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Pregnant TIF on Far-Right Propaganda from Italy
Click here to see pregnant Jesus
It says “Less Europe. More Italy. Vote Lega (The League)”. It’s a propaganda poster for the European elections taking place at the beginning of June.
That’s what I mean when I say I’m not that comfortable agreeing with conservatives.
The far-right is using anti Gender-Ideology sentiment to fuel anti-europeanism and to promote their vision of traditional values…
You're not agreeing with conservatives. You're telling the truth.
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"Men cannot become women, and women cannot become men, and indulging those beliefs harms human society."
LOL at pregnant Jesus.
That's why I strongly believe the entire gender movement is part of controlled opposition. When LGB were fighting for rights, conservatives were arguing that "next people will want to marry their dogs and change sex!" The biggest pervs went on to piggyback on LGB and mainstream fueled the perversion so they can later go "see what happens when people have rights?".
A couple of months ago someone on this very site made a “joke” about gays and marrying a dog. Thankfully the mods removed the comment quickly but that’s when I realized, there are way more “conservatives” here than I would have thought.
I honestly don’t have a problem with the regular conservatives but people on the far-right are another story.
I keep forgetting that not everyone here is a radfem, as well, but didn't really expect to find conservatives.
The thing about "agreeing" with conservatives, is that facts are facts, and being able to observe reality says nothing about political leaning. I believe it's result of language manipulation online, but people nowadays talk about facts like they were opinions and vice versa. Men can't be women and that's not an opinion, it's a fact. Radfems and conservatives don't "agree" about it, but rather both groups are able to observe this reality and acknowledge it.
Yeah it is a little bit surprising. And not to be all “as a lesbian” but, as a lesbian I think there is an extra added difficulty agreeing with people who you know would not want you to have the same rights they have (and still think there is something sinful or bad about being gay).
Even as a woman, knowing that conservatives want to erode my rights. I hate to agree with them, but I can't deny that water is wet just because that's what they say too. As u/witchplease says, men can't be women and it's not an opinion, it's a fact.
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Ovarit was always intended to be for all women, not just radfems.
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There are women who lurk here as TIFs, TRAs and libfems. Sometimes they speak up and get down voted, sometimes they only speak up after they detransition or peak. But this site is for every woman, not just ones who agree with you.
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I'm not trying to "beat you" or "win". I downvoted you because you are being unnecessary rude and combative, which is not productive to any conversation. I'm done responding after this because I have already shown evidence that this site is for all women, whether those women want to contribute or not.
(Removed part here cause I got you saw it lol)
Anyway, I think you are correct that this site isn't really for all women. Technically a libfem could use this site and not get banned, but the most popular circles are GC and translogic which have rules which would limit some libfem rhetoric (and practically all TRA)
But I haven't seen a lot of blatant conservative rhetoric on here. Abortion rights good seems to be the general consensus. Sometimes belief in religion might be mentioned, but the atheists also openly state their lack of beliefs without any fights breaking out. There will always be out there comments occasionally, but that is inevitable and doesn't represent the vast majority of comments. I also think there's a lot of women on here who aren't conservative but also aren't really of the radfem persuasion, so I think it's interesting you are saying only the "non conservatives" would leave as a result of seeing things like choice feminism when that's usually considered a liberal standpoint, not a conservative one.
I won't be surprised if this chain gets deleted, but it's because this is all becoming off topic, not because the mods are evil
I have never observed here much conservative sentiment. At most, occasionally someone will post something from a conservative source. Which is understandable when only conservative media will platform gender critical views, but the problem with using conservative sources is to do it uncritically. I have never seen anti-women sentiment around here, nor choice feminism. Hence me forgetting not everyone here is a radfem.
Throwing the blame on older straight women does sound misogynistic, though, and ageist.
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The sad thing is that transgendernonsense kinda has proven such "slippery slope" arguments right.
As feminists, we of course see through the fact that the "T" does not belong with the "LGB" and is a parasitic virus that has infected the movement, but to conservatives, it must look like they were right all along and the "LGBT" movement is to blame for children being groomed to kill themselves with wrong-sex hormones, et cetera.
