Feminists have been actually way more gracious than we should be, considering what TRAs have done to society. It's never gotten beyond well-deserved snark.

38 comments

Re-enacterfMarch 23, 2024

When people say "it's toxic on both sides" what I hear is "I don't like women over 30".

NoNameMarch 23, 2024

If women could assemble and speak without the TRAs there wouldn't be any police presence at all. It's just men bullying, intimidating and attacking women. Women aren't doing that to men. Women are simply stating they want men out of their spaces. That the "trans child" phenomenon is not real.

Honestly the piece of garbage who was banging the cymbals in front of the horse should have been arrested.

MardyMcMareMarch 23, 2024(Edited March 23, 2024)

Yes, a crime of animal abuse, much more than the fella who got charged with calling a police horse “gay”.

EDIT: Ah, OK, arrested, not charged. But still!

NoNameMarch 23, 2024

Well it stands to reason that a person that is fine with abusing women is probably also fine with abusing animals.

I often wonder why that link is not made.

You might not be American so you may not get the context here and I am going off on a tangent.

However, I wonder if all those men (including Joe Biden) told Anita Hill at the Clarence Thomas confirmation hearings that she was lying, then went on to confirm him anyway ever made the connection that a man who was willing to sexually harass a woman wasn't going to be any good for the nation either?

A man that will casually sexually harass a woman is also the sort of man who will take enormous bribes to screw over the whole nation.

I wonder why the link is never made that a man who will sexually harass a woman or abuse a woman isn't any good for men either.

Committing_TerveryMarch 23, 2024

All Joe Biden & others care about is maintaining the status quo. They want to uphold patriarchal values; they don’t give two shits about women.

vulvapeopleMarch 23, 2024

Thomas was very inexperienced for the position when he was nominated. And, of course, he was a Republican who was against pretty much everything in the Democratic platform. Biden et al had many reasons not to vote to confirm, but they did it anyway.

LadylucyMarch 23, 2024(Edited March 23, 2024)

Back then, most Justices were voted in with 96-100 votes. RBG, a very liberal woman, received 97 votes. Even if Republicans didn’t like her positions, she was still qualified for the bench. Things weren’t as partisan back then. I wasn’t happy about the votes for Thomas, but women still had a long way to go in a sexist Congress. Biden, however, was instrumental in passing the Violence Against Women Act.

AltheaMarch 23, 2024

I know, seriously. "Both sides need to stop being so extremist" - it's not extremist to think putting rapists in women's prisons is dangerous, FFS.

DoomedSibylMarch 23, 2024

Not just in prisons either. Men in women’s intimate spaces is going to scare them. Women tend to placate and propitiate when they or their children are threatened. I know it’s been said before but this is an assault on all women and in what little safety and freedom women have gained.

RusticTroglodytePubebeard KermitMarch 24, 2024

Exactly! The "extremist" position is calling men women and women men.

DeeMarch 24, 2024

"It is toxic on both sides" cannot ever begin to capture the discourse.

As with so many other words young people like to use, "toxic" has become a catch-all phrase that seems to mean anything from "people say stuff I don't agree with" to "people actively call for violence." This renders the word meaningless in this context. Say more descriptive things. Describe what is actually happening.

There are no "both sides." There are actually many. They include different flavors of TRAs, some of which believe in innate gender identities and some who don't, and think "gender" is a choice and performative. They include right-wing populists, concerned parents who aren't at all ideologically motivated, homosexuals and especially lesbians who have seen their spaces destroyed, and radical feminists on the "TERF" side. They include scientists. They include people who would prefer to see women confined to the kitchen sink and radical feminists.

The gender identity crowd is the most obviously violent out of these, but I cannot say that some on the anti-gender side would not be, if given the chance. The Matt Walsh crowd has more in common with the gender identity crowd than they might like to see. There is more than just us and them in this debate, and yes, there are people with frightening visions of the world on the "anti-trans" side too, and they are not on our side, the side of women. I'm afraid they'll become the dominant strain when this is all over.

hellamomzillaMarch 23, 2024(Edited March 23, 2024)

Well said.

