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Doesn't matter how much money you throw at the situation, if men are still shit partners and shit fathers, then nothing is going to change.
Even if every Korean mom got a million dollars, its pointless if she doesn't have a support structure that allows her to enjoy her baby
Well, a million dollars should be enough to hire a nanny.
Thing is, I sincerely doubt they are throwing that much money at the situation.
Plus, the men being shit partners problem. Many women are evolutionary wired to not want babies with men who are shitty partners. Even if there were enough money for the man's shittyness not to matter, there's a deeply ingrained instinct that it's a bad idea to have children with a man who won't care for them.
The comments on social media about this are quite based. Lots of “start treating women as equals” and “stop penalizing motherhood” getting hundreds and thousands of likes. Gives me hope.
It's easy for people to pinpoint sexism when it's a foreign faraway country.
I don’t think that’s what it is about, our birth rate is also below replacement level. Women everywhere are fed up.
My point is that I never see this talked about in regards to Western cultures. It'd always treated as a big mystery or just a monetary issue. The only time misogyny comes up is if it's other countries.
The only time misogyny comes up is if it's other countries.
Connecting the dots is often too uncomfortable.
I see it literally talked about all the time between women. In here. On TikTok. Women saying why they don’t want kids/to be married again/etc and it all boils down to “men suck” for a vast majority.
Yes, some women don’t want children because they don’t like children (my grandmother was one but was born in a time that wasn’t possible, and she wasn’t a good mother as a result). But most women who don’t want children it’s because they see what being a mom is (aka a servant to the full family) and that is frankly exhausting. And it directly ties to sexism.
Yeah, between women in feminist spaces. My point is that I see sexism acknowledged in mainstream spaces only when it's refering to some faraway country, otherwise it's treated as a mystery or a monetary issue (if women aren't blamed for it ofc).
I don’t think that’s what it is about, our birth rate is also below replacement level. Women everywhere are fed up.
Thats right. Generally, the only places with replacement level birth rates or higher are the ones where women have few options aside from marriage & babies
Good. We have more than enough people, unless you still believe the fantasy of eternal economic growth on a finite planet.....or the bigger fantasy of colonizing Mars. Now if the other 200+ countries would follow suit.
Glad to see a comment by someone else who thinks life on planet earth would be a whole lot better on a far less overpopulated planet.
I’ve lived there. The new generation of women are expected to be domestic slaves AND hold down a job AND to look as good as a K-pop idol (plastic surgery is rampant there). And South Korean women aren’t having it!
Seems the author, Justin McCurry is totally unaware of the violent chauvinism in South Korea and its impact on women wanting to remain single.
https://www.nytimes.com/2023/01/27/opinion/south-korea-fertility-rate-feminism.html
Yun Suk-yeol ran on anti feminism.
Yeah there’s a lot of “gee it’s so WEIRD birth rates are falling in ______” articles lately (and maybe always). I’m happy to see reporting on them and post for that reason but hope that reporters start actually doing some proper analysis. No breath holding while hoping though….
It seems to me that in most nations where birth rates are falling it's because women are getting educated, getting into the workforce. Two generations back, all men did was have a full time job. That was it. For that, they expected a bang maid that would take care of every bit of domestic drudgery in their lives.
Now, they are expecting a woman to have that full time job too, pay half the bills and still be the bang maid that takes care of 95% of the domestic drudgery and then say they changed a diaper once a week or turned the dishwasher on and see that as an equitable arrangement.
It's not. Women that are educated aren't signing up for that.
Edited. Men also see women with children as easier targets to abuse. Because "the children".
Now, they are expecting a woman to have that full time job too, pay half the bills and still be the bang maid that takes care of 95% of the domestic drudgery and then say they changed a diaper once a week or turned the dishwasher on and see that as an equitable arrangement.
So true! While its true that most stay at home moms didn't have idyllic lives (and being financially dependent on a husband is a HUGE risk if he turns abusive or leaves), at least the arrangement where the husband works and financially supports everyone while the wife manages the household was somewhat fair.
But now we're expected to be June goddam Cleaver at home while ALSO working full time!? And dealing with the futility of at least half of our income going to daycare? Its a raw deal
And if we pick one or the other we are lazy leeches to society or horrible neglectful Mothers
So...do they just expect their population numbers to rise continuously forever and ever? Surely they must realize this isn't sustainable? Maybe they should spend some $ trying to figure out how to get along with a declining population rather than trying to return to a state of constant growth
So...do they just expect their population numbers to rise continuously forever and ever?
Yes.
Surely they just realize this isn't sustainable?
Sadly, no.
You see, you're using too much reason. Unfortunately, people generally aren't like that.
Its not an issue of growth. There aren't enough babies born to compensate for the aging population or replace the people who die. And that's a problem when older folks who cannot work need care, but there aren't enough young people around to pay into the system and/or provide that care to them
I understand the problems that come with a declining population. But you can't just say "it isn't an issue of growth" and then proceed to explain that it absolutely is an issue of growth. And clearly I'm aware of what the problems are which is why I said this
Maybe they should spend some $ trying to figure out how to get along with a declining population
No ponzi scheme can last forever.
No ponzi scheme can last forever.
The crux of the matter hinges on this. The petroleum age had an incline, and will have a resulting decline. People don't want to hear this. Personally, I think the current phenomenon shows a fascinating display of unconscious collective wisdom on the part of women in reducing our offspring at this time.
I would add that I think all the fertility issues so many people are having is also essentially Mother Earth trying to solve the problem.
I mean your population doesn’t have to grow OR shrink, it could just be stable
It could I suppose but I don't think that's what they want. Everyone (but especially industry) wants GROWTH!
We could do with some serious shrinking of the world's population, considering the climate change and the resulting scarcity of agriculturally useable land.
The reason for women is that the men put all the responsibility for home life on women, & she is the servant. Nobody cares about her happiness. She is on duty 24/7.
They mention couples talking about the price of housing & cost of living. And unstable employment. That does seem to be a common complaint in many countries when you have heterosexual couples who do want to have kids. I think that maybe a lot of these countries need to consider employing more people building more houses that are affordable. Also, since employment has gone from manufacturing & production to FIRE (Finance, Insurance, Real Estate ) often such economies have a lot of inequality.
And employment has to be more family friendly-which means women friendly.
I might have wanted kids if men were decent, money was abundant and the environment wasn't collapsing, and I didn't have genetic diseases.
I have a daughter and deeply love her. But I sometimes feel guilty for bringing her into such an unstable world that is growing increasingly more hostile to both women and Jews. So I totally understand women who forego motherhood for this reason even if they want babies
The incentives should go only to the woman and child. Every article I read is about countries convincing "couples" to have kids. Tie it only to the woman and child, the man gets nothing. The incentives should be for the one who takes all the physical, emotional, financial, mental risks of raising children.
The problem in Korea is they treat women like servants, once they have a financial safety net, housing and childcare, I bet many would be happy to raise kids. Whether they want to do it alone, with other women or a man should be their prerogative. If the man turns out to be a man-child she should be able to safely abandon him at the nearest Best Buy without penalty.