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GC Social MediaMarsh Video Reactor Deletes "Offensive Content"
https://www.tiktok.com/@therealoverloadcomedy/video/7209712999966297350
Shumirun Nessa now begging for mercy after TRAs and Islamophobes continue to threaten not only her life but her children. She acquiesced for their safety and I feel just sick after watching this.
I try not to be the person that says "I told you so." But today I will be her.
I'm not new to this issue by a longshot. I'm not recently peaked. I've been a radical feminist since the 80s when I was old enough to understand it.
I spent a lot of time online interacting with TRAs and teens who wanted to or were in the process of transitioning. There was no reasoning with them, they were bound and determined to do this AND were perfectly comfortable making death and rape threats and wishing for anyone who disagreed with them to "die in a grease fire."
These detransitioners ARE THE SAME PEOPLE. They are showing us this all the time. Don't forget it, they haven't suddenly come to their senses or come to understand radical feminist theory.
They are still happy to undermine women's rights. Don't forget it.
This is painful to read as a detransitioner. I was a non-conforming kid on the cusp of puberty, terrified of becoming a woman. I didn't transition because of narcissism, I didn't make death or rape threats. I've worked hard to forgive my past self, and forgiveness started by reminding myself that I was a scared 11 year-old. My barely-developing body was already being sexualized and controlled. I was told to cover up breasts that didn't yet exist. My brother and father dominated the dinner table, speaking over and dismissing my mother and me. Boys at school treated me like an outsider, yet I didn't fit in with the girls. My Little League coach ignored me and refused to give me even the minimum required playing time.
I transitioned because I wanted to be viewed as an equal member of society. I'm sure you've experienced the utter frustration of men talking down to you, or belittling your opinions, or just outright ignoring what you say. If you thought there was an easy way out of that, wouldn't you take it?
So yes, I'm sorry that I tried to jump ship. I thought becoming a boy would fix my problems, but I didn't realize you can't transition out of misogyny, sexism, and a society that will never allow women to be on equal footing with men.
I feel for you and anyone who was misled as a child into a broken and dangerous ideology. Particularly one that health professionals are encouraging, i can imagine how easy it is to believe them and the online 'friends'.
But women are justified in feeling insulted and angry towards those who tried to jump ship. To those of us who, upon experiencing misogyny for the first time, sat back and thought 'what is wrong with the world' rather than 'what is wrong with women' it seems an unjustifiable choice to make.
I work with a lot of teenage girls. I see many of them jumping on the trans or they/them bandwagon. I'm not angry at them for doing so; I'm sad that they feel the need to choose that path. I don't know how we can reverse this trend.
I'm trying to figure out a coherent way to word this, but not really succeeding. What is see is this: They're trying to escape womanhood, and I don't see how we can convince them not to, since we're still a long way from fixing all of the problems that make womanhood something from which people want to escape. Especially since the US is going backwards in terms of women's autonomy. Does that make sense?
We have to convince them to fight the battle with us instead of fleeing from it, but how we do that, I don't know.
I love and embrace detransitioners whether they want to align with GC/radfems or not
You were in pain and trusted the adults, government, medical establishment, etc
You should have been right to do so. It should not have cost you
If this happened when I was your age, especially if there had been some sorts of trauma, I’d be right there too
Hugs and love and you don’t have to agree with me or even not hate me.
Hmm i think we need to recognise how incredibly easily led and influenced young girls can be: cut off access to the Internet as far as humanly possible, encourage physical exercise and sports as an outlet.
I just don't get it. It's not an innate thing as no other generation has come to the conclusion that they weren't women when faced with patriarchal society. I can see how this social contagion has struck, but I just cant get how girls fell for it to this degree.
From what I've seen online, it seems like the people drawn to transitioning are the ones who want to get a bulletproof vest against any criticism or being told what to do.
That generally indicates narcissism and insecurity.
"No, you can't always tell."
