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Need Advice or SupportIssue with new male coworker
I dunno if this is the right circle since it didn't seem to fit into any others. So this morning I found out that I have a new male coworker, and I expected him to be some middle aged guy with an average size build just like my other male coworkers. But when I saw him it turned out he's huge, tall, and very muscular with a buzz cut and beard, completely unlike anyone else I've worked with. I almost immediately felt on edge when I saw him, the fucker has a physique that makes me think "oh god he looks like he could kill me with one hand." I'm conflicted because I'll be seeing him every week now, and I don't want to feel wary everytime I happen to be in his presence since he's never done anything and I don't wanna be anxious at work. Do you guys have any tips of what to do?
In my experience those big scary-looking guys are often very gentle -- because everyone's scared of them already on sight, so they have to be nicer than normal to counteract that. I'd get to know him a little before assuming he's a killer.
Yes that's been my personal experience too - they grow up having 'nothing to prove', and having to negotiate people's natural wariness (and, often, men's natural belligerence) and they learn kindness. See what he's actually like.
Story time: I was riding public transport with my first kitten, in his box but on a leash. I let him out of the box and he made a beeline for the lap of a huge scary-looking man sitting across from me. Oh shit, I thought, I'm going to be murdered. The man looked at the kitten, and looked at me, said 'I have twelve at home' and started petting my boy.
Also people are nicer to them because they're scary so they have net positive experiences with other people, which makes them more positive people. Big guys usually have to be actual psychopaths to mess with someone for no reason. Smaller, weaker men are generally the ones who fuck with women.
This seems to be true in general, e.g. people who are true experts at something are typically generous with their knowledge and support, while people less capable/certain of their abilities tend to parade and hoard their expertise. I remember reading a study about female quotas in, I believe, Swedish government, which concluded that the 'losers' in the situation were the poorly performing men, who lost positions to more capable women - the more capable and competent men had nothing to lose by competing with women.
Listen to your gut.
This guy may be a gentle giant who fosters neonatal kittens in his free time and is a hobby gardener who coaxes orchids to bloom in his greenhouse. I don't know -- and neither do you. It won't hurt him at all for you to keep him at arm's length, nor should it offend him if you maintain a strict, coolly professional relationship with him.
If at some point you feel more comfortable and relaxed around him, then proceed as you like. But initially, it won't hurt to keep him at a distance and might just be necessary to keep yourself safe. Too many of us have been conditioned to ignore that quiet voice of warning, and it's been to our detriment.
As a tall mother of tall sons, I encourage you to prioritize your physical and emotional well-being over his potential feelings about the situation. A genuinely decent man won't be hurt or offended at all by your doing so.
If it's something instinctual that you find unsettling about his demeaner or just something you can't put your finger on, then yes, absolutely listen to that, and particularly be careful to not be alone with him. But if it's just because he's muscular and that makes you hyper aware of how much stronger he is than you and that he could do a lot of damage, sorry to be the one, but that's likely true of all of your male coworkers (unless someone you work with has a pretty significant health problem). Your average-build middle aged male coworkers are also physically capable of killing women with their bare hands. The only things that would make this particular man MORE dangerous to you than any other man are related to his behavior, personality, and beliefs; if he's more aggressive/violent, more misogynistic, pornsick, a grievance collector, decides you're his 'soul mate' and won't take no for an answer, whatever. Which again, are all things that would make a less physically intimidating man just as dangerous to you.
I think that we should be cautious about judging men by their natural appearance. Some men are just tall and muscular. They may have a buzz cut due to wanting to hide male pattern baldness, and grow a beard to compensate for the head-hair loss, or just for fashion. Beards are quite fashionable right now, whereas in the 1990s and early 2000s they were an absolute no-no.
Unless you've got any other signs that this man is dangerous, I don't think you need "tips". If you have suffered past trauma through SA for example, and have anxiety around men generally, then that's something to discuss with a therapist or appropriate practitioner.
