Why are they so adamant about decoupling womanhood from being female? What is the end goal? What about centering an interest in eyeshadow as the quintessential womanly experience benefits them? Are they just pretending and parroting what they believe is the correct opinion to have?
Why when you link womanhood to anything pertaining to the female body do they get so damn defensive and mad? Do they think their endometriosis will magically go away if they pretend trans identified men can experience it too?
In what ways is insisting that womanhood is all a performance and not a physical, material state of existence beneficial to them? Is it all just cope to feel better about buying makeup? Is it a cop out so that they don't have to improve our societal condition and can just buy more eyeshadow and otherwise disassociate?
Why is it more beneficial to them to sum up womanhood as being an idea in a fetishistic man's head than simply existing as a female? Why is that the preferred definition for them? What's better about that for them? Why are they more comfortable in a space where they're being objectified and used as a gender validation prop than in a space where they are accepted for what they are and can share their unique struggles with other human beings who understand how they feel?
Why do they make it a point to alienate other women with TERFy beliefs? Do they want to be the only mate choice for TIMs? Has it all been a subconscious mating strategy to hoard males this whole time?
It can't just be prioritizing male approval over everything else? Is it just male approval? Is it that simple??
What's going on? What's the psychology? I don't understand. Im not even close to understanding it. I can't fathom it. Are they just stupid? What's going on?!
It comes down to a few things. Long comment incoming.
(1) Female socialization (and perhaps biology as well) Women are socialized to be empathetic, to be kind, to “fix” people (especially men). Obviously this either fails or succeeds depending on individual personality but I’m talking on a societal level. It’s often weaponized against them too which leads to:
(2) High on righteousness People love to feel like they’re good people (ties into a biologically selected predisposition to altruism as well). Women especially, it seems. And this allows them to weaponize female socialization in a way that makes them feel powerful (ostracization, patronizing exclusion). Some people are bullies because they were bullied, but just as many are bullies because it feels good. This cloaks those tendencies in moral righteousness, making it even sweeter.
Women also have much more to lose in this debate, which they recognize deep down, and so it gives them an even stronger moral high of even though they say I’m supposed to be suffering the most I’m being so gracious and accepting right now! I’m also sooo smart and enlightened! (Crucially, they think that the fact that they are so accepting is due to the fact that they’re innately better and more knowledgeable than the bigots and backwards hicks that oppose it, rather than the truth which is that they’re actually rather simple and they’ve been lucky enough not to directly suffer the consequences-yet).
(3) It gives them a purpose There’s a reason people tend to gravitate towards religion. They want to believe in something greater than themselves and it gives them something to fight for. It literally fills a spiritual hole in some people, and again, this tends to affect women more than men, at least in my opinion.
(4)They live in a bubble This isn’t women specific but important to note. If they live in a certain area or travel in certain social circles this is all being constantly reinforced, not to mention media
(5) They are spoiled No, I don’t mean in the monetary sense. I mean that most of these western women who do these things have had the lifelong luxury of not knowing what it was like to not have these protections in the first place. so they are having to relearn the hard way why women have their own sports’ leagues and private spaces. They are also ignorant about the depths of male sexual depravity, and are naïve. Some operate under the impression that most TIMs are poor suffering twinkish homosexuals. When they’re confronted with evidence to the contrary they bury their heads in the sand because they’re in too deep and maybe they’re true believers (see the previous point) which leads me to the last point
(6) They’re in too deep Pretty self explanatory. The evidence mounts that they’re wrong, and they persist (and even get aggressive and double down) because acknowledging that you’ve been duped, especially in service of men, is embarrassing. And life altering, in some cases.
I completely agree.
It literally fills a spiritual hole in some people, and again, this tends to affect women more than men, at least in my opinion.
This one point really makes me think. I can not understand why women are more susceptible to this than men.
I'm thinking it goes something like this.
(Edited because that was way TL;DR wall of text)
Men can always go to their tradtional patriarchal religious institution of choice and be told they're the head of the household, the head of their faith, God's chosen sex and special creation. They get their spiritual needs met (or believe they do). Women have fewer choices, none of them truly woman-friendly.
