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I encountered a thread titled: what is the biggest problem affecting the (sic) most men today.

https://archive.ph/06Qox

The top answers were:

1) lack of purpose 2) loneliness and mental health 3) economics

I read so many comments where men blamed society at large for making men feel unnecessary and for making them feel like they have no inherent value beyond their physical strength, their income, and what they can bring to the table. All of it made me chuckle.

Firstly, society at large has always commodities every individual. Perhaps your family and friends value you for who you are as an individual, but most people in society couldn't give two shits. That's just how we are as humans. These are the same men who would reduce women to a number from 0 to 10 or classify us as either "fuckable" or "not fuckable."

Secondly, the only reason that you men are now feeling the sting of this societal rejection is because women don't need you anymore to survive, at least not in most western countries. You can disguise it behind "society" but we all know that at the heart of it it's because women now have the ability to make their own income and don't HAVE to be with men that y'all are freaking out over not having "societal" approval.

The lack of awareness of the society that they've helped to create and all the self-pity is definitely a sight to behold. Otherwise this is all just too pathetic to behold.

I encountered a thread titled: what is the biggest problem affecting the (sic) most men today. https://archive.ph/06Qox The top answers were: 1) lack of purpose 2) loneliness and mental health 3) economics I read so many comments where men blamed society at large for making men feel unnecessary and for making them feel like they have no inherent value beyond their physical strength, their income, and what they can bring to the table. All of it made me chuckle. Firstly, society at large has always commodities every individual. Perhaps your family and friends value you for who you are as an individual, but most people in society couldn't give two shits. That's just how we are as humans. These are the same men who would reduce women to a number from 0 to 10 or classify us as either "fuckable" or "not fuckable." Secondly, the only reason that you men are now feeling the sting of this societal rejection is because women don't need you anymore to survive, at least not in most western countries. You can disguise it behind "society" but we all know that at the heart of it it's because women now have the ability to make their own income and don't HAVE to be with men that y'all are freaking out over not having "societal" approval. The lack of awareness of the society that they've helped to create and all the self-pity is definitely a sight to behold. Otherwise this is all just too pathetic to behold.

72 comments

Do any of these men whining about feeling unvalued actually do anything of value for anyone else? Not even in a career-minded way, but just socially? Are they generous with their time and effort? Do they offer quality support? Furthermore, do they express their appreciation for the things of value other people do for them? The sheer number of women in the US right now who just spent weeks of planning and days of prep work assembling a feast for their families who weren't even thanked for it by their male relatives. And then cleaned up afterwards while those same male relatives relaxed. Hell, men who extend even a modicum of effort towards helping or even just acknowledging "women's work" tend to get doted on; there are people who practically throw them a parade for it.

Instead of putting the work in, they just complain that women are no longer being made as artificially dependent on them so they need to actually put in the effort to bring something real to the table instead of being praised just for showing up. And so many are so eager to find the 'solution' in stripping away our autonomy again to appease their feelings/egos.

Related, the thing that always kills me about men whining about not having the kinds of friendships women do is that's such a them-problem. We literally cannot help them with that. No one can just give them that. "Society" or 'the government' can't just give them that. The thing standing in their way is their own behavior towards other men and/or not being able to find one single other man willing or able to create the kinds of friendships they covet. 'Men's relationships with each other suck, women must be to blame...somehow.'

Also dudes, the validation you're seeking isn't found in trying to one-up everyone around you, but in being a genuine team player. Be the person that helps others accomplish the things they set out to achieve, and accept their help in return. Support the people you care about without a hidden agenda or turning it into a quid pro quo negotiation.

[–] kewlgayl 4 points Edited

^ This so much. Very well articulated. The Thanksgiving part hit home so hard as I come from a male-dominated family where my mom and I (the females) are responsible for preparing the food and no one else offers to help us decorate, cook, bring a dish, pay for food expenses, or clean. They come, they eat, they relax, they stay til the wee hours of the morning, and then they leave.

Whenever my aunt and female cousin from my Dad’s side of the family come over though, they always bring a dish and offer to help clean up.

The responsibility was my grandmother’s before she passed and my Mom took over. I know one thing, when my mom retires hosting family holidays, I will not be taking over.

