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Resourcegenderarguments.com archive
Unfortunately it looks like genderarguments.com turned "private" at some point. š Since it was hosted on WordPress, I am wondering if WP shut it down (last I heard, the company is pro-TRA).
Anyway, I used wayback machine to archive the contents of the arguments on clovenhooves.org: https://clovenhooves.org/showthread.php?tid=449
I think they're quite decent and eloquent arguments against common TRA talking points, from an actual gender critical feminist angle and not just an "anti trans" angle (which, I mean, falls apart pretty easily to begin with). The website was a useful resource that I don't want to lose. š
No sympathy here. They would have known this is a typical outcome with these surgeries if they bothered to research first and didn't let their brothers in arms delete any truthful discussion on these surgical outcomes.
Cutting your healthy genitals off is a bad idea, who knew?
He's probably spent $100,000 on this attempt to appropriate femaleness for himself. Much of that NOT out of his own pocket. He's encouraged others to get surgeries. He supports childhood transition. He supports males in female sports teams.
Yes, what he did to himself is a tragedy. It's an atrocity that doctors are free to do this to people.
I don't wish pain on him, I hope he gets better.
But it was his own misogyny that drove him here, and on that score he has not improved.
[Comment deleted]
suicide averted
If only this were true. Seen one too many people with the pain from these complications mention that they are now seriously considering euthanasia :(
I find myself wondering sometimes if suicide by "medically assisted death" arising from medical mutilation is on some unspoken level one of the expected outcomes.
Certainly many of the damaged victims of these practitioners of medical mutilation (hormonal as well as surgical), desperate for any kind of improvement in their situation, are likely to provide "human lab animals" for further gender / transhuman experimentation in future.
If anyone was curious about what he looked like before: example one | example two | example three. In that first before photo he has a little bit of a Tucker Carlson hairstyle going on lol.
He actually looked fairly decent before, but his after photos look like they're rather filtered. There's a sameness to them that's probably a filter. Plus he's evidently a big fan of using an angle that looks right down his shirt with an emphasis on his moobs. In other comments he said he's had facial surgery done too: he posted before and after photos taken by the surgeon.
He said he had these procedures done: > "First round: Hairline lowering, type III forehead reconstruction, brow lift, rhinoplasty, fat transfer to cheeks and lips, jaw shaving, genioplasty, and trach shave
Second round: Additional forehead burring/rounding out, additional brow lift, additional fat transfer to lips, creation of skin flap on chin (to get rid of cleft), and liposuction under jaw"
He had a somewhat daintier face to start with compared to a lot of TIMs though. He also posted a photo of him two years pre-transition, with a different hairstyle and facial hair. He looks pretty different in that one. He also said he had a BBL surgery: "Fat transfers are amazing for transition. Did it for my cheeks and lips during FFS. Then BBL for hips, outer thighs, and butt. Adds so much shape."
Apparently his partner is also trans, a TIF, and they swapped clothes when she (the TIF partner) transitioned. It's so ridiculous to think about; you can borrow your boyfriend's clothes without transing yourself. Women have been borrowing their boyfriend/husband's clothes for decades.
Lots of men have more delicate bone structure in their 20s. A man's bone structure becomes heavier and more pronounced in middle age. I suppose most of these guys don't understand that.
Thanks for the links and doing that investigating. This guy really loves to get surgery.
You're welcome. He really does seem to be keen on surgeries. I wonder how much all of it has cost so far. Though apparently he's been able to get most of the cost covered via health insurance, at least for the facial surgery: "For my primary surgery with DB for example I was able to get over 80% of his professional fee paid for out of network with my insurance. It takes a lot of due diligence and work but it can happen."
DB is the surgeon who did the facial surgery/ies, Jordan Deschamps-Braly. He was interviewed in 2018; part of that article says:
"The surgery can cost from $40,000 to upwards of $60,000 and is rarely covered by insurance. But patients say Deschamps-Braly is worth the cost. His high-quality work stands apart (undoing botched operations by other surgeons accounts for about 20-30 per cent of his surgery on transgender people)"
holy fuck that's a lot. I can't get the article to archive and there's a paywall, so the quote is just from a preview snippet I saw in the search results.
Wow, I remember this guy from when I used to follow the r/MTF subreddit. I remember thinking that he and his partner look like each other, I had no idea she was a TIF. He actually seemed kind of nice and not as brain-rotted as some of the other AGPs. I do feel bad for him, there isnāt any coming back from vaginoplasty.
oh interesting, how long ago was that? Based on his post/comment history, he's been transitioned since about two (maybe closer to three?) years ago. The account history for this particular account only goes back a year, but in comments/posts he mentions how long it had been since he started taking hormones. Did he previously have a different account?
I agree that based on what he's posted, he doesn't necessarily seem "as brain-rotted as some of the other AGPs" but maybe he's just better at hiding it.
That jaw shaving really gives his face a downright creepy vibe, imho - like, that "your face looks unnaturally edited" look from the uncanny valley.
He called the wound between his legs a canal!? Like a birth canal? Oh, for Godās sake.
Transcript:
Dr. Min Jun Made Me Feel Ashamed of My Body
Iāve talked about the issues Iāve had with Dr. Jun and my Vaginoplasty but what occurred yesterday caused me even more harm. I asked for a post-op appointment because my quality of life is terrible even 5 months post op. I pee absolutely everywhere (all over my legs, rear, etc regardless of sitting position), my canal is extremely painful especially at the entrance where there is excessive scar tissue making every dilation session hell, and aesthetically its just not correct. Regardless of what had happened I needed a post-op with the original surgeon, I need my life back.