TRA handmaidenry is an appealing substitute for spiritual practice. It has the notion of self-sacrifice for the greater good. It has the righteous fight against oppression. It has charismatic leaders and prophets. Saints and martyrs. The absolution of sinners. The promise of justice and retribution for the wronged. A set of shared beliefs set down on holy texts (the internet). It has the hierarchy of TIM at the top to woman at the bottom, which is both comfortable for anyone raised in a patriarchal religion (which is most religions) while also having the veneer of respecting woman (which is lolworthy). Hell, it has transubstantiation!
I had to read this a couple of times and give it some thought.
This makes a lot of sense. Thank you for your reply.
I wonder if maybe women are just predisposed to enforce conformity and if men tell them that's what's normal they'll just enforce it
I like your comment. I made a really long comment too and touched on some things that are kind of similar to your comment.
your second point is like this Aldous Huxley quote, which I mentioned in my comment here and have mentioned in the past, since it's very relevant to all this.
“The surest way to work up a crusade in favor of some good cause is to promise people they will have a chance of maltreating someone. To be able to destroy with good conscience, to be able to behave badly and call your bad behavior 'righteous indignation' — this is the height of psychological luxury, the most delicious of moral treats.”
I know OP, and you, specifically refer to women's support of trans ideology, but I can think of some men who are pretty fervent TRAs. I'm not sure to what extent a male TRA's motivations differ from a female TRA though.
from what I can tell, the men I'm thinking of seem to be driven by wanting to feel like a good person (i.e. self-righteousness), even though there may be less social pressure and no female socialization for them to support trans ideology. your points 3, 4 and 6 could be at play in varying amounts too.
it's also possible they might (subconsciously?) be doing it in some kind of self-serving way, like "if I am a Very Good TRA Guy, I'll be more attractive to [TRA] women." although I'm not sure if that theory holds up - I'd have to observe more male TRAs and whether they're already in a hetero relationship, or if they're gay. I am actually curious now if there are many male TRAs in hetero relationships where the man is the more fervent TRA in the couple. or if it's more common for both partners to be about equal there, or for the woman being the biggest TRA.
For sure, all of these points can and do apply to male TRAs as well. I think that the reason that a greater percentage of TRAs are female (and they tend to be the most dedicated ones) is because a lot of them affect girls and women more.
As anyone here who grew up and went to school knows, female social hierarchy is generally markedly different from males, and exclusion and veiled insults and tear downs are a big part of that.
To your point about male TRAs doing it to be attractive to women, I think this is part of the “male feminist” phenomenon, where men do pretend to be more fervently liberal than they actually are because they want to attract liberal women (and incidentally often drop this act once they get married or the woman gets pregnant).
I don’t really listen to Joe Rogan at all (so nobody jump down my throat about him, I know he’s controversial for…some reason) but I was watching a YouTube video and someone inserted a clip of his that really stuck with me where he called male feminists “little weasels who’re trying to find a new way in” because they were not traditionally masculine or attractive to women. And to be honest, I have anecdotally seen this and believe it to be true. Just like how so many breadtuber types nowadays are all shaving and dressing like 80s perverts/sex pests in an “ironic” way.
Whew! I’m on a typing spree today
oh sure, I agree that the majority of run-of-the-mill TRAs are women.
but since there are some male TRAs, it makes me curious about to what extent their motivations differ from female TRAs. also, if it's less common for men to be TRAs, what drives the men who are TRAs to be that way? is there something different about them that makes them more susceptible, for lack of a better word?
back to my point about male TRAs maybe doing it to be more attractive to women, would it mean that men who are more physically attractive are less likely to resort to fervent TRA behavior, since they can attract women without needing to use hyper-righteous trendy TRA beliefs to help? are straight men in relationships more immune to TRA behavior because they've already attracted a woman? like I said, I'd have to observe more male TRAs to get some better anecdata here.