Men will put literally zero effort into maintaining their relationships or even doing basic self care FOR THEMSELVES, only to turn around and cry about how "No one cares about men."

Bro, YOU don't even care!

And it's not even that you don't care about other men's mental health, you don't even care enough to care for your OWN mental health.

You see the same men complaining men don’t get support, boasting about how male friends can spend two hours together alone and when The Wife asks how his family is doing you have nothing to say.

Maybe start amongst yourselves?? Why don’t they think to support their male friends emotionally?

What they really mean with this claim is “I want an emotional support woman and the fact that my father and grandfather had it and I don’t is unfair and a civil rights issue”

Hell, some men are so uninvolved with their own families they don't even have an answer to "how is your family doing" other than "they're good."

Some men can't even remember what grades their kids are in! And then they pout because they don't know why their kids favor their mom over them-- I wonder why????

[–] kewlgayl 5 points Edited

Omg YES. My dad gets in his feelings sometimes about how I’m close with my Mom and not him, but then he: acts like a man child, rages about things constantly, gets upset if you give him constructive criticism about his actions and bruise his ego, doesn’t help my mom with cooking or cleaning and thinks that‘s my job as a woman, constantly asks my mom, me, or my brother to do things for him while he relaxes (yells your name “[I know you’re an entire room over, but] could you come hand me my water bottle [that’s a few feet away from me but I don’t feel like getting up to get]?”), and barely knows anything about me.

Now I admit, I don’t talk to him much because it takes too much energy, so that’s part of why he doesn’t know a lot about me. But maybe I would if he didn’t talk over me two sentences in and change the topic about him. I mean, how do you even have any type of relationship with someone like that.

He doesn’t have many friends either because he spends all his time, when he’s not out running errands, in the house watching TV.

Exactly. It’s not like moms are automatically the preferred parent— I’ve seen a dynamic where dad is great and stern but kind which is nice, but sometimes this is at the expense of mom being a little more demanding or high-strung. It’s that kids know which parent to go to for real support, when things get ugly and scary and you need help. Usually it’s mom who has invested the requisite patience, love, and effort and as a result has a child that trusts her.

Posts like those just remind me that many guys really won't ever see women as equals, as autonomous humans that are capable of feeling complex emotions. They act like these basic feelings are exclusively male problems. Plenty of women struggle, but instead of feeling empathy, they just call women bitches or psychos. But then we're supposed to feel pity or empathy for them when they have issues, and hold their hand while they go through their rough patch? I'm pretty over it.

Yup! We're just expected to suck it up. And none of us go kill anyone or write manifestos about how we want to assault and kill.

That’s always my biggest takeaway too. As if women can’t know lack of purpose, loneliness, mental health struggles, or financial stress post-covid.

I don’t feel pity for them however we get a sense of identity from other roles in life (not that that’s better), at least traditionally, because we’re better at managing relationships

They’re like worker bees with no tasks to accomplish

[–] Pixietree 8 points Edited

Actually they are drones (beekeeper here), the male drones don't do anything but eat honey, find a queen bee to mate with then die.

The worker bees (wich are female) will always find a way to help the hive and the queen. Also the queen bee will do whatever she can to help the hive stay strong. They help each other. If the queen isn't doing what she needs to keep the hive strong the worker bees will supersede her.

I'm still pretty new to beekeeping, but it's been a fun and rewarding experience. Bees are like the ultimate matriarch, they are awesome.

Edit: I forgot to mention that the drones get kicked out of the hive during the winter. Since they don't benefit anything to the hive other then reproduction during the late spring.

Men define manhood as subjugating women. They may not put it in those words to themselves, but their self-concept is about superiority to and dominion over someone - and it used to be much easier to assert that over a woman.

Now they're in a world where women may be their authorities in the workplace and they have to be appealing in some way to acquire a girlfriend or woman. Instead of adapting to this new era, they've just flailed and failed and blamed women for their problems.