I mean, so what? Why is this even an argument. Sure, sometimes people get away deception. Sometimes some people aren't paying attention and don't notice facts around them. You could say this about a lot of things - do you know what kind of shoes everyone is wearing or what job they have...? Maybe with a fuzzy picture or trying to remember a brief encounter, you'd get some things wrong. Maybe if they misrepresented things they'd be able to make you think things that weren't true. A lot of things are pretty obvious or easy to figure out, but sure, people make mistakes or can be tricked. That isn't evidence of some kind of spectrum of gender or anything. Ultimately, you have a sex, even if you sometimes successfully hide it from some people.
Facts don't change, and if those facts are pertinent in a scenario, then it's important for people to be honest about them. Who cares if trans people occasionally confuse a few random strangers? In cases where sex matters, like sports, statistics, medicine, dating apps, prison, crisis centers and any private female spaces, males should not try to pretend to be female to gain access. They could argue for trans-specific or co-ed spaces if they wanted, but there is no reason for female plus TW based merely on the idea that males have sometimes been able to pull off or "pass" in costume previously. That is just saying, we've lied and gotten away with it, so you should give up.
They always try to take a dig at gender critical people. They are not critical of gender stereotypes, they haven't come to their senses, they just regret their transition, mostly for personal reasons.
Many of the young and youngish female detransitioners strike me as just as hung up on sexist stereotypes now as before when they were "trans." They try very hard to dress, style their hair and wear clothes and makeup that make them look as stereotypically "feminine" as possible.
They also agonize - IMO often needlessly - about their voices, unaware that some women have always had deep voices, and especially back in the days when a lot of people chain-smoked, quite a few women had deep, husky, hoarse voices. They seem unaware as well that it's very common and natural for women's voices to deepen and men's voices to get higher past middle age. This is because as people age, the vocal cords become thinner, the cartilage of the larynx becomes harder and less flexible, the muscles of the the larynx and respiratory system weaken, and lung capacity often lessens due to disease, lack of exercise, weight gain, loss of mobility and changes in posture (particularly in women who become stooped and gnarled). What's more, due to social isolation and other factors, many older people often go for days, weeks or longer without speaking much or at all, which also causes changes in the voice.
But why do you think/expect they’d be radfems? Truthfully I believe the majority don’t understand our viewpoint and mainly just regret the transition and need someone to blame. Having them regurgitate our talking points won’t help (or hurt) our cause, they are living examples of what we are talking about. If some detrans people want their stories amplified by the women in our community that’s great, but we can still keep talking about what happens with detrans people with or without their participation.
Detrans folks are biased. They are not impartial. And that’s fine, it will neither help us nor hurt us.
I don't expect them to be radfems. I also don't think they should be taking shots at the very people who tried to help them and also elevate their voices.
Activism isn’t transactional. It’s work that needs to be done regardless if detrans people agree with how we go about it or not. Detrans people, though greatly affected by gender ID are not solely why radfems perform the activism they do. Detrans people aren’t the end all be all here and they certainly don’t have the final word on how we should be handling this situation. They may have a lot of context but at the end of the day they have their own issues that led them to transition in the first place, and a very pro trans mindset that doesn’t just dissipate overnight when the regret sets in.
Nothing transactional about what I said. They are taking potshots. It's uneccessary. Based on their behavior we shouldn't be elevating their voices. These people are unwell and don't even know themselves.
I think Tulip/Ritchie has a bias and is working out some personal issues here. For the news coverage of his detransition and lawsuit against the NHS, he always provides the press with a photo/photos of himself in his "trans" womanface phase that show only his head and in which he's wearing makeup and has his head tilted in typical TIM fashion to downplay or obscure his jaw and chin and make him look demure, "feminine" and coquettish. So when I saw a photo of him back in "man mode" standing side by side with a woman at the LGB Alliance conference, I was shocked by how truly gigantic and manly he looked in every respect. Very, very tall, broad shoulders, hulking build overall, huge head, very big masculine jaw and facial bone structure.
Just like no one who sees Caitlyn Jenner, Lia Thomas or Laverne Cox IRL or in photos standing next to women, or walking down the street, in an airport, shopping mall or restaurant, etc, would ever think for one second that those TIMs are female, no one would ever look at Ritchie Herron/Tulip in his "trans" phase even when he was most "passable" and be fooled for even for a minute that they were looking at someone female.