As anyone here who grew up and went to school knows, female social hierarchy is generally markedly different from males, and exclusion and veiled insults and tear downs are a big part of that.
this is a good point and I didn't think of this specific aspect before. relating it back to "why are some men very fervent TRAs?" even if there aren't the same social pressures on them -- does it mean that maybe those male TRAs have more women in their friend groups, so they're being exposed to and more affected by female social hierarchy dynamics on this topic? or idk, maybe their friend groups are primarily male and it just happens to be a bunch of TRA men. tbh I'm not really sure if male TRAs are a strong factor in socially enforcing other men's support of trans ideology.
also, in my whole comment here, when I say "men" I mean liberal men who are at least mildly supportive of trans ideology, though as I said, some are much more heavily, vocally supportive of it. I'm not talking about conservative men who presumably are anti-trans, and not gender critical men either.
I'm on a typing spree today too!
I think there are an additional two reasons men support it:
They don't want 'those guys' to be classified as men. They want TIMs to have their 'man card' revoked.
Bro code - don't get in the way of any other man's method of choice for getting a boner.
This.
I think men have always ostrasized loser men who dont perform masculinity properly. Sending them to the girls side is one way of doing this.
Also, like you said, they know they are men and want men to be able to do what men want to do. If that is cosplaying as women, then so be it.
Lastly, I want to mention the men who claim they are straight even though they are attracted to TIMs. TRA logic allows them to still consider themselves to be real men.
Edit: One more thing, this isnt necessarily exclusive to men, but I think its slightly more common in comservative men than women...gender roles. Many men think that women must do girly things, must submit, must smile and wear cute clothing. So if a man performs the stereotypes well enough, it could be that these sorts of males truly fall for it.
I think men have always ostrasized loser men who dont perform masculinity properly. Sending them to the girls side is one way of doing this
This is the vibe I get lurking on a certain farming community. There's a split there between the male posters who find TIPs hilarious and the female posters who find TIPs ridiculous and scary. ("Ridiculous" being distinct from "hilarious." "Ridiculous" isn't necessarily funny.)
Maybe men fear women laughing at them because they laugh so much at each other. It's one way they police themselves.
Lastly, I want to mention the men who claim they are straight event though they are attracted to TIMs. TRA logic allows them to still consider themselves to be real men
Honestly I believe a lot of those TIM-attracted men are simply faceblind and bad at clocking. I have my issues with Simon Baron-Cohen's hypothesis of autism as "extreme male brain," but it does help me make sense of why so many straight men who'd rather be caught dead than in bed with a TIM are nonetheless terrible at clocking.
Men haven't faced the evolutionary pressure women have in needing to accurately identify a predator in nanoseconds, and it shows.
Maybe men fear women laughing at them because they laugh so much at each other. It's one way they police themselves.
Theres a thought...Perhaps, like voting and owning property, men believe that only other men are allowed that privilege.
Honestly I believe a lot of those TIM-attracted men are simply faceblind and bad at clocking.
I think both can be true. Men may be worse at clocking, but plenty of them are watching TIM porn and even dating them, but considering themselves straight. Matt Dilhunty is an internet-famous debater who is in a relationship with a TIM. Ive heard him declare that, "Being gay is fine of course, but I'm not gay."
but since there are some male TRAs, it makes me curious about to what extent their motivations differ from female TRAs. also, if it's less common for men to be TRAs, what drives the men who are TRAs to be that way? is there something different about them that makes them more susceptible, for lack of a better word?
They get to be openly misogynistic and hateful.
As anyone here who grew up and went to school knows, female social hierarchy is generally markedly different from males, and exclusion and veiled insults and tear downs are a big part of that.
someone else's comment made me think of another thing related to this part of your comment.
my sister is a major TRA, though I don't know what exactly motivates her to be that way. but awhile ago I was thinking about how all her friends are female (she is straight, btw), and she doesn't seem to have any male, platonic friends that I'm aware of. I assume she has some male acquaintances, but the friends she spends the most time with are female - a few (but not the majority) of them are TIFs or NBIFs of some sort.
this is in contrast with me, where the majority of my friends are male. so maybe there are different social dynamics going on amidst my sister's all-female friend group that keep the TRA beliefs more entrenched.
idk, I'm just pondering and speculating here - the social psychology and sociological stuff going on with TRAs is interesting to try and analyse and unravel, and it's something I don't necessarily see as much discussion of.