And a lot of their loneliness and mental health issues stem from toxic masculinity. They're the ones who betray and degrade the women they "love." If I lived a life of lies where I watched painful porn but insisted it was healthy and respectful, future-faked to sleep with women and then dumped them, if I betrayed my wife and showed her nudes to my friends to score man points, and told my sobbing daughter it was her fault for being raped - yeah, my mental health would be utter shit too. Men can't be honest with themselves about their moral caliber but deep down they know the women in their lives would never love them if those women knew how they really thought and acted. No shit that's lonely.

It's more than that. Men who feel an urgent need to dominate women directly are men who have failed to dominate other men. They have a mutual gentlemen's agreement with every other member of their sex that lording it over women is an acceptable substitute for lording it over men. We're the consolation prize. And now they don't even have that, so the bottom rung's broken out from under them.

And a lot of their loneliness and mental health issues stem from toxic masculinity. They're the ones who betray and degrade the women they "love." If I lived a life of lies where I watched painful porn but insisted it was healthy and respectful, future-faked to sleep with women and then dumped them, if I betrayed my wife and showed her nudes to my friends to score man points, and told my sobbing daughter it was her fault for being raped - yeah, my mental health would be utter shit too.

I think a lot of men traumatize themselves though the results of their own behavior. I had an ex-serial abuser and it was clear he was carrying around serious abandonment trauma because all his ex's would end up moving out abruptly because they had to make the quick and decisive move-out you do with histrionic and emotionally volatile men. So he had multiple instances of getting his home invaded by a bunch of strangers for unanticipated moving day and you could tell he was anxious and depressed because it it,-- but it was like dude that shit happens to you because you are a terrible person and only you have to power to make it stop by not treating your girlfriends like utter shite or really going full MGTOW until you die alone.

[–] SecondWaver 14 points Edited

That’s like one of the anecdotes in The Body Keeps the Score where a Vietnam veteran has PTSD and alcoholism because, among other things, he was haunted with flashbacks of him raping a bunch of women after his fellow soldier was killed in a battle by Viet forces.

It’s like…we’re supposed to feel sorry for you? After reading that, everytime I hear a soldier had PTSD I question the cause.

I read that book too and I did think, 'Am I supposed to have empathy for this guy or what?' when I read that exact chapter.

[–] proudcatlady 2 points Edited

Yeah I had the exact same experience with that book. What a chapter to open with!

I've seen so many men online just come out and say that they're not happy with how women can make our own choices, and aren't basically sold off to them like cattle anymore. It's absolutely insane. I also hate how so many of them think they're all alone in their loneliness and depression. Very many people feel lonely and depressed. I feel lonely and depressed every day. I don't have anyone at my beck and call, just because I'm a woman! Shocking. I know tons of women (including myself) who have not been taken seriously about our physical or mental health. It's just sad.

Ok, here's what I have to say to the modern man:

  • Start exercising, preferrably join an amateur sports team. It's good for your mental health and a lot of you seem to like bitching that women won't look at you because you're not athletic.

  • Do things with other men where you're sober.

  • Talk to women at work or in your social circle and listen to what they have to say. Learning that they're real people will benefit your mental health because you won't see yourself as 'at war' with half the population, the half you really want to get close to.

  • Ask other men how they are. If enough men start doing this, someone will ask how you are. Listen to other people's problems, and not just while waiting your turn to talk about yours.

  • Volunteer for a charity, like sitting with the elderly or working at a soup kitchen. Even if it's just once every few months. Contributing to society will make you feel like you have a place in the world, and seeing that other people have bigger problems will ease your frustration with your own life. Don't make this 'something you'll get round to one day', google 'soup kitchen near me' and email them right now.

  • Invest in yourself. Get therapy! No one has to know you're doing it if you don't want them to. If you need to feel heard, might as well pay someone to listen to you. Pretty much everyone I've ever met who turned their lives around included therapy in their overhaul.

  • Get a nice hair cut and dress nicely. You don't need to walk around feeling ugly and lesser than other men! Even if you're short and fat, you can look good if you look like you care about yourself and have style. I venture to say that women are more attracted to snappy dressing than they are to a body type.

  • Look around you at the men in relationships: your boss, your neighbours, people on your new sports team. Are they all 6'4'' gym rats? Probably not! There are average and below average looking people in relationships everywhere you go. Looks aren't a barrier to getting a relationship.