I personally feel we should debate with moderate conservatives, as unlike genderists, some of them can change their opinion. (Gay rights were won by changing the minds of conservatives. Gay rights activism would stand no chance if the trans overlords had seized power earlier. There is "no debate" with them.)
That's why I believe it's controlled opposition. Conservatives put together LGB, which they see as perversion, with anything else that would range from morally questionable to outright criminal. Pedos were trying to piggyback on LGB for a long time. Conservatives made such a campaign associating LGB with perversion that it gave perverts the opportunity to highjack LGB rights. It began when they put the T together, which ignores completely the very thing that makes LGB a group. The more letters and pluses they added the more the perverts got to take advantage. I would never describe it any part of it as slippery slope because the T should have never been there in the first place. And I believe it's by design. When TQ+ goes down they're going to drag us down too even though we have nothing to do with them, and conservatives have their way.
I am glad it was removed. It was way way way out of line and 100% homophobic. I would leave the site if that kind of thing was considered an okay thing to say in a debate (not that anyone would miss me 😂)
At least it's AI generated and not a real person
True. But our timeline is so weird, I wouldn't be surprised to see a TIF far-right candidate emerging in the future 😂
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some particularly desperate TIFs are roleplaying as far-right men for gender-validation purposes, but they would rather die than be outed as the subhuman females that they are
There are already TIF content creators that try to be the "based trans" and appeal to conservatives and will "acknowledge being female". All you need is one that is willing to be in the political office.
I guess no TIF would ever give her permission to use a photo of her pregnant self for a far right propaganda.
We already have very very verrrrry few TIFs who became popular on news because of their pregnancy, and they didn't want that popularity. It is not a surprise that Lega couldn't get a real photo.
Also, I sense that if they used a real photo, reality would have hit hard. Because the AI created a TIF who has quite of a TIM face, but in reality TIFs have that round feminine face...
Using a real photo would have gone against both left and right propaganda, because it would have been obvious that only women can get pregnant and every pregnant person is always a woman, even with a beard on. The right is afraid that one day even men could get pregnant. They fear femininity for their fellows.
I’m an American, so I don’t quite understand what anti-Europeanism means. Could you explain it to me? I’d thought traditionalists would be proud to be part of Europe as the birthplace Western civilization and all that.
They want individual countries, not the United States of Europe. They're anti-EU, really.
In a political sense it means less involvement in the European Union (basically what the Brexit was about). “Less europe” as they say is a terrible idea with how the world is going.
The European Union represents 448 million of people (it is more than The US). The EU, China and the USA are the 3 largest global players in international trade for example. On the other hand, one single country weights nothing.
The far-right parties in europe are so nationalistic they can’t even agree amongst themselves to form a pan-european party at the parlement lol (that’s how the EU parlement works: each similar party from each country bands together at the parlement).
They also blame the EU for everything wrong going on in Europe (when a lot of things are still decided nationally). I’m not saying the EU is perfect by any means but it’s still a beautiful concept and creation. I still get a bit emotional when I think about the relationship between Germany and France today after what the two countries went through.
I still get a bit emotional when I think about the relationship between Germany and France today after what the two countries went through.
Me too. Europe is not perfect but it definitely brought peace among us, and we are living the longest period of peace in this continent because of this decision. People are free to roam, work and build connections and wealth and families everywhere, even between countries who used to he mortal enemies. This outcome is so beautiful :')
Completely agree. It’s hard work and very idealistic but I think it’s the most beautiful and impressive political endeavour ever created. Going against thousands of years of wars between us all and coming together for common peace is truly incredible :')
The European Union represents 448 million of people (it is more than The US)
Yes, the EU includes 448 million people. Whether the EU really "represents" all those people is debatable.
The European Union (EU) was founded in 1993 to oversee the economic and political integration of the countries in Europe that were members of what previously had been known as the European Economic Community (EEC) which came to be known as the plain European Community (EC).
The EC began as the European Coal and Steel Community (ECSC) in 1951. In 1957, the European Economic Community (EEC) was created when Belgium, France, Italy, Luxembourg, the Netherlands, and West Germany signed a treaty to form an alliance for the purpose of making trade and economic relations amongst themselves easier. Another name for this alliance was the European Common Market.