Maybe but anecdotally I’ve been GC for a long time and although I have had and have now male friends, all my close friendships have been with other women. Additionally I will say three quarters of my male friends are gay. Not necessarily in an overly feminine way, but just not sexually attracted to women.
(Tangent) In my experience, it doesn’t matter how good you are as friends, how you met etc, straight guys will always at some point decide that they want to date and/or have sex and will always “catch feelings.” And then comes the inevitable confession, or when they start acting noticeably different towards you and you have to brace yourself for it.
I’m not even saying that I’m unusually gorgeous or have a stunning personality or whatever, literally I think it pretty much always happens. Men are not geared to accept positive nonsexual feelings towards women. So the friendships I usually am able to sustain are with men who aren’t and who never will see me as a sexual prospect. 🤷♀️
I fully admit that maybe I’m not being fair and that my experience is not universal but, there you have it
It comes down to a few things. Long comment incoming.
I love this comment because these are all reasons I’ve come across as well and have noted in my mind, just never wrote down. I love how neatly and succinctly this puts it all together.
I think #1 is the biggest issue with certain female friends of mine, but misinformation is probably #2. I think they think these are just confused gay men or that they actually do have some hardwired female brain/body mismatch. One hit me with the "straight men are the real threat" and I'm trying to explain that yes, they are, and that's who we are talking about in this instance. But men are the issue.
I also don't think they are considering a scenario other than them saying they're fine with it. Like, what about when your fellow women say no, they're uncomfortable? Do you still validate the man when he says, "I don't give a shit?"
It's tough for me as a dude because I don't want to come across like I'm telling a woman how she needs to think as a woman or how to protect other women. But like, damn, they are men! They are the danger, Skyler! Do not endanger my mother because your head has been buried in the sand about this!
Plus it's honestly such a tough sell that the entirety of every fucking institution is ideologically captured. You just wind up sounding like a nutjob when you point out that publications like Scientific American, all of academia, MSM, and everything in-between are captured by this lunacy .
I was pro-trans for a while a few years back: essentially, I was pretty naïve and bought into the idea that TIMs were harmless, they ‘just wanted to pee’, that the right thing and the kind thing to do was to affirm them. We all want to think of ourselves as good people, and when there’s a lot of social pressure to do/think something and a lot of social stigma when you don’t it becomes hard to break away from (what appears to be) the consensus.
TL;DR: Women in particular are socialized to be kind, it’s especially easy with outside pressure to think that humoring outlandish claims about sex and gender is the kind or right thing to do. Especially if you don’t or don’t want to realize how prevalent sex-based violence actually is.
Edit: this also lends itself to a lot of virtue signaling, for obvious reasons.
I agree with this. I think another part of it is that young women are often very naive about human nature and how much society is driven by male sexuality.
Well said!
We really need a lot more education about sex-based violence so that maybe more of these dumb handmaidens will wake up!
Some haven't met many TIMs and think they're all super femme gay men. Just as they worship drag queens and "the gays" they are fiercely protective of these guys.
But I find a lot of them really believe that removing biological sex removes sexism. They think they've solved misogyny. I've seen some learn the error of their thinking in a brutal way.
This is my mother. She thinks there's no difference between my gay cousin and his husband and a TIM.
When I asked her if she felt comfortable sharing a bathroom or locker room with a trans woman who is sexually attracted to women she looked really confused and asked for clarification on whether we were talking about the "same kind of person". It didn't occur to her that some of these dudes are straight and would get off on being in the presence of women in intimate settings.
So many excellent comments here!
I don't have much to add, but I think in the US anyway, as our politics have become more polarized, it is very important to some to stick with their tribe.
If you are opposed to biological males in locker rooms or in girl's sports or women's prisons it is because you are (pick one or all or add others!):
A religious nut! a right-wing nut! a Fox news junky! uninformed and uneducated (biology is so much more complicated than you can understand!), you hate gay people! MAGA! you are fixated on genitals!