  • If you find something is making you angry, spend less time on it. Do you come away from certain online spaces feeling shit and like your life is hopeless? Then stop doing that to yourself! Do you talk to guys who just tell you that no one likes you and no one ever will? Stop talking to them!

  • If you want something, get help with it! What do you want? Google 'how to like yourself', 'how to make friends as an adult', or whatever is making you miserable. There is a LOT of advice out there.

  • Don't be afraid to put yourself out there. Ask a woman out for dinner; ask a man out to watch a game or go to a board game night; apply for a job you want. It's ok if you hear 'no', it's over in a second and no one has to know if it upsets you. You don't have to be embarrassed in front of other people, just smile and say OK and fake it til you make it.

  • Nothing's going to change unless YOU do something! Don't let losers online tell you that you can't do it, you CAN! Start right now - Google local sports teams, local charities who need volunteers, what are the male celebrities you like wearing? Do it now!

Male tears. Yum. I’m gonna sleep well tonight. :) thanks for sharing

I, for one, am super happy about undeserving men dying alone. For every lonely loser, an angel gets its wings. Don't get me wrong, I have a male SO and we make eachother happy, I have a loving family and I still enjoy spending some time by myself. But men need to accept that they aren't entitled to anything, and women need to learn that they're happier alone than in a mediocre relationship. Let these scrotes die alone and unloved, they deserve it.

Dear men. Yall would have a purpose if you just gave yourself one. It's not society's fault that you spend all your free time jacking off and shitting on women. It's your own fault you're absolutely useless. You'd also be less lonely if you were willing to put even an ounce of effort into creating meaningful relationships but I suspect you've never even asked someone how they're doing before. Instead of spending time with your SOs that you don't deserve, you go behind her back to pull on your little dick. And when she gets tired of it and leaves, you wanna complain about her being insecure and how lonely you are. You spend all your time betraying the women in your lives and not bothering to reach out to any men in your lives and then you're shocked you wind up alone. And this one will be shocking for you but economics affects everyone. And considering reddit is primarily a bunch of white dudes, yall are the LEAST impacted by a bad economy.

TLDR; These are your problems, that you created and that you need to fix. It's not on society. These aren't "men's issues". They're your individual failings.

They act like they’re on such a strugglebus for being men when literally everything is in their favor because modern society was literally made for them. The rise of women not undervaluing themselves has made us turn the mirror on them and face the requirements and critiques women have faced for centuries to be seen as actual valued members of society.

I’m not sorry about it nor do I feel sympathetic for men at all. The rise of women requires knocking down men a few notches.

One person gets it.

Not to sound nihilistic but… nobody has any purpose?

The top comments seemed encouraging. They seemed to talk about issues that affect both men and women (which they don't realize) in a post covid world. Women blaming picks up as you scroll further down. Mainly blaming wives for controlling their husbands or complaining about how women have destroyed male only spaces (HAHAHAHA buddy we can't even pee in a female only space).

Idk if it's the biggest, but I have one. Lack of community. Fraternal organizations are now deemed toxic, outdated, and sexist. There are vanishingly few spaces where men are able to be together without any women present AND not be judged for it.

There are lots of spaces where women can be together with no men present, and it's seen as important sisterhood. If a man demands entry, he's a weirdo creeper. Not saying spaces exclusively for women shouldn't exist. They should. Spaces just for men should exist too.

This one takes the cake.

After marriage, women control most social interactions as a couple - anybody who has been married knows this is the trend. This makes men isolated from their friends. When the inevitable divorce happens - the men are stripped of their home, income, children, and friends - as the friendships leave when the women leaves. It is mens' fault they let women run the social show- and men suffer for it when they are out of a relationship. Since the focus of a mans life is usually the women, they really have nothing when the women leaves except maybe a career.

A man's work used to be a place of men mostly - so that would be an outlet for men to socialize during work and in all male clubs and bars - at least pre WW11. Since then however- almost all spaces have become unisex and men no longer have places to just be male with other males.

No one has a problem with your all-male fantasy football league or guy’s social events, dude. Go create one on Meetup. Feminists had a problem with male-only organizations that held real social/financial power through lucrative connections, and kept women out. Same with schools and jobs. Men always conflate these, which betrays that they think schools, jobs and powerful men’s orgs should exclude women.

