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Since I made my post about being a bra store owner and how TIMs treat women in my industry I have a few updates.

During the pandemic we have switched to a system where most days of the week we operate by appointment only. Since we have started this system EVERY SINGLE TIM who has made an appointment has not shown up. EVERY SINGLE ONE! You may be wondering how I know the people who are standing us up are TIMs, it's because they tell us when booking the appointment. Some say they are Trans and some say they are Trans women, so some may be TIFs but I really doubt that because why would they be shopping in my store that sells women's lingerie?

Because bra fitting appointments are so hard to book less than 5% of the women who book appointments with us don't show up for their appointments. And of those 5% who miss their appointments about 80% apologizes afterwards for not coming to the appointment and books a new appointment. It's very telling to me that Transwomen are just so much more inconsiderate of our time that women are.

The second thing I wanted to report was a conversation I had with another bra store owner. I told her about how badly transwomen often treated me in my store. She told me that she found transwomen polite and respectful. I was surprised and then she said: "Well, a lot of them have shown me their penises. No woman has ever done anything like that." (Edited to add: I think she just needed me to push her a little to notice a pattern. She had heard the mantras of TWAW for so long that she didn't want to paint them with the same brush and was trying her hardest to see them as women, but after I started talking about things I had experienced she either started realizing a pattern of disrespect or she felt more comfortable talking about it.) It should be noted that there is no reason for anybody ever to take off their underwear in a bra store. Even if you are trying on underwear you would leave your own on. Then she said: "Sometimes they ejaculate on the clothing or the changeroom walls."

TIMs being TIMs. Men being men.

Since I made [my post about being a bra store owner and how TIMs treat women in my industry](https://ovarit.com/o/GenderCritical/21098/after-20-years-of-being-a-bra-fitter-i-slowly-peaked-how-tims-treat-bra-fitters) I have a few updates. During the pandemic we have switched to a system where most days of the week we operate by appointment only. Since we have started this system EVERY SINGLE TIM who has made an appointment has not shown up. EVERY SINGLE ONE! You may be wondering how I know the people who are standing us up are TIMs, it's because they tell us when booking the appointment. Some say they are Trans and some say they are Trans women, so some may be TIFs but I really doubt that because why would they be shopping in my store that sells women's lingerie? Because bra fitting appointments are so hard to book less than 5% of the women who book appointments with us don't show up for their appointments. And of those 5% who miss their appointments about 80% apologizes afterwards for not coming to the appointment and books a new appointment. It's very telling to me that Transwomen are just so much more inconsiderate of our time that women are. The second thing I wanted to report was a conversation I had with another bra store owner. I told her about how badly transwomen often treated me in my store. She told me that she found transwomen polite and respectful. I was surprised and then she said: "Well, a lot of them have shown me their penises. No woman has ever done anything like that." (Edited to add: I think she just needed me to push her a little to notice a pattern. She had heard the mantras of TWAW for so long that she didn't want to paint them with the same brush and was trying her hardest to see them as women, but after I started talking about things I had experienced she either started realizing a pattern of disrespect or she felt more comfortable talking about it.) It should be noted that there is no reason for anybody ever to take off their underwear in a bra store. Even if you are trying on underwear you would leave your own on. Then she said: "Sometimes they ejaculate on the clothing or the changeroom walls." TIMs being TIMs. Men being men.

145 comments

A neighbour runs a wig shop that is patronised partly by cancer patients who have lost their hair, and partly by the community of very religious Jewish women in the area who cover their natural hair with wigs. A couple of years ago she started getting TIMs, and as usually it Ruins Everything. While there isn't nudity involved as with bras, Jewish women who are that religious cannot uncover their hair in front of men outside their family; and cancer patients are often incredibly uncomfortable and self-conscious having their heads exposed, particularly around men.

Add in that these are fetishists, with stubble and 'girldique,' who interrupt women discreetly looking for a flattering religious hair covering, or a wig to help them look like their old and healthy selves, by demanding flattery and positive feedback. It's repulsive. She's shifted to doing by-appointment only, and the excuse is that this way shoppers only have her in the small shop with them, but it's really the TIMs. With women she knows, they're often fine having other women shopping at the same time. She also has started telling the known TIMs that she's happy to make an appointment, she's fully booked for the next 8 weeks but can fit them in at 8 am on a Saturday in February, will that do?

They are so shameless and so gross and I dearly wish she could just say "this store is for women only."

Wow, that is horrible. I feel for her and for the women who have been made to feel uncomfortable before her changing her policy. Appointments have really helped me avoid TIMs. I hope that it helps her too.

I would ban them from the store and post their picture in the windows with the words "BANNED FOR EJACULATING ON MERCHANDISE"

UGH That gives me 'Nam flashbacks of when I worked at a video store and had to check the adult room sometimes. Literally j*zz on every part of the walls that weren't taken up by shelving.🤢

We need to normalize a dick guillotine for coomers I stg.