I think Ritchie/Tulip is still at least partially in denial, desperately holding on to the belief that he somehow could have, and for a time did, "pass" as a woman in the past. He seems to resent women for challenging and poking holes in that male fantasy.
As for Chloe Cole, she's still just 18. I really don't think anyone should be elevating her to an authority except as regards the limited issues she knows about, such as her own personal experience as a young transitioner and detransitioner and the medical interventions she and other youngsters have been and are being subjected to in the name of "gender affirmation" and "youth transition." I think she's very intelligent and poised, and does a great job presenting the case against child/youth "transition." But at the same time, I don't think she has anywhere near enough personal life experience, understanding of evolution, or knowledge about and contact with grown women to be aware of women's highly-developed ability to accurately sex other human adolescents and adults, or to understand all the reasons why women have this capacity.
I think Ritchie/Tulip is still at least partially in denial, desperately holding on to the belief that he somehow could have, and for a time did, "pass" as a woman in the past. He seems to resent women for challenging and poking holes in that male fantasy.
Definitely this. He was bragging about sending ‘girl mode’ trans photos of himself to trick a GC person and mocking “You can always tell”.
The whole time I wanted to reply that online photos mean nothing when in real life it’s like a 99% clock rate… those camera angle head tilts, photoshops, lighting and hidden body pics aren’t going to help when you walk and stand in person next to a real woman in real life 🤦♀️
I didn’t respond though. I prefer not to fight with the detrans people. Like OP said, they’ve gone through a lot and still have many other problems. They are not GC or redfem themselves in most cases, but serve as a testament to the damage that gender ideology can do. I respectfully do not engage.
I find in real life, just in passing by, not really paying attention, you can still clock someone as male, from the back, or a glimpse - like even just from the corner of your eye. It makes sense, right? If I'm about to be attacked by a male, it sure as hell benefits me to be able to tell someone is male from the least possible visual cues, at the greatest distance. Physical vulnerability of females equals acute clocking ability.
I have posted about this before.
My brain just always spots them when I’m casually scanning, and I believe it’s a combination of things that just subconsciously makes me go “nope” and look again! And lo and behold…it’s a dude!
Maybe (seeing as they did not grow up with the constant threat of male violence/harassment hanging over them) they do not scan their surroundings like we do. Maybe they are in the privileged position of not having to constantly have a part of their brain be aware of the potential threats around them.
And I’ve said it here before but it’s not one thing that makes them clockable, it’s everything - height, build, gait, hand size, foot size, shoe choice, clothing choice, hair, voice - it’s almost as if they look like men. Oh wait…
Maybe (seeing as they did not grow up with the constant threat of male violence/harassment hanging over them) they do not scan their surroundings like we do. Maybe they are in the privileged position of not having to constantly have a part of their brain be aware of the potential threats around them.
This washes with my experience. I once had a male acquaintance say women couldn't tell if you sneak a glance of their boobs. I looked at him in the face while he was talking and then at his chest. He was FLOORED.
They really have no clue how good we are at this, because we have to be.
A perfect example of how they have no idea how different a world we move through - because of male behaviour.
Yes, it makes sense. Also, apparently when in doubt about the sex of an adolescent or adult stranger, people of both sexes will err on the side of reading the person as male and taking precautions accordingly. Because of male strength, sturdiness, aggression and criminality, there's a big potential downside to assuming a male adult or adolescent stranger in your vicinity is female - but there's no corresponding downside to assuming for a spell that a female is or might be male. In other words, better safe than sorry.
I have a hunch that this self-protective mechanism helps explain why TIFs are often said to "pass" as males in other people's eyes much more often than TIMs "pass" as females. It's not just TIFs' beards, close-cropped hair, receding hairlines, pot bellies and "masc" clothes that trick the eye.
Good point about the difference in passing. I think this would make a really useful study for an academic not completely surrendered to gender woo. Even when it comes to passing - the female/male binary shines through!
The problem is not "gc people and detransitioners" imo. It's the twitter environment.
I recently made a new account just to be pure terfy meanness. GC and radfems are not the same, and with hundreds of thousands of people on twitter, you're going to get every breed. I've seen "GC people" try and make fun of a homely woman by calling her a man, I've seen those same people talk about hideous mutilated bodies of trans/detrans ppl.