I wanted to talk to Dr. Jun before the appointment to clear the air a bit and for me to feel comfortable opening my legs up in front of a doctor who had verbally abused me in the past. Instead of this happening he barraged me in the meeting by saying he was not comfortable ever operating on me again regardless of revision needs. I was a mess and just broke down crying in front of all 3 people in the room. This lasted for awhile and eventually we got to the point of the exam. I should have left before this, but having three medical professionals standing in front of you telling you to do something while you feel vulnerable is a hard situation.
The next part is one that is causing me a lot of pain. After I got undressed and Dr. Jun, his PA, and a nurse all came back in, instead of performing an exam on me Dr. Jun retreated to the corner of the room. Suddenly his PA was the one between my legs, and Dr. Jun made clear he was not comfortable performing an exam on me.
I would have never showed up to see this doctor who had treated me so badly if I had known this was the case. I was only there due to being in severe pain and not being able to pee outside of my own home. When your quality of life is this bad you can forgive a lot to try to get the care you need.
I felt so ashamed with my legs wide open and my surgeon standing at a distance, unwilling to even examine his own work or take responsibility for these significant complications. Iām ashamed of my body, and looking at my genitals is now a reminder of broken promises and significant trauma.
Iāve said before that Dr. Jun is not the right doctor for anyone. I should have followed my own damn advice but I had imminent issues and setting up care with a new GCS surgeon takes a long time. But instead of receiving care I need, I saw a doctor who played the victim and made me feel ashamed of the genitals he had created. Iām broken over this experience, and it will take a lot of therapy and time to get over what has happened.
This man was allegedly verbally abused by this doctor, but still had his genital surgery with him. Obviously this TIM completely bought into the surgery scam, and he didn't follow his instincts. I don't normally feel bad for TIMs who get their penises operated on but this TIM must have some serious mental health issues, and now has physical issues .
Jun works for the Crane Center, and Crane is a well-known butcher.
Yeah, they're also known for "Salmacian" surgery. The Drs are creepy as fuck.
I can definitely see a difference, but not enough of one to undergo that many expensive surgical procedures. Never heard of contouring, maybe?
Are we still taking TIP's claims of verbal abuse seriously in 2023? Lmao, the surgeon probably told him he won't be able to get periods or look like an Instagram baddie in the recovery room- that's the threshold of "verbal abuse" for these lunatics.
And you gyns are really feeling broken hearted and sad for a sex predator in this thread. Did we forget who he is? A pervert, probably a pedo or rapist going off the data we KNOW about TIMs. I, for one, am NOT sad and brokenhearted for this sick disgusting pervert.
We donāt know heās any of those things from his post history so I will not assume.
If you want to be callous and hateful thatās your decision but donāt press it on the rest of us.
I do take TIPs claims of verbal abuse seriously when the person they claim to have been abused by is a TRA and gender butcher.
Statistical probability says that TIPs are fragile flowers who cry "abuse" at the slightest disagreement with their idiotic beliefs .
However, probability also says that a surgeon who makes it his specialisation to butcher healthy genitals is likely not a good person. Nor necessarily honest enough to tell a patient in advance that gender butchery does not a woman make.
It is only human to feel sad for someone who had his genitals mangled if we don't know for sure that he is a rapist.
And well, the statistics also say that most predatory TIMs keep their penises. So the very fact that this guy had his penis chopped off speaks in his favour.
This is tragic.
Weeping in humiliated frustration while you plead for reassurance and medical attention from the surgeon who amputated your healthy sex organs and left you soaking yourself with urine over an excruciating constructed wound is not āyou get what you pay forā karma for bad ideas.
This person is a victim of toxic ideology and predatory doctors that have profoundly damaged his body and stripped him of his ability to use the bathroom away from home, hopefully only for the short-term. Harrowing.
I would absolutely wave my magic wand and absolve all errors in judgment that led to this outcome, no questions asked. None of us should pay for our human frailty at the expense of our dignity or physical well-being.
I agree, this sounds horrible, and no one should be treated this way by a medical professional they should be able to trust.
Some years ago I went through multiple dental procedures on one tooth, just to have the dentist who treated me tell me that she'd have to pull it after all. I had been through weeks of quite frankly horrible pain while she tried saving that tooth, all for that being the end result. Which is why I might have reacted a little harshly to it in the moment. I didn't even accuse her of anything, it was something like "Seriously, I show up here x times and now you are telling me you have to pull it?". I was clearly in distress at the time.
Well, she went and got her boss (this was a joint practice) who proceeded to berate me immediately, basically telling me how it was all my own fault (for supposedly not coming in early enough) and showing absolutely zero empathy for someone in pain who might have overreacted. I left close to tears that day, feeling like absolute shit and humiliated, and never went back. Got the tooth pulled by a different dentist who still treats me to this day.
What I wanted to say with this little anecdote is: In my case it was "only" a tooth. Could be replaced, even if it was a hassle, and didn't ruin my entire life. I can't imagine what the OP of this reddit post must have felt like.
Thatās an excellent and empathetic comparison. A surgeon standing at the edge of the room and callously refusing to examine his own patientās exposed, damaged genitals for liability reasons is monstrous.