Over the years, other countries in Europe joined the EEC and became "common market countries." Denmark, Ireland and the UK joined in 1973. Greece joined in 1981. Portugal and Spain joined in 1986.
The success of the common market and the EC made the people running the governments of its individual member states more receptive to greater integration. The EC seemed to provided a basic framework out of which could be built a structure to unite member countries in a wide variety of areas beyond trade and economics, such as security and foreign policy, environmental regulations, policing and jurisprudence, immigration, asylum and refugees. Hence the European Community became the European Union in 1993.
Twelve nations in Western Europe were part of the European Union when it was created in 1993: Great Britain, France, Germany, the Irish Republic, Spain, Portugal, Italy, Greece, Denmark, Luxembourg, Belgium, and the Netherlands. Austria, Finland, and Sweden became members of the EU in 1995. This brought the total number of nation members to 15.
One of the major goals of the EU from the start was to create a common monetary system across Western Europe. In 1999, the EU introduced a new form of currency, the euro. In 2002, the euro became the official currency of the EU. At that time, the euro replaced the national currencies of 12 of the 15 countries that were then members of the EU. The UK, Denmark and Sweden elected not to switch to the euro. The part of Western Europe where the euro was used became known as "the Eurozone" - and nations in that part of Europe became known as "Eurozone countries."
In the current centuru, another 13 countries have joined the EU, many of them countries in Eastern Europe that were in the Soviet sphere of influence during the era when the USSR was in existence. In 2016, one country in Western Europe, the UK, decided to leave the EU - Brexit was completed a couple of years ago. This brings the total of EU countries to 27 today.
Today, the EU is a vast, sprawling bureaucratic behemoth that holds sway over innumerable aspects of life for the 448 million people who live EU member countries. The EU's principal institutions are the European Community, the Council of Ministers (a forum for individual ministries), the European Commission, the European Parliament, the European Court of Justice, the European Court of Human Rights, and the European Central Bank.
Again, whether the EU truly represents all 448 million of the people under EU governance today is a matter of debate.
But as someone old enough to remember when the UK joined the "common market" back in 1973 and who's watched in amazement as the EU ballooned into the gigantic, enormously powerful force it is today, I can understand why some people in some European countries would have mixed feelings about the EU and why some people would want to leave.
It’s worth noting that many of the gender “reforms” implemented recently were allegedly done at the behest of the EU. I’ve heard Ireland’s self-ID law was the Irish government trying to get ahead of the EU forcing it on them anyway.
I’d thought traditionalists would be proud to be part of Europe
Lol no.
Being a proud European is something lefty, because it symbolizes collaboration among countries, a common goal, and mutual acceptance of differences.
Conservatives don't recognize/like European Union's power, because it doesn't always do their own country's interests. They think that if the EU didn't exist all their country's problems would go away.
as the birthplace Western civilization and all that.
Italian conservatives are proud of their Italian and Christian origins, not European. And the very far right (which is a subgroup of conservatives) still gets dreamy of the fascist era, with all its values, culture and historical revisionism and all of that.
Being a proud European is something lefty, because it symbolizes collaboration among countries, a common goal, and mutual acceptance of differences.
Fun fact: One upon a time, the German Burschenschaften (idk how to translate? Fraternity? Student union?) were progressive for being pro-Germany (back when "Germany" consisted of a multitude of smaller realms, wanting to unite students all over "Germany" was progressive), now they're ... well, very nationalist and backwards for still being in favour of the same thing, as now that means kinda being against Europe. (I also suspect that a lot of men mingling only with other men and no women promotes far-right attitudes.)
So, I kinda hope things move further in that direction, and the new "far right" will be people who are all about "Europe! We are proud citizens of Europe and don't want any foreigners from outside Europe here!", while the left moves on to promote international connections.
while the left moves on to promote international connections.
even while the same left supports things like Catalan separatism ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Being a proud European is something lefty, because it symbolizes collaboration among countries, a common goal, and mutual acceptance of differences.
But that's just propaganda, no? From what I've seen the EU seems like economical colonization disguised as progress.
Full disclosure I'm not European, just travelled a lot, so correct me if I'm wrong.