But whatever the reason: YOU ARE NOT IN MY TRIBE! I DON'T NEED TO LISTEN TO YOU, YOU HATEFUL BIGOT! Because if I listen to you and change my mind, I might lose my tribe.
We need TERF/Radfem courses taught in college. Women’s “gender studies” has been hijacked by queer theory be-kind nonsense and is a big TRA maker. Universities need a major overhaul for women’s studies. Kick out the dimwitted libfems and handmaidens, bring in the Helen Joyce’s, JKR’s and Kara Dansky’s of the world to teach courses. Maybe then we’ll get some true female empowerment going on 💪
As an ex-handmaiden:
They may still believe that sex and gender are decoupled. In other words, they may believe that there is the biological realm (male and female) and the social/psychological/neurological realm ('man' and 'woman'). I thought that surely NOBODY would say that female people aren't oppressed on the basis of being female. In other words, that you could advocate for both sex and gender identity at the same time. One of the things that made me peak was realizing that trans activists, and ESPECIALLY TIMs, basically wanted to erase the distinction between sex. They either had the argument that sex is totally irrelevant and only gender identity matters, or the argument that you can change sex, so TIMs can also be discriminated against as 'females'. Regardless of how many euphemisms for sex they came up with (AFAB/AMAB), you were never supposed to use them to suggest that AFAB (female) people had particular struggles AMAB people did not. I was very naive and thought this was a minority position until eventually it became impossible to talk about female issues without being accused of being a TERF. Many people who are not very online like me may still be under the impression that "nobody is saying female people don't face special struggles." I wouldn't have seen it if I hadn't been very active on Tumblr.
I believed that the brain sex research showed that there is a biological basis for gender dysphoria and transgender identity, and it would be cruel as well as pointless to ignore the treatment. I believed that gender affirmation improved the mental health of transgender people. As such, I felt that it was a scientific aspect to it and that I was fighting for a group of people who were, in a way, mentally ill but who had this incredible treatment that could make them feel better. So I basically thought that there existed a psychological condition - gender dysphoria - that would cause the person agony. If everyone around me started saying I was a man suddenly, I would probably also feel a little crazy. So I thought - we didn't have the knowledge before to recognize this was an important aspect of human dimension, why not incorporate it into society today? I didn't know about the issues with the brain sex studies and I didn't know how sex was defined.
The earliest advocacy for transgender people that I encountered showed the most pitiable people in constant agony. They'd interview someone who 'always felt different' and talk about how awful their life was and now they feel so much better, and look how easy it is, all it takes is some hormones and for them to dress how they want, and they just have a brain condition where they unfortunately got a brain with the wrong body map inside! There was this whole thing to it about how these people were suffering so much, the (false) statistics about how trans women are at such a high rate of being killed, that it felt like kicking a puppy.
So for a lot of handmaidens, we were basically underinformed. We were told this was this new scientific knowledge that revealed a critical aspect of human psychology that had been ignored for decades. We were told not to worry, that sex and gender identity was separate, and nobody wants to de-emphasize sex; we just want to include gender identity! And if you were still skeptical (as I was), they short-circuited you by showing you the saddest, most pitiable trans-identified people, and then showing how happy and fulfilled they were and how right they felt, and made you feel like a monster for daring to be skeptical.
If you never encounter the people arguing that centering 'AFAB people' is transmisogynistic, or you never encounter the research that the violence against TIMs applies to black and hispanic TIMs in prostitution in Brazil, if you never read the issues with the whole concept of brain sex, if you're only ever presented with these cases of suicidal and self-harming people... it can be easy to think that there is a lot of evidence in favor of biological gender identity and that nobody is really coming for women's spaces and look at how sad these people are! Unfortunately, I don't know if there's a good way to make people realize this without coming across it themselves. Reduxx honestly reminds me of Breitbart with the way they find every single bad TIP and display them. As someone from a scapegoated minority group, they really didn't convince me at all.