I may or may not get down voted for this. But I immediately wouldn't trust him or any other male coworker. I myself attempted basic human decency with one in the past and the creep took it as me being interested in him. Didn't even care that I was 20 plus years younger. As a result I will not give any future males I work with the time of day. Far too many see any kindness as an invitation. Now I try and befriend other female coworkers if I can find any shared interests but other than that keep to myself. As for tips for dealing with him. I would only speak to him relating strictly to work. Never talk casually to him or ask him how we is. Avoid him during break periods. Never help him unless mandatory. Stonewall any chance of him getting to know you. And finally ensure that when he is around never talk about yourself or intrests. If you're feeling on edge about him never ignore that feeling and absolutely trust your gut. Men who are infact predatory will often count on our female socialization to attempt to harm us. Thus never feel bad about taking steps for your personal safety. Regardless if the male hasn't 'done' anything wrong. The worse thing that happens to any non dangerous male being perceived as a potential threat is their feelings get hurt or they have a harder time being trusted immediately. The worst thing that happens to us women for not being wary enough is we're harmed, killed, kidnapped, sexually assaulted, and unfortunately blamed for not being discerning enough. Stay safe and good luck!
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Yes. It's a hard-learned lesson that no matter how much older a man is and how obvious it should be that you're not 'romantically interested' in him, a ton of men have no such cutoff where they see themselves as too old for you and won't enthusiastically interpret basic friendly behavior on your part as a come-on.
I'm so sorry this happened to you as well. I completely understand how frustrating this is. Especially when I hear how often situations where vastly older men harass us in working environments aren't unfortunately uncommon. I hope one day we can live in a world where this isn't something any of us has to worry about.
oh god he looks like he could kill me with one hand
I hate to say it but even your 'middle aged guy with an average size build' can do this.
He'll be the least drama probably (I hope) it's the little pipsqueaky one that will be a complete asshole to you as soon as he can get away with it, in my experience.
Men who get respect from other men usually don't waste any time trying to push women around. It's the lowest ones on the male hierarchy who will seek out women to treat like shit because they know they'll lose teeth if they bring that attitude to other men.
Big guys like that usually have to have pre-existing dark triad traits before you have to worry about them, and being as big as they are...yea they end up in prison most of the time.
But anyways just be normal around him. If he doesn't find you attractive or annoying you won't have anything to worry about - that goes for all men, really.
'Men who get respect from other men usually don't waste any time trying to push women around.' Great point.
I'm very glad to read how neutrally or kindly so many of you think of huge, muscly men. I am frightened of them too. Luckily in my neck of the woods there aren't very many of them about, but I'll try to be a bit more sensible now.
Though otoh, as other commenters have written, we are right to be wary of ANY man who gives you the creeps - no matter how big or small, threatening or unthreatening, 'respectable' or not - our subconscious picks up cues that our conscious mind either doesn't identify or actively tries to ignore or suppress. I have a good story about that but am almost done with lunch break so it will have to wait :)
Read this book, if you haven't yet:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Gift_of_Fear
He helps identify when it's appropriate to acknowledge and act on our fear, and why - but also when it isn't.
Thanks for responding, and I have read that book.
Thing is, they don't have to 'give me the creeps' ~ just standing there minding their own business is enough to make me hyper aware of them and fearful, and that's logically daft, so I'll be working on that.
When you have a mo, tell us the story.
Yeah, my comment was just to discourage any women reading this from arguing themselves out of it if they DID encounter a large man who they may have a subconscious warning about.
I used to ride a cranky old motorcycle which was notoriously difficult to start. I stopped at a gas station to refuel and, as often happened, I couldn't get the damn thing started again. While attempting to get going, a man came up to look at the bike - this often happens, it's an interesting machine. Then he said he could help me start it - I said no thanks, it's fine, I know how it works, it just takes a little patience, I'll get it going. There was some back and forth, and I finally gave him the chance to have a go. I honestly don't remember what happened next - I think I rolled it away from the pump for a while and took a break before starting up again. But what I do remember is that at some point during this conversation I was instantly paralysed with fear. I was a small, not particularly good driver on an unreliable machine; he was in some kind of truck or van - he could easily drive too close, or do something distracting - he wouldn't actually have to push me off the road to cause me to have a serious accident. I immediately went into 'fawn' mode, and let him do what he wanted.