Pedos? Bisect the Bastard Pornsick weirdos? Nip the tip Incels? Crop the slop Rapists? Slice to the stem

For dudes that can't help but jerk it in public, orchiectomies would be a good start.

(Also, fun side note: Firefox does not recognize orchiectomy/orchiectomies as a word and instead recommends hysterectomies. Lovely.)

I don't disagree with it. _^ Let's stop the problem where it starts.

Exactly! Be honest about it. I understand as a business owner that they need their clientele though and that can be challenging. But the more we detail their behavior the more people see it for what it is. Sunlight is the best disinfectant.

Some of them would get off on that kind of humiliation,. because sadly there is a fetish for everything.

Gray rock them! It's the only way to deal with narcissists. You starve them of their narcissistic supply, you cut off the addiction at the source.

What is the grey rock method?

Wouldn't grey rock in this context simply entail not doing anything?

Grey rock is only useful in a one to one context where its possible for the victim to ignore the narc. Its also not the only strategy for dealing with them.

HOW is it “polite” and “respectful” for men to pull out their dicks in front of unsuspecting women and ejaculate all over clothes in stores?!? Why did she say such a thing?!? Those are sex crimes.

As for the TIMs skipping appointments... it’s a blessing. You don’t have to deal with aforementioned things then.

Seriously... it’s so disgusting that AGPs have taken over the world. The minute they do that on women’s clothing, it makes it unsalvageable and unsellable. I would make the TIMs pay for it, but we all know they wouldn’t, and they’d run out of the store.

I think she was thinking about a few that had been polite to her. But then the more she thought about it she remembered these other things that had happened too.

I would tell her about AGP and show her the sexual crimes these men have committed.

/o/thisneverhappens

www.womenarehuman.com

Maybe send her an Ovarit invite code too, at least when she seems ready?

Next conversation I will. We had a 3 hour conversation and I know she is peaked and not going back.

also biohazards who knows what STDs they have

Yeah I’m confused how that works because you can’t wash retail and you also shouldn’t sell it with body fluids on it…

Lol, I'm a trained bra fitter (trained age 17-19) with theory first and began fitting age 18.
We were near a cosmetic clinic and even back then (10 yrs ago) wed get men in with their new fakies.
When I was still 17, my manager put up a sign stating it's not acceptable to request a specific person fit you, as I was on the booking desk, and these men would ask if I could do their appointment as the other women were "all a bit old".
Aaaand.. I'm gonna store this memory as #782 under "Things which should have peaked me at the time, but somehow didn't."

Exactly!!!! Took me way too long to peak and my friend too. You need to get that push which is why I make a point to peak as many people as possible.

Ugh that’s disgusting. So glad your manager protected you. She should have booted those pervs out of the store.

Then she said: "Sometimes they ejaculate on the clothing or the changeroom walls."

🤢

Politely and respectfully, of course.

Please scream inside your hearts.

[–] Gladys_Kravitz 19 points Edited

I feel like "polite and respectful" is quickly going to become a GC meme.

That’s just whack behavior that would warrant someone getting ejected from any store. Who does this?!

Start charging a reservation fee? Oh, and the other bra store owner has a really fucked up definition of "polite" and "respectful".

A reservation fee that is then taken out of whatever you buy... so if the fee is $10, you get $10 off your purchase.

I wouldn't even do that. Just charge a fee if they don't show up, same as highly exclusive restaurants. Charging a fee and only giving it back if someone buys something might scare off legitimate customers. There have been times I haven't been able to find anything in a lingerie store since my size is apparently one of the most common, and they were all sold out.

Maybe it could be like the quarter slot in some supermarket carts. You get the money back if you go to the appointment - it's just an incentive not to be inconsiderate. It wouldn't matter if you don't purchase anything because as long as you show up, you've done what you were supposed to do.

If you’ve been properly fitted during that time, it’s worth the deposit though. Then you can always go back when they have other styles in, or they can order your size for you.

This. Bridal stores do it 🤷🏻‍♀️

and piercers! this is good for anything that involves setting aside time for clients, sterilizing, and precious/intimate materials

Get a credit card, take pictures, and charge a missed appointment/clean up fee.

Most people think if men aren’t in the act of directly injuring, maiming, killing, or raping someone (or at least not a child), then they are literal angelic saints.

I am actually totally fine with them not showing up. I'm just glad that they keep identifying themselves so I know not to expect them or I know what to expect if they do come. I was actually asking my male friend who has a store close to mine to check in on us when we had TIMs book (but they never showed up so it was never needed).

Sounds totally polite and respectful. I like to ejaculate on the wall when I go to tea at the Ritz. It's just good manners. Don't you think, ladies?