There were many things that made me peak, but they had to do with my experience: my nagging feeling that a lot of TIFs really had severe internalized misogyny as opposed to a 'genuine' male identity; my annoyance that many things that used to be normal were suddenly 'TERF rhetoric'; my obsessive worry that I didn't have a good model of what sex and gender identity; the disgust I felt when transbians posted a gross, sexualized caricature of women and my rage when criticizing this was called 'transphobic'. Eventually it got really hard to ignore that TIMs acted just like men and TIFs acted just like women, and that TIMs (especially transbians) weaponized their status as 'the most marginalized and vulnerable' to get women to shut up. But that was because I was heavily involved in super trans-heavy spaces. Your average handmaiden is either not that involved in trans-heavy spaces, or doesn't care about the issues I mentioned for them to think about. They think they're doing something brave and good.
Yup. Straight up misinformation has so much to do with this. In fact, I interacted with a detrans male on reddit once. Still a typical narcissist, as one would expect, and believed since he "passed" for several years that he had a right to mansplain womanhood. Hated that guy. Anyway, someone was asking about handmaidens and he went on a misogynistic rant about how women buy this because we're stupid, and when I brought up misinformation to him he told me I was "erasing women's agency".
When I asked him if misinformation has nothing to do with this why did HE fall for it all to the point of transitioning and id-ing as female, he got very, very pissed at me and said I was "personally attacking" him.
Yea but this was the 2016 Lavern Cox fluffy shit. How are these young women still advocates when the veil has fallen and we've all seen how creepy and annoying they are. The biggest trans social media figure right now just goes around harassing wait staff over pronouns and the other one raped his own elderly mom. Like when are they gonna wrap this up?
You forget because we are so steeped in this subject that other people aren't. It's still 2016 when it comes to this in a lot of people's minds. And the misinformation is still out there, like the Cass Review supposedly being "debunked", so if they even hear about something like that (which is a big if) if they don't dig deeper it's easy to believe it's "right wing misinformation".
Yep! I point this out all the time here.
All of us are very concerned about this issue and likely pretty terminally online (how else would you be here?) So we know so much more about this than the average person off the street. Most people don’t want to know the details, quite frankly especially because in the case of left/liberal leaning people, they don’t want to accidentally learn too much and develop the “wrong” opinion. They accept what they’re told, because not doing that would put their social lives in jeopardy.
I mean how many people have actually read JKR’s famous tweet(s)?
Because not everyone keeps up with all this stuff? I literally had never heard of the TIM who harasses waitstaff until I went on GC spaces. The average person doesn't know about that person, or Gretchen Felker-Martin, or Jessica Yaniv, or that guy who wore a giant silicone prosthetic to school. Maybe they know about Dylan Mulvaney (and one of my friends, who's a huge TRA, told the group chat that she thought he was 'annoying' and 'fake') and they roll their eyes but give him leeway because "it's really hard to have gender dysphoria and Dylan's acting out because they're new to all this." They really don't think about it as much as we do, they just updated their mental model to "we gotta protect lesbians and gays, and also trans people, they're related to lesbians and gays."
They also fall for the "no true Scotsman" fallacy. If they even hear of these deranged TIMs they think it's the exception, not the rule.
because the veil hasn't really fallen all that much, for plenty of people who are still mired in the thick of pro-trans propaganda and social pressure to support trans ideology. so much of TIPs' (well, more specifically, TIMs') bad behavior is swept under the rug and your average TRA-aligned person is not aware at all about that stuff, similar to what the other reply to your comment said. they think TIPs are harmless victims who need their support and protection/defense of.
In my opinion....this is mostly spread through social media. The (mostly) younger people use their phones to connect with others in an attempt to belong to the bigger tribe they see as having more relevance. The influencers seem to be a powerful magnet.
I also think many of the young don't have the confidence, intelligence, communication or experience to process & understand the consequences of what is happening to women.
As a 66yo mother & grandmother I can't believe the stupidity of it all.
Yea you'd think with social media being so prevalent that people would be MORE eager to connect over material reality
That's like saying with McDonalds on every corner kids would be more eager to eat broccoli.
One is fast and fun and brightly colored and releases dopamine. One requires effort.