The only big blunder feminists did was try to get girls in Boy Scouts, which I actually think was wrong. Boys and men need their own spaces, socially, and feminists should have campaigned for Girl Scouts not to be so lame in comparison.

Men are hierarchical and obsessed with power, so when Boy’s Clubs are extended to the general societal sphere, affecting jobs and education, they hoard money and power away from women with the express goal of making women dependent and disenfranchised, thereby ensuring greater sexual access to more men.

[–] RisingUp 11 points Edited

The only big blunder feminists did was try to get girls in Boy Scouts,

Myth. The Boy Scouts started taking girls because men weren’t stepping up and volunteering.

The Scouts opened up to girls to get female volunteers so the organisation could survive. .

Interesting! I never knew this, and even the media narrative back in the day was, it was because of “liberals” (feminists) complaining. Just goes to show how much men (and patriarchal society) lie about shit!

Men meeting up with each other unsupervised leads to bad times for women and girls. One man can be okay but a group of them quickly turns violent. I do not support male-only anything. It doesn’t go both ways.

Where I was, the Boy Scout leader just offered to let me join, because he was also my shop teacher and knew I was way more interested in the kinds of things they were doing than what the local Girl Scouts offered. Didn't end up taking him up on it, but it was nice to be encouraged instead of sanctioned for preferring to do "boy" things.

There are lots of spaces where women can be together with no men present, and it's seen as important sisterhood

LMAO WHERE??? I want to know where I can go to these woman-only spaces, because even prisons for women have men in them now. Oh wait, it's preddit, of course by "women-only" he means men in womanface and actual women. Damn.

"After marriage, women control most social interactions as a couple - anybody who has been married knows this is the trend. This makes men isolated from their friends."

Poor men. Can't call up their own damned friends for a meet-up of any kind because they're all too busy making their wives responsible for their social lives.

They want all the control and none of the work. Like deciding what's for dinner every night, and then making the wife cook it.

[–] assignedpooratbirth trans-wealthy 5 points

Men will refuse to cook, clean, make appointments, work finances, shop, talk to friends and family, schedule events, and then when their wives pick up the slack because their husbands are as useful as a lump of wet bread, they whine about being “controlled” and “having no say in the relationship.” Like, dudes, you wouldn’t be treated like a 4-year-old if you didn’t act like one.

Men let women deal with the couple’s social life and do not expend the same effort as women into maintaining social relationships. Hardly surprising that if the woman goes, so does the social life. If men like that took responsibility for friendships then they wouldn’t lose it all if the marriage fails. It’s not like women are just dying to be an unpaid social Secretary for their husbands and children.

They can barely be arsed to remember to get their own mothers birthday presents, outsourcing those tasks to the wife.

You're so right. I would have been overjoyed if any of the men I've ever dated would have been even a little involved in our social life as a couple. None of them could be bothered. Women don't control shit. They're just the one who is willing to put in the effort.

Why do they think that all straight marriages are the man making money and the woman does fuck all? Very many couples have both people working. I know quite a few divorced couples where the man took the woman's money because she was the breadwinner. Again with the "wife gonna take my money 😭" bs.

Yeah, where do these people live? All the marriages I know, both partners work. Also it's gross how many divorced men begrudge their exwife alimony, which, let's be real, all gets spent on his children.

Also would like to point out that male-only golf courses, country clubs, and Freemason lodges, still exist. Some have mixed sex off-shoots, but the male-only versions remain. Even Bruce Gender, as a man pretending to be a woman, still goes to a male-only club. There are plenty of male-only spaces as there always have been. But they are segregated by economic class. It has almost always been the case that rich men had their private, sex-segregated clubs, and poor men's time away from women was at their work (if it was a male-only occupation), and maybe at a public house, some of which barred most women. It's never been the case that all men had access to male-only secret societies, fraternities, guilds, clubs, etc. That has always been a privilege only some men had. But their consolation was that society at large very strictly limited the movement of women as the property of males, so what they really want, whether they know it or not, is to go back to that. Either that or achieve economic equality.

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