Do they represent us? No. But will they be used to represent us by very sensitive people?? Big time yes. It's the whole "remember not all GCs are good" is because everyone tries to do the tribal shit. It's why radfems are already splintered off from "GC" because radical feminism isn't just about trans nonsense, and people began to fail purity tests set by the loudest voices. Oh you're not anti vax? Everyone come look at this dumb idiot. Oh you're not anti porn? Everyone come look at this misogynist.
That's not just GCs and radfems obviously, that's the entirety of cancel culture, but it just means that no matter what "internet sect" you belong to, there will always be people to complain that you aren't the realest version of said sect and that you should only listen to whomstever.
Sorry I compared porn and vaccines but I'd literally never run into anto vax stuff until I started adding "GC people" (read: not radfems) and saw just how wide the spectrum was for what GC now meant.
The problem is not "gc people and detransitioners" imo. It's the twitter environment.
I have to disagree. I've seen this behavior, taking potshots at radfems, which they use interchangeably with GC, from prominent detransitioners over and over.
I think it's both. Social media is not a great environment. I don't like the algorithm bubbles and "amplify emotions"-phenomenon. At the same time I think it's becoming fairly obvious which personality types tend to go loudly trans (and then loudly de-trans at some point). These phenomena play into each other. I will even go so far as to state that without these social media algorithms (and porn), the loud trans thing wouldn't be happening at all.
(The narcissists and some self-haters would still exist and doing more traditional narcissist and self-hater stuff, while AGP might not be a thing at all).
I think it's becoming fairly obvious which personality types tend to go loudly trans (and then loudly de-trans at some point).
There are certain people who need a belief system in order to function. The type you describe are often raised in Christian/ultra religious homes that may have been overly oppressive and forceful with gender roles. I see many trans believers also subscribe to hardcore atheism and/or satanism. I've even seen some describe themselves as "high priestess/priest" of whatever alternative shit they believe in. They hate and censor facts that go against their beliefs. They were never taught to digest facts that are incongruent with their world view; they lack critical thinking skills.
I'm fascinated by this facet of gender ideology.
I haven't seen many satanist or alternative people, I've mostly seen porn sick anime fans. Gamer dudebros. All the male ones I met personally was of this persuasion.
I have one friend who has considered going TIF, and she is a self-harmer (of which this would just be a facet, in my opinion).
Agree with this. I tend toward thinking some eyerolling is beneficial overall because I don't want a culture where everything someone "GC" says is praised because they're GC; that's a surefire way for everyone to go spiraling into madness. I'm in favor of poking fun at questionable claims, wherever they're coming from.
I'm a detrans man and I feel like Tulip/Ritchie is only acting like that because he wasn't medicalized as a child/teenager. Also does anyone else notice how these detrans men, that transitioned after 25 have a huge issue taking on ANY accountability?
Sorry, I don't understand why this is offensive, outside of playing a mean experiment on someone. I'd appreciate it if you could explain.
I'm personally someone who 'can't always tell.' I can clock obvious TIMs in-person, but I struggle with posed photographs and TIFs. I knew a TIF for over a year and didn't realize until I realized she had phalloplasty scars, for example. I've just always been bad with faces and body language to begin with, and a lot of the signals people talk about - like posture or a large head - are things that I personally feel self-conscious about since I have them too. Detransitioners and gender non-conforming people are even more difficult for me, because the effects of surgery or hormones and gender presentation just add more noise to the signals I'm receiving.
I'm not saying that just because I can't tell, other people can't tell. But the way I'm reading this tweet, I do think Tulip has a point - we shouldn't assume that everyone has infallible biological sex radar. It's great if you do, but I think we should be careful about spreading the generalization that every woman is always right about other peoples' sex because it's only going to lead to potentially hurtful mistakes. You don't want me thinking I can clock TIMs, for example. I'd be letting every creep off the block into the women-only spa.
'You can't always tell' makes sense to me because that's the kind of world I live in. I'd like a world where I don't have to be able to tell.
I do think Tulip has a point - we shouldn't assume that everyone has infallible biological sex radar.