It started as an economic union but in the last ~20 years they understood that identity is important as well. Capitalism can only do so much, you then need people to believe in the project.
In fact you'll find many Europe fans among the younger generations and more skeptics among the older generations.
The former mentality translates in faith in this solidarity, willingness to accept the sacrifices to help other countries, participation in European projects, going to vote, studying in other partnered universities, and of course less xenophobia. Everything contributes to the development of this very new identity. Only the future knows what it'll become in the end.
And since it is still developing and fragile, in each country you'll find organized groups who try to go against it and revert the process. "Only my country is the best country in the world and has the most musical language, the most intelligent people, the most enlightened politics and the most valuable culture".
I'm certain that if we didn't have the EU we would still be throwing each other sticks and stones along the border like one century ago.
The peaceful moment in history that Europe is going through is something that can't be denied, of course. I have European ancestry, and I know for a fact that my ancestors didn't migrate in the 19th century to a recently independent colony they knew little to nothing about because they just wanted a change of scenery.
I grow suspicious when during COVID lockdown they brought Romanian and Bulgarian workers to Germany for harvest season. Or the fact that in Romania most supermarkets are from Germany. I wonder what would happen to the Romanian economy if all investors from EU decided to up and leave... Or the fact that women from Romania and Bulgaria are trafficked into legal prostitution in Western Europe. Germany threatening to kick Greece out of EU right when they had economical problems seemed a little suspicious and power trippy to me. Portugal has an issue with young people with higher education leaving to work in other EU counties. They wouldn't pull off EU if it weren't advantageous to people in one way or another, but I'm trying to look at the bigger picture.
For us in the third world trading with EU or US seem very advantageous at first glance. They come here, make investments, create jobs, our currency becomes more valuable, which means it becomes cheaper for me to travel or import stuff, but doesn't change the fact that they are taking our resources, hindering our chances of independent development, and things for us get only slightly better, and only temporarily. In terms of natural resources we are one of the richest nations in the world, but economically we are entirely dependant on the US, EU and now China. That does feel like colonization to me, just not in the same model as old timey colonization.
With Italy's birth rate at a record low they would surely be glad that anybody was having babies!
https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/births-fall-italy-15th-year-running-record-low-2024-03-29/
I don't know why Italy's birth rate was low before, but I have some ideas why it is falling recently. With poor people being once more reduced to begging in the streets, it is little wonder that women don't want to have children before they have enough savings to never need a job ever again.
Italy has had a very low birth rate compares to the most Western democraties for a while. I attribute it to a country that moreso than the rest of Europe has not moved past its incredibly patriarchal family culture while becoming a modern capitalist economy. There is simply no upside to having children for women in Italy.
I had the luck to read a paper about it, it basically was a mix of factors.
Low wages for young workers of course; but also the expectation that women must have them all, they are expected to be educated, to work, to have one or more babies, to be a mother, to take care of the house, to prepare the food and think about what is left in the fridge, etc. basically the mental workload still falls on women's shoulders because culturally we didn't evolve enough from the old patriarchal culture where the man was the breadwinner and the woman the housewife. Also, being pregnant is a huge career stopper, because almost nobody wants to hire a pregnant woman or a neo-mother. Last but not least, some women discovered that motherhood is a choice and postpone their fertility, if they do it at all. Finally, young adults are afraid of the climatic collapse.
Basically there are too many downsides for Italian women to have children. Decent wages would help those who really wish to create a family and have the right conditions (basically a steady job and a good male partner who isn't a slob), but it wouldn't work extensively. Gender equality, real gender equality, must be obtained both at work and in relationship in order to convince most women to get pregnant.
Knowing how Italian conservatives think, they don't see the TIF as a pregnant woman with a beard bur rather as a man unnaturally pregnant. Hence the horror.
When you translate the image to reality, you are obviously looking at a pregnant woman with a beautiful beard. Nothing extraordinary, women do it since forever.
But the picture caused horror among conservatives and hilarity among liberals, both because they think that a real man can become pregnant. The former are afraid that they will become pregnant against nature; and the latter want to change reality with words and delusion.
