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RaveWhat ‘My Body, My Choice’ Means to the Right
Interesting post in NYT by Michelle Goldberg about the hypocrisy of the anti-choice people in co-opting bodily autonomy as the argument for opposing vax mandates.
As the feminist Ellen Willis once put it, the central question in the abortion debate is not whether a fetus is a person, but whether a woman is. People, in our society, generally do not have their bodies appropriated by the state. It’s unimaginable that they would be forced to, say, donate blood. As we’ve seen, even mask and vaccine requirements elicit mass umbrage. Americans tend to believe that their bodies are inviolate.
“You can’t make a case against abortion by applying a general principle about everybody’s human rights; you have to show exactly the opposite — that the relationship between fetus and pregnant woman is an exception, one that justifies depriving women of their right to bodily integrity,” Willis wrote in 1985. To ban abortion is to say that pregnant women are not entitled to the authority over their physical selves that other adults expect and demand.
Sometimes you just have to go where you're wanted. If lefty media actually platformed any GC people, many would take them up on it.
I don’t watch Joe Rogan, but I don’t have a problem with anyone going on his show.
To me it’s like refusing to read an article or pay attention to an issue because it’s from the Daily Mail instead of the Guardian. I have found that the “right” are often the only ones that will engage while the “left” pretends there is no issue at all. I really noticed it when Jessica Yaniv was dragging immigrant women through the human rights courts here in Canada because they didn’t want to touch his testicles. If you only paid attention to the left leaning sites you’d never have known it was happening. So I might just go find Joe Rogan’s youtube channel and have a watch.
I’m glad he is doing it and I appreciate his contribution to free speech
Regardless of views on covid, lockdowns, etc I was getting nervous about the direction of Twitter and Trudeau
Is he controversial? I admit I listen to a lot of his alien conspiracy stuff (lol),
I think Joe Rogan is pretty middle of the road on a lot of stuff and he’s mostly an ok interviewer who allows his interviewee to express themselves - he’s not party line on either party and that’s why he bothers the democrats (I say because I don’t see the same ire from Republicans). Didn’t the CDC just say Horse Medicine was good for Covid like last week? But the democrats were busy trashing it when Joe Rogan took it.
he’s not party line on either party and that’s why he bothers the democrats
He doesn't just bother the Democrats. They hate him and can't tolerate or even understand his show. Ive seen him called far right here a half dozen times and my friend who was speaking from complete ignorance listed him offhandedly right after Andrew Tate in a list of "bad far right dudes." Like seriously, a lazy actor with a podcast that doesnt suck the big D is as bad as a pimp and pimp recruiter.
I think his lack of adherence to the party line actually makes him dangerous to Democrats hence the propaganda against him. He's reminding the average dude what being open minded and curious is like
Ivermectin was not like a wacky idea, it was being scientifically studied because it was showing promise, and some people were like "fuck it, its low risk, might as well take it" in the same way you might take high dose vitamin C; might help, probably wont hurt.
The people acting like that was an insane course of action in a deadly pandemic really didnt do the 'pro science' side any favours.
To be clear, i didnt take it and probably wouldnt, but i get why some people did.
I honestly think Joe Rogan is one of the best interviewers because he really doesnt have strong convictions. Hes curious about people and gives them time to explain themselves fully. To some people that feels like 'siding with the enemy'
Yeah, Ivermectin is not just for animals and has been prescribed for humans in the right circumstances (and doses) since the 1980s. Joe Rogan said his doctor is the one who prescribed it for him.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/2021/10/21/joe-rogan-cnn-ivermectin-statement-gupta/
The point is the human prescription also wouldn't hurt or kill anyone. And during the pandemic some people thought they might as well take it in case it helped. The crazy backlash against it was all political. It mainly benefited government actors who wanted more control. It was also to stop any possibility that something else/cheap/already in existence could help the symptoms or God forbid, cure the illness, which would deprive pharmaceutical companies to make their potential billions.
As it turned out, Ivermectin was not a proper treatment. But the point is the officials speaking against it didn't even want the slightest chance of risk of finding out if it did or not. And the pandemic got so politicized that people automatically believed everything said by the narrative on their side (and still do). Joe Rogan caught flak in the middle of this storm, and the left took advantage of it to further paint him as a right-wing nut. He is not. He's not an authority on anything. But people who say he is but have never listened to his podcast are just smearing him without knowing what he's about. He's a great podcast host who interview interesting people, comedians, and MMA fighters, that's it.
They actually did studies on whether it was effective. There was no conspiracy among the government to prevent investigation into whether it was a viable treatment. Trials showed it didn't work. That is how medicine and science work.
The conspiracy theories around ivermectin rival the conspiracy theories around the FDA banning Laetril to treat breast cancer. Yes, the government wants to deprive people of effective treatments because it wants people to die. This is tinfoil hat level stuff.
Your comment misread what i said because you automatically viewed it through a left wing eye and jumped to conspiracy.