True, not everyone has an infallible biological sex radar. But many people tend to have a very accurate ability to tell the sex of adult and adolescent humans when encountering them in person IRL. Which very different to seeing them solely in carefully-curated, heavily filtered and photoshopped still photos where the person shown is elaborately made-up, costumed, carefully lit and posted and using prosthetics and props.
Moreover, for evolutionary and personal reasons, female human beings as a group tend to be very good at accurately telling the sex of male human beings who are of an age and size where they can be a threat to us.
As a male, and a very large and sturdy and physically imposing male at that, Ritchie Heron/Tulip doesn't know jack shit about females' ability to accurately sex males who are stronger, bigger, faster and more aggressive than us and who could be a threat to us. I know Ritchie was bullied and shamed for being a gay guy growing up, but he has never once spent a day of is life in a female body and thus he has no idea about the vulnerability that women and girls feel to male violence, intimidation, perving, sexual assault and unwanted pregnancy. Due to this vulnerability, women and girls are very attuned to the presence of males in our vicinity and most of us are always on the lookout for them in RL settings. This causes most of us to constantly but unconsciously surveil our surroundings in order to separate out the adult and adolescent males - and sometimes middle-school males who look like troublemakers, bullies and sexual harassers too - from the females.
My post wasn't about passing. It's about detransitioners always taking shots at the very people who have spent at least a decade trying to help them.
Thanks for the explanation, appreciate the edit clarifying that it was the behavior you found offensive.
I will fight to my last breath for the teenage girls I personally know who transitioned and those like them, no matter how much they might hate me for it. That is my responsibility as an adult.
While I am sympathetic to women, no matter what cult they've followed and left, you are right. The better way to judge is whether they are still male identified, if that's the case they still do not align with radfem, or even regular feminist thought(I don't consider the clownery happening nowadays feminism). And while we can acknowledge they are victims, it also has to be by individual basis of actions they took while being involved in transactivism and also after. Just like with anti abortion women,pro sex work/kink etc, actions matter. Personal responsibility and accountability matter.Taking actions to take away women's rights and harm women matters. Basically judge them the same as any women who prioritizes men over women, if that is in fact what they're doing.
Jeez these people are delusional.
Irl you can pretty much outright tell a bloke is pretending to be a woman 99.999% of the time (I’d say 100% but I’m being generous). There is always an “off” feeling and without filters, poses and lighting, TIMs are very easy to clock IME.
TIFs have an easier time passing visually but it’s a charade that reveals itself more often than not in their behaviours and mannerisms. The way males and females interact is just different, the words we choose, the way we speak, the way we carry ourselves, our gestures, our facial expressions...everything. The “off” feeling will be present.
And even if someone “passes” which is extremely rare. So what? You’re successfully tricking people/wearing a disguise/living a lie....congrats I guess? Doesn’t make you the opposite sex, it makes you a performer, a deceiver, someone lying to themselves and everyone around them.
There is always an “off” feeling
100% agree.
And I think that women are probably very tuned in to subconsciously identifying if someone nearby is male or female.
Detransistioners are turning into self proclaimed martyrs and using their new identity as a means of being oppressed while acting superior to others.
I support them exposing the medical lies that led them down the trans path and I support the malpractice suits they bring. Otherwise they are immature judgemental children who need to grow the fuck up. They always want to punch down on women and be seen as some sort of hero for saying what we've already tried to tell them.
GC and radfem women told them exactly what would happen, they ignored the warnings, then when they realize their mistakes they tell us to "fuck off".
98% of them are petty childish wanks. They need serious therapy.
Wow. As a detransitioner I find this vitriol quite off-putting.
I came out as trans when I was 11. I was supported by family, my community, doctors, therapists, etc. I didn't have the benefit of GC and radfem women telling me it was okay to be nonconforming, okay to be afraid of what it means to become a woman, okay to not be okay with the realities of being a woman.
I know that not all detransitioners support radical feminism or are ready to see the ways gender ideology affected them. I tried to escape the confines of the role assigned to me based on my sex. In doing so, I reinforced the whole system of gender stereotypes and threw other women under the bus. It's not easy to accept that, and for many people it's easier to just think, "Transition wasn't for me."