I would add that the critical side also simply says, “Leave kids alone and let their healthy bodies alone.” This used to be considered the gold standard — raising healthy children. Now you’re only a good parent if you agree to cancer drugs and wrong sex hormones and massive cosmetic surgery, all in the oxymoronic name of “authenticity.”

DurableBookMarch 23, 2024(Edited March 23, 2024)

I had a reddit account banned because I said that I think children who express hatred of their bodies or their gender should be given comfort and helped to accept who they are, rather than being told that they should change themselves or their bodies in order to be happy. I was informed this is "conversion therapy rhetoric."

Committing_TerveryMarch 23, 2024

I hate how they’ve co-opted that language. It’s the opposite of conversion therapy; it helps someone to be comfortable with who they are instead of trying to convert their body into something different.

operaghostMarch 23, 2024

It's because too many people were realizing that "medical transition" and "conversion therapy" are literal synonyms. Conversion and transition are synonyms. Medical and therapy are synonymous.

neonbanditMarch 23, 2024

Everything they say is double speak.

RusticTroglodytePubebeard KermitMarch 24, 2024

It is so absurd and honestly shocking to me that so many ppl think it's just a-OK to tell a little kid they are so fundamentally flawed that they have to change themselves at all costs.

Only a fucking moron would think that stance is in any way healthy or helpful to an insecure child

DurableBookMarch 24, 2024

They will be like, no no see the kid came to ME saying they hate their body! I was just AFFIRMING them!

So when your daughter comes to you saying she's fat and she hates herself, you plan to tell her that she is right to feel that way and not to worry because you can get her lipo and diet pills until she is thin, right?

PhryneAncient AdjacentMarch 23, 2024

To be honest though, we have um embroidered at them.

pennygadgetMarch 24, 2024

"Its toxic on both sides" has the same energy as "Brian Laundrie was wrong to kill Gabby Petito. But their relationship was equally abusive because she scratched his face one time after he punched her"

shewolfoffrance🦕March 23, 2024

We don't bang cymbals in the faces of police horses.

That poor horse must have had exceptionally good training. I hope it got an apple at the end of its shift.

And, yes! I'm sick of self-declared moderates calling on us to compromise with malevolent lunatics.

Lipsy•____•March 23, 2024

Especially when TRAs' own training materials tell them NOT to compromise (see talking point 11 on page 21).

RuneOwlMarch 24, 2024

I don’t think it’s a coincidence that abusers like to claim that their victims are equally or at least partially culpable for a “toxic relationship”. If they can’t succeed at a full-on DARVO to make themselves look like the victim, they’ll settle for minimizing their accountability with “we’re both guilty”.

It’s fucked up, and men have been doing it to women for ages on both a small and large scale.

Women1stMarch 23, 2024

Shoot, one post up is about TRAs trying to infiltrate a scientific discussion on sex and gender. They threw smoke bombs. But, yeah, feminists are mean too:

RusticTroglodytePubebeard KermitMarch 24, 2024(Edited March 24, 2024)

We say "mean" words that hurt their precious feelings. They threaten to rape and murder us; they assault us. See??! BOTH sides are bad!🙄

[Deleted]March 23, 2024
Iota_AurigaeMarch 23, 2024

Cymbals in the faces of police horses? I’m really curious where that one happened.

girl_undoneMarch 23, 2024

If the horse had panicked and trampled people in a crowd… what were they expecting?

ProxyMusicMarch 23, 2024

The footage posted on Twtter/X showing a masked TRA draped in a trans flag banging a cymbal in the face of a police horse says it happened in Melbourne, Australia.

Iota_AurigaeMarch 23, 2024

Last year? I knew there was a bit of chaos during KJK’s Australia tour, and I’d heard of TRAs punching at horse’s stomachs during the Melbourne one.