The former are afraid that they will become pregnant against nature
I thought the same thing. Sure, it can be hard to keep the anti-reality "queer" terminology and roleplaying terms straight, but also...conservatives are just dumbasses, and they don't really seem to use their brains beyond following whatever knee-jerk reaction men's dicks get.
I just don't think they would center a bearded woman getting pregnant instead of screaming about how omg they're ruining the MEN! THEY WANT TO GET MEN PREGNANT!!! Which also plays into the whole "women are just trying to emasculate men and treat them the way they've been treated at the hands of men!" narratives. If they gave enough of a shit about TIFs to mention them, it'd be just as an extension of an ugly lesbian/feminist trope ("look at these women making themselves less hot for men!"), rather than showing them doing their womanly duties of reproducing.
Oh we all understand why people are uncomfortable workong with the right.
You would think so but all the downvotes I got tell another story.
"I’m not that comfortable agreeing with conservatives"
Most conservatives would also say that the earth is (ETA: not) flat. Certainly the political representatives of conservative parties would.
I'm comfortable agreeing with that.
Shouldn't we all be comfortable agreeing with the truth, no matter who says it? A bad person cannot make a truth into a falsehood. That's like saying vegetarianism is wrong because Hitler was a vegetarian.
I do know how you feel - recently TED CRUZ said something I completely agreed with, when he was interrogating some judicial nominee on her absurd beliefs about TIMs in women's prisons, and that was not a comfortable place for me at all.
But here's the thing: it's only uncomfortable because most of the people on our own side either agree with the insanity or are too cowardly to speak up. IOW we're only agreeing with Ted Cruz because nobody on our side of Congress is speaking those truths.
And THAT is the problem: that our own people are not speaking these truths.
Most conservatives would also say that the earth is flat. Certainly the political representatives of conservative parties would.
I'm comfortable agreeing with that.
Uh ?
Anyway.
I have a problem with the far-right pushing “traditional” family values as seen on the Italian poster and acting like it is the only way to live. I don’t think I need to explain why on a feminist website ? Conservatives aren’t women-friendly. And I have a problem with them constantly pushing homophobia in their various countries.
We’ve tried the far-right in Europe and we've seen what it brings.
“Hitler” isn’t just a man you bring up to win an argument to us.
There's a massive difference between agreeing on a sentiment like "the Earth is flat" based on the same reasoning, and agreeing on anti-trans ideas because being gender nonconforming is yucky and you shouldn't change sex because women should stick to being sexy breeding stock for their breadwinning masculine husbands, as the great patriarchal God intended. This isn't a case of "Oh we happen to coincidentally agree" No, we don't. You cannot be GC or radical feminist and support gender roles.
The far-right is using anti Gender-Ideology sentiment to fuel anti-europeanism and to promote their vision of traditional values…
As someone who is in a mixed marriage and happy, I am well aware that most people are not like me. I say that with no judgment and superiority- I'm sure I have flaws others don't. But clearly, most people all over the planet are not like me.
Europe is about 3.9 million square miles. The US mainland is about 3.8 million square miles. However, Europe is sooooo vastly different from one another that they are separate countries with different languages and LONG history of not getting along. There used to be even more countries. Good luck explaining to an American the difference between a Hessian and a Prussian, but it used to be a big hairy deal.
It's quite possible that the EU has maxed out on what it can ask of people, especially with mass migration failing as it has. I wish they would just stop, take a deep breath, and try cooling things down with the people. They should go no further, quit while they're ahead, work on maintaining what they have.
A pregnant belly on a TIF is absurd though and people have a visceral reaction to it. The left are creating amazing content to alienate normies to the right. The left are kicking so many own goals it’s ridiculous.
We’re not agreeing with conservatives as much as not uncritically swallowing and suppressing our intuition for everything the current left orthodoxy shoves down our throat. It’s normal to not have your thoughts 100% align with one single group on every issue, that shows you’re capable of critical thinking.
A hugely important thing we can do is to be a voice of dissent on the left on these issues, as subtly or as loudly as we are able to given our circumstances. Even just occasionally interacting with centrist/right wing people as someone who is left but isn’t a walking KwEeR/ALly stereotype can help stop the radicalisation of people to the right a little bit.