I just can't with all the ones who pretend a five foot tall martial artist can effortlessly throw six foot men over her shoulder. This is a dangerous belief for women to hold. When they learn the truth about how much physically weaker they are compared to men, it may be too late.
Believing that men also have painful, bloody, embarrassing periods makes it more acceptable for women to have this issue.
This is their logic for decoupling womanhood from female biology. Because when you do this decoupling, you can pretend that men also have these shameful burdens. The shame therefore becomes lessened when it becomes a “people problem” rather than a gross inferior woman problem.
Handmaidens and TIFs both think like this.
I don't think it's anything past Jerry Smith voice I'm a good person, I'm a good person! TAKE MY PENIS
Like they're just all terrified of being unlikeable or being "a bad person" so they parrot and clap whatever is popular because it saves them socially
i hate sheep mentality
I think it’s fear. While the climate of fear drove some people to peaking, others desperately wanted to affirm that they’re part of the in group by being vicious to anyone who made a misstep. It feels more secure to be a part of the mob.
Are they just pretending and parroting what they believe is the correct opinion to have?
One thing I notice about TRA rhetoric online is how often the tone is intensely smug and dismissive without actually making or refuting any argument. You can see this in the vapid popularity of “X exists” discourse.
Intersex people exist, so…we can’t identify male people as male?
Masculine trans women exist, so…no trans women are performing sexist stereotypes?
Infertile cis women exist, so…we don’t ever need to mention that only female people bear children?
Gynecomastia exists, so…a cosmetic double-mastectomy is an appropriate medical response to psychological distress in middle school girls?
Some cis lesbians date trans women, so…it’s acceptable for male people to suppress discussion of female same-sex attraction in lesbian spaces?
Tall cis women exist, so…that obviously male man isn’t obviously male?
Ad nauseam. This sort of framing is intended to suggest that people who ask questions about obvious weak-points in the ideology are not only morally suspect but also wildly ignorant…and it is then easy to derail into the new topic that “exists” and away from whatever valid concern is actually being raised.
If you approach the conversation from the assumption that the other side is talking in good faith, they will steamroll you with bad-faith arguments and shaming tactics as soon as you open your mouth.
Ad nauseam. This sort of framing is intended to suggest that people who ask questions about obvious weak-points in the ideology are not only morally suspect but also wildly ignorant…and it is then easy to derail into the new topic that “exists” and away from whatever valid concern is actually being raised.
this is kind of similar to something I said in one of my comments -- that I think a lot of TRA-aligned people simply haven't thought very deeply about what various elements of trans ideology actually mean.
they just support "trans rights" in a general, overall sense because they think it's the right thing to do. so they repeat whatever applicable TRA mantras without any deeper critical thinking about the specifics and/or the implications of various elements of trans ideology.
They are still in their appeasing men phase.
I wouldn't assume there is widespread support. Some very vocal campus agitators and media promoter types might give that illusion. Their tactics are bullying and shaming.
Girls and women still approach a lot of high-conflict situations with avoidance and silence. They rightly fear backlash and ostracism affecting their social connections and work opportunities.
these are all good questions.
What's going on? What's the psychology? I don't understand. Im not even close to understanding it. I can't fathom it. Are they just stupid? What's going on?!
I've wondered about things that are kind of adjacent to the stuff you mention in your post.
for me, it's not so much the parts about why handmaidens support various elements of trans ideology, like "why do they insist womanhood is just a performance?" but more of a general "what drives someone [including, but not limited to, handmaidens] to go out of their way to support and promote trans ideology?"
why does trans ideology specifically induce such fervor among TRAs? like, this is The Issue that TRAs want to be very clear and obvious about their support for it. I constantly see proclamations from TRAs online where they're doing some sort of ~ * ~ virtue twerking about twanz ~ * ~.
I think for a lot of TRA-aligned people, they simply haven't thought very deeply about the core tenets of trans ideology and what all that actually means. supporting trans ideology in a general, overall sense is just something they basically see as a given/default due to how much pro-trans propaganda they are being surrounded by.