ProxyMusicMarch 23, 2024(Edited March 23, 2024)

No, the footage I saw on Twitter/X of the TRA banging a cymbal in the face of a police horse is from a women's rights event in Melbourne today, March 23, 2024 that TRAs protested.

Violent scenes unfolded in Melbourne this afternoon as anti-trans demonstrators clashed with police and counter-protesters on Spring Street.

A huge police presence was seen outside Melbourne's state parliament, called in to oversee a rally organised by feminist group "Women Will Speak".

Police officers used capsicum spray when some activists tried to break through a police line and two protestors were arrested.

https://www.9news.com.au/national/melbourne-gender-protest-activists-clash-with-police/bfde64b9-3263-4003-b4cc-f0a31e361aeb

Unfortunately, the mainstream press reporting is giving the misleading impression that violence at the rally simply "broke out" on its own rather than being instigated and committed by the TRAs. The ABC report headlines say that a "women's rights protest turn(ed) ugly," implying that the feminists holding the women's rights protest were the ones who got violent.

Worse, the ABC has decided to make seem as though two adult female women's rights activists were arrested, when the impression I've gotten is that two the persons arrested were two TRAs of unknown sex who claim to be be women.

To top it all off, the ABC report ends with a comment from a TRA org linking the women's rights activists who held today's demo to the Neo-Nazis who showed up at Kellie-Jay Keen's event there in 2023.

Two women arrested after women's rights protest at Victorian parliament turns ugly

Two women have been arrested in Melbourne's CBD following a women's rights rally that turned violent.

The #WomenWillSpeak demonstration, which took place outside Parliament House about midday on Saturday, intensified following a counter protest by pro-trans rights activists.

In a statement on Saturday afternoon, police said they were "disappointed at the behaviour of many" who attended the rally.

The women arrested were aged in their 20s and will be charged on summons, police said.

Melbourne Activist Legal Support, known as MALS, sent a team of seven legal observers to the rally.

The organisation noted its concern for the rights of trans and gender-diverse people at a similar event about a year ago when British activist Kellie-Jay Keen-Minshull, also known as Posie Parker, hosted a "Let Women Speak" rally outside Victoria's Parliament House, drawing support from Neo-Nazis and a counter-protest from trans rights activists.

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2024-03-23/vic-protesters-clash-with-police-outside-victorian-parliament/103624208

TheKnittaMarch 23, 2024

Bastards! That’s just evil, pure evil.

DoomedSibylMarch 23, 2024

Agreed! Why hurt the poor horses? I’m assuming it’s because there were police officers mounted on these particular horses and a spooked, hurt horse is a pile of panic and very disruptive. And the miscreant hasn’t actually assaulted a police officer from a legal pov but still. Don’t hurt innocent animals. I can’t believe I have to say this out loud.

NoNameMarch 23, 2024

The Twitter account I saw it on said Australia.

MardyMcMareMarch 23, 2024

It’s impossible to have a “neutral” stance on gender, just as it is with Israel/Palestine.

I mean, you may think your contributions are fair and balanced and non-controversial, but whatever you say, and however carefully you say it, you can guarantee someone will take offence.

I tweeted that once - my first and last foray into “trans” issues before finally peaking - and got a pile-on. QED!

Committing_TerveryMarch 23, 2024

I haven’t heard about the horse or fire incidents yet… what happened? Also, what the fuck? Doing that to a horse is cruel. God, I hate these men so fucking much.

RusticTroglodytePubebeard KermitMarch 23, 2024

I can't stand the "both sides" rhetoric. One side is literally fucking dangerous, the other side is us

cosmiamothMarch 23, 2024

Seriously. Twitter fights and youtuber feuds have NOTHING on bomb, rape, and death threats, targeted harassment campaigns, dancing to rape stories, threatening intimidation, and actual violence against individual women and organizations that fail to toe the line.