There was no "conspiracy" in the sense that government agents met secretly together and decided collectively to prevent investigation. They simply outright took that position, and then doubled down repeatedly as ivermectin gain traction on the right. There were some studies done, yes. But rightly or wrongly, a lot of people didn't find those studies convincing. Regardless, effective or not, it wouldn't have harmed people who got sick for taking it, as it was a drug that could be prescribed to humans.
There was no conspiracy, but the authorities HATED it that people didn't listen. So they were hellbent on vilifying anyone who recommended it. They really did not need to do that. But they were deathly in fear of losing control as The Legitimate Voice as even if some people recovered naturally or felt better as a result of placebo effect, it would undermined their legitimacy. It wasn't that they wanted people to die. The thing that clouded their minds was that they were fixated on being right.
At the same time, if you don't think giant powerful pharmaceutical companies like Moderna, J&J, and Pfizer were lobbing behind the scene, I got to question how naive that view must be. Consider the shrill response they had to Ivermectin, which even if ineffective has been proven harmless in the right dosage, they rolled out Covid vaccine with exception to the normal provision of right of people to sue the pharmaceutical companies for any yet undiscovered harms and liability, then mandated and required people to take the shots, before the full effects are know, with no tests done on potential harmful effects on women, or children, or different age groups. You don't see any thing slightly off kilter at all? You don't question or even have the slightest bit of cynicism that money and power the pharmaceutical industry had any influence in this? They may not be the only thing behind what happened but following the money rarely fails to turn up some truths.
What happened was not a "conspiracy". A left wing group didn't meet behind closed doors and decided to campaign against Ivermectin. It was a series of events leading the government as well as other non-governmental officials not knowing what to do, then taking positions and doubling down in reaction for politics and control, and angry that people weren't listening to them and validating them as elites who know better.
And for the record, now that the pandemic is over and no one is paying attention, these same authorities have now admitted some of the things they insisted during the pandemic which they called right-wing conspiracy theories are true. They now admit the lab-leak theory is the most likely theory, and Fauci himself is linked to the Wuhan lab. They admitted that all the masking mandates didn't make any difference. Fauci himself was on record saying the 6-feet social distancing recommendation has no scientific basis, that it just kind of became a thing. There are other debunked things that had came out since that they have no admitted and even I've lost tracked and stopped paying attention. If you want to look into it, Matt Taibbi for one has been reporting on it and he's not making things up. He has receipts.
I know, lol. I never said it was for covid. Some doctors were prescribing it for that though, apparently.
Can you provide a link to something showing the CDC changed its position on Ivermectin? I looked but can't find anything where the CDC says it can treat Covid.
You know what’s weird is I googled when I heard it on TikTok and then Rogan mentioned it on his recent Shrier episode at the beginning - and now I’m seeing nothing. Maybe I’m totally mistaken or maybe the guidance was pulled again?
I honestly don’t really have a dog in the fight, I just find banning and trashing it amusing government overreach and propaganda even if it doesn’t do anything. (Obviously no one should buy and take any actual vet med).
Its probably a good idea to take anything you hear on TikTok or Joe Rogan with a very large grain of salt and not repeat it without fact checking it. I don't know what you found when you googled it, but had the CDC actually changed positions it would be all over the internet and would not just disappear so easily. Every anti-vaxx nutjob would be spreading it far and wide, Kennedy would have called a press conference.
Ivermectin has never been banned. When there is a deadly disease, the government's job is to stop the spread of misinformation about ineffective and potentially dangerous treatments. If someone is at risk of dying, they shouldn't be taking a medication that "doesn't do anything" instead of getting proper medical treatment. That's how people end up dying who could have been saved. There was no overreach or propaganda from the government about ivermectin. The propaganda was coming from the people pushing it an a legitimate treatment.
I mean… at least I acknowledged that? I think I’m probably more critical of the government response to Covid than most in here - a lot of it was overreach. My county required vaccination cards - for a vaccination that doesn’t work and that cracked out my thyroid.
Ivermectin was used by other countries with a decent amount of success. It’s not a miracle drug but it does work a bit. And we’re talking about a time when there was no paxlovid or remdisavir (which I would not take) or those antibodies that were so popular and hard to locate.
Except anecdotes that it worked were never supported by controlled research studies. And when doctors wouldn't prescribe it, people were turning to animal supply stores and taking ivermectin formulated for animals and fish tanks, which is dangerous. And vaccines did and do work. Vaccinated people don't die, don't end up on ventilators or having strokes. The statistics are pretty stark comparing outcomes for unvaccinated and vaccinated people in terms of death, hospitalizations and permanent disabilites. And Covid infection itself is associated with triggering thyroid disorders.
I just checked, they still recommend against it.
Internationally, the main benefit of ivermectin seems to have been treating any low grade parasite issues, freeing up the immune system to deal with COVID better.
Joe isn't a right winger, he's a pot smoking comedian who never voted Republican in his life. The interview was excellent. He empathized with her the entire time. He used to be MMA fighter. He understands why there are separate categories.
He also had Bernie on to talk about his platform, and no republican candidates ever.