I also think there's a lot of reflexive defensiveness of trans ideology from TRAs because from their perspective, they only see criticism of trans ideology from conservative media/politicians, and they are automatically primed to dismiss all that as wrong and bigoted.
in other words, they think: anti-trans = conservative = anti-trans = bad, bigoted, other nasty stuff. there is simply no possibility in their minds that someone could oppose trans ideology for gender critical feminist reasons instead of "oh, they're just a backwards bigoted transphobe". to be fair, the vast majority of opposition to trans ideology in the US is coming from conservatives, and for non-feminist reasons.
even if gender critical reasoning is explained to a TRA, they still might not be able to see that it's coming from a different motivation than the conservative anti-trans perspective. a TRA thinks that any and all opposition to trans ideology is inherently conservative in motivation, as I described above. so it's easy for them to write it off mentally and not seriously consider that GC people might actually be right.
this still doesn't fully explain "why are they so goddamned fervent about supporting trans ideology?" there were some past discussions where I speculated more about that part. this Aldous Huxley quote was involved https://www.goodreads.com/quotes/95413-the-surest-way-to-work-up-a-crusade-in-favor
iirc, I said things like being a TRA is apparently very integral to some people's perception of themselves as a good person. or rather, being seen by others as a TRA is very integral... - it's not enough to just support it quietly, to yourself.
I think there's some kind of external validation factor at play here, which is the part that's most puzzling to me since it's not something I can relate to. although I didn't outright disagree with trans ideology pre-peaking, I never saw it as something I needed to be very loud and overt about supporting.
it's really late here so I hope at least some of all that made sense!
Part of that befuddling external validation factor may br the warped mindset of people who grew up on social media, where everything is about cultivating your personal brand and all that horseshit. Like turbo-charged middle school cliques that consume people's lives into the ages that used to mark adulthood.
They want a socially-approved excuse to bully people. There is no deeper reason beyond that. If this were 30-something years ago, then they would be on the Religious Right hectoring parents about kids listening to Ozzy Osbourne and reading Harry Potter books.
But I'm talking about going women and girls though. seems like the 15-25 crowd is really into this shit and it's like how could this possibly be benefiting them?? Also they're usually arguing with us older folks about it, so it's not like they can bully us. I just don't know what they stand to gain from turning woman = adult human female into a silly antiquated notion
Young Women have been trained to believe that supporting trans shit is a brave act of resistance against those in power or capitalism or whatever. They're too dumb to realize that the whole gender movement is fueled by billionaires and could not exist without capitalism
Younger women have been raised being told they can do anything and haven’t hit as much sexism yet
Honestly? I think there is a fun element to it. People dressing up in costumes is fun. I think it is a bit like being part of a play or Halloween party for them.
Internalized misogyny? A way of subconsciously coping with the fact that males will never, ever, ever just leave us the fuck alone? Seriously that dumb that they think putting on a dress means a man is less dangerous? I mean, let's be real, people are fucking dumb, and that includes a lot of women.
I don't know, I wish I knew.
I also think the misinformation factor plays a huge role in people not peaking and people do discount that. They don't even realize these men are fetishists.
The shitty behavior of men (which is nearly all their behavior) is taught to them via the male socialization they are inculcate with from the day they are born.
Womens' acceptance of, and reinforcement of, male behavior is taught to girls from the day they are born and relentlessly hammered into women every day of our lives.
They hate themselves and are grateful that a man would want to be one of them
Massive internalised misogyny and inferiority complex is all I can come up with.
I think there are different motives. For some it's about being "kind". For others, it's about feeling virtuous. Some have been convinced by the echo chamber in media (social and mainstream) over the past few years.
The conflating of transgender with gay/lesbian has been hugely successful. Many people simply assume that you can only support both or neither.
"Many people simply assume that you can only support both or neither."
THIS. I had a conversation with a lesbian friend of mine last year where she was just barely starting to peak, and as she put it, "I want to support members of my community, but... don't take the word woman from us," etc. etc.
Once you've bought the lie that the T and the LGB are members of the same community, there's a big obstacle to peaking. That's the REASON for the forced teaming.
Maladaptive altruism
Toxic femininity
Edit: thought of another one: internalized misogyny that they're trying (and failing) to process by externalizing it