[–] Nibaiz 38 points Edited

Of course! It just means that you were so happy to be there that you experienced euphoria!

/s

I want to puke.

Only as long as you keep that pinky finger raised high.

Never been to a public place I didn’t ejaculate tbh, I thought it was more normal than breathing??

[–] LOriginedumonde 40 points Edited

She told me that she found transwomen polite and respectful.

then she said: "Well, a lot of them have shown me their penises. No woman has ever done anything like that."

Then she said: "Sometimes they ejaculate on the clothing or the changeroom walls."

….Brainwashing is fucking scary, gyns. I sincerely hope that she took photos and gave security camera footage to the police. Great job OP for helping her to realize that this behavior is not okay.

polite and respectful

Okay

ejaculate on the clothing or the changeroom walls

Make it make sense?

It was like a lightbulb went off when she actually thought about it.

It really goes to show she doesn't think of them as women. If women were getting their bodily fluids on the walls or flashing her employees, she would've thought something was off.

I know. I read that line about them ejaculating (!?) on new clothes and the changing room walls and was gobsmacked. How on earth is this normal? Or womanly? I can’t imagine any woman, any woman masturbating to orgasm in that situation. Her experience needs to go on this never happens.

And bra fitting is very hard to find. It’s a service and a valuable and rare one. Plus, not all companies are using the same metrics. I only recently learned that the measurement right at the top of your breasts is a thing. Not just the fullest part and your rib cage under your breasts. I was trying to measure my bestie. Then I almost immediately learned that this measurement is considered old fashioned and isn’t used by some of the more modern companies. I think you should start charging TIMs a fee, payable at the time of making the appointment. It would either scare them off or reimburse you the smallest bit for whatever abuse you have to endure.

Ejaculating on the walls. You just know that it isn’t a man having to clean that up.

[–] Nediljka_Orwell PITA crone 30 points

I'll bet, LOL. Insta-Peak!

Granted, clothing retailers are used to all kinds of odd behavior occurring in changing rooms, but having to clean up ejaculate? Or write off ejaculate soiled items? That's new and unacceptable territory for female undergarment sellers. (Super EW.)

Not so new. I personally have always cautiously helped transvestites or crossdressers or whatever they were called at the time and this happened from time to time. Some women's clothing stores will not allow men to try on things. Just new that we have to call the men that do these things women and if we decide to not let them try on things we are called bigots.

Someone once changed their adult diaper in the change rooms at the store I worked at, then they discreetly threw it in the garbage behind the cash. I'm really glad I wasn't working that day. We also had a serial masturbator that had to have the police called because he wouldn't leave the mens room after he was asked to leave the change rooms.

Wait. Wait. Wait. She actually said all that and hadn't hit peak peak??? How could she use any combination of those words together and still say they've been polite????

I was there too. I had had these disgusting experiences and it took me ages to make the connections and not feel guilty.

URGH, it took me so long to stop being a doormat and admit that the TIMs in my group therapy who always wanted to talk about “euphoria,” and claim to be “lesbians” even they described graphic sexual stuff with men were being out of line. It’s obvious it’s a fetish and they rely on normal people silencing themselves to make their whack behavior seem normal

My ex boyfriend STILL tries to tell me my opinion on this is “generalizing” and it’s “not all of them” and wants there to be room in my thoughts to accommodate some TiMs. The other day he called me (we catch up sometimes) and told me he met a TiM at his school (they’re both studying to become social workers and therapists LOL) and “she” told him about being raped the first day they met. He (my ex) invited him to a dinner with two girl friends from his program, and he was like “I don’t know, about this particular person you may have a point…because when we were out to dinner “she” was sharing a lot of personal stuff and super hyper and excited when the topic was on “her” life and “her” struggles but anytime anyone else talked “she” just slumped down into the seat and stayed on “her” phone”

I was just like “yeah”.

Right?? I think women need to stop with the constant pity. It's all based on feeling sorry for people who are mentally unstable with antisocial personality disorders. We view them as too sick or stupid to improve themselves, so we coo gently and try to "manage" them instead.

Some combination of fear and denial.

And sheer stupidity.

Not stupidity. I know this woman. She was just trying to be kind and not judge all TWs by the actions of some TWs. She just needed a ear that wouldn't call her a transphobe to listen and help her connect the dots.

I don’t know. A lot of women who have been sexually assaulted or violated do not realize the gravity of what happened until they speak with someone who validates the trauma they’ve been subjected to. It’s female socialization to always make us second guess ourselves, especially when people are constantly shouting us down as bigots whenever we speak our truth.

[–] Yemaya 20 points Edited

These men are gross and the perverts we’ve always heard about and been warned about but they get to hide because being “transgender”. It’s so rage inducing.

it is a good thing that they don’t show up so you don’t have to deal with their asses. I hate that they waste your time at all though.

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