I processed this situation with friends several times afterwards, trying to figure out why I was suddenly so 'irrationally' frightened. And I realised it was as soon as he ignored my 'no'. Any man who ignores a 'no' in a minor thing will have no qualms about ignoring a woman's 'no' about anything.
Maybe it has to do with how much media is still male-dominated and they're the men other men fear, so they're the ones that get portrayed as scary and so that's the messaging women get inundated with.
And think when realizing that, the response isn't to lose that caution, but to appreciate that it should extend to all men and we shouldn't let that guard down around the men other men aren't fearful of. All men are dangerous to us, the vast majority can overpower us and hurt us, and that includes Dave from accounting that other men view as a wimp and will call 'harmless' and act like we're overreacting if we think he's creepy and don't want to be alone with him. And we let men assess the threat to us from their viewpoint at our peril, because plenty of killers of women have been weak, loser men.
TLDR, the system of measurement society uses for whether a man should be taken seriously as a threat tends to be if other men worry about pissing him off. The system we as women should be using is if he can hurt us (yes).
Trust your gut and watch how he treats women and anyone else’s who’s weaker than he is. A lot of guys will become gym rats when they have some body dysmorphia to try and fight that—so he might not be trying to be dangerous. I would watch him carefully, and avoid until you know for sure how he behaves—but that’s my policy for all men.
Yes about the dysmorphia, but in my experience gym guys are usually pretty chill. Back in my straight days I dated a couple and they love being treated like shit by women! I used to dress like a gothy dommy mommy and they would flock to me and then get bored when they realized I wouldn't affirm their horrible self image via abuse, and dump me. Funny I put on an all black tight outfit and some docs the other day and was walking around and noticed a super buff guy really staring at me like he was lost and I was his mommy and was like oh god!
I stg deep down men REALLY just want to be told what to do by women. But they get insecure about it and that makes them toxic
Following your intuition, and maintaining plenty of space and boundaries from men is always fine advice. Don't feel like you have to overcome your fear, or be friendly to everyone. Focus in your own work, your own well being. If you start to feel more comfortable around him, great, if not, just don't try to force it.
In so many cases, we can look to the canine world to give us models of how many human men behave. Often a chihuahua is much more aggressive than a saint bernard. With dogs as with men, I've had more trouble with the little ones, as long as they aren't taking a flying leap into your lap. Edit: But, as others have said, you are entitled to trust your instincts.
Avoid him if you can. If you must interact with him, try to strike up a conversation to get to know him better and sometimes that can help with the fear. The devil you know and all that.
If you are getting bad vibes from him, I always say, trust female intuition.
If you are getting bad vibes from him, I always say, trust female intuition.
Exactly. It doesn't need to be rational or justified, if you feel it then listen to it.
OP I don't think you need to go crazy with worry but if you feel the need to be cautious and take measures to protect yourself then do so.
This - and don't over compensate trying to be nice to make up for the fact you mistrusted him. There's no need for him to know how you feel about him.
Well, I guess it depends on how much or how closely you have to work with this guy. You can trust your intuition if you want, but be careful not to judge someone just on their appearance alone. He could be a nice or pretty passive dude. If you’re really concerned you don’t ever have to be alone with him but don’t treat him differently unless his actions give you any reason to.
Generally speaking this is not the type of man to fear. A big, tall man has nothing to prove. It's the weaselly manlets with a chip on their shoulders that usually causes trouble.
If he doesn't give you grounds to fear him treat him like literally any other coworker. He's there to cash a check just like you.