The teenage years are usually a time for self-discovery. I spent my teenage years figuring out who I was as a trans person. Now, I'm trying to navigate that again. Figuring out who I am as a woman - a woman with no breasts, a woman permanently altered by testosterone and puberty blockers - is a process.
So yes, I am still growing up. Puberty blockers stunted my development. Testosterone set me back in my path to becoming a grown woman. I know I still have a lot to learn, and while I'm certainly no hero, I do have something to say. In the words of Pete Seeger, I've got a song to sing, and I hope there's a place for my voice in the radical feminist movement.
Thank you for what you've written here. I know it can't be easy in threads like this.
Hear hear! They’re still the same people that they were when they were ‘trans’. Just because they realized that they made a mistake does not mean that they’re suddenly reasonable, kind and mentally sound people.
Why does Ovarit have a detrans women circle?
So we can be supported? It's not easy coming back to radical feminism and trying to find your footing after detransitioning. Many of us lost our support groups when we detransitioned because those support groups were based around trans/LGBT.
I'm detrans, and so are many people I talk to on twitter. Most of us, but especially those who were medicalized young, aren't like this. Please don't judge everyone as being nasty little ogres, most ftm transitioned after sexual trauma, being ostracized for their sexual orientation, and/or are from families that devalued us, and we were told that being traditionally gender non-conforming meant we weren't women. We were offered a golden ticket to happiness that was explained in a way that made sense to us, based on our incorrect observations of womanhood, which we wanted to escape.
The most unpleasant people are always the loudest, and that doesn't change when they detrans, but please look to the thousands of us who aren't like this, who don't pander to anyone who'll pay us the smallest bit of attention.
ETA: Apologies for being disjointed and weirdly worded, flu medicine
You sound stressed by this thread so fwiw I don't think it's worth spending much time thinking about random internet people's judgements on you. If someone is aware of the social forces pushing people to attempt 'transition', and then reasons that it's down to some intrinsic flaw in the people who go for it, I don't think you're going to change their thinking.
(Someone will probably come along to say "'don't care about judgement' is how we got into this mess!" but imo that mistakes the rhetoric of transactivism for the actual psychology afoot. ime people care very very much about judgement and approval... of an online peer group. Or sometimes an IRL peer group, if they're in a bubble of likeminded people. The rhetoric about doing your own thing obscures that 'trans' as a political project markets itself by offering community. From what I've seen, one reason people can get wary of all political movements when they detransition is that they are trying to avoid making the same mistake again. Mocking gender-critics along with TRAs is partly a way of avoiding cleaving too closely to one group. And sometimes that comes after an earlier attempt at diving into all things GC, and then getting disillusioned)
I also think it's setting off on the wrong tack to come from an angle of 'not all of us; I'm different' rather than questioning whether a judgement is reasonable in the first place.
tl;dr: OP's free to judge, you're free to ignore.
Thanks for your insight, you've given me something to think about, and I do want to make it known that I can't abide an asswipe; I defend Chloe only on the basis that she's still very young, she's been shitty and defends the misogynistic politicians or talking heads courting her. I don't like that, and I don't like the arrogance with which she talks down to feminists and liberal women, either.
I just want to point out that people like her and Tulip aren't representative of the wider (female) detrans community; I know that sounds familiar ("not all men") but I know or know of so, so many detrans women who aren't like this at all, and it feels counterintuitive to alienate women who've been hurt by misogyny because some of their numbers are still actively courting it by being little assholes.
Not shitting on your right to judgment, I guess I'm coming in from a different community, where the cleaving from the TRA community's already been done.
I don't know much about these people so I'm not passing any judgement on them personally. The trick linked in OP didn't seem like a big deal. I don't know Chloe's story. I know the story of what happened to Ritchie and it's fucking horrifying. I know the story of what happened to Helena and it's also a horror story. Imo caring about what happened to them (including caring enough to share it and/or try to stop it) isn't some self-sacrificing feminist act that detrans people ought to be grateful for, or some political calculation, it's basic humanity.
My point was more that you're investing time trying to make OP think better of detrans people, and you have little if any reason to see OP as an authority on anything in the first place. Your way of trying to gain that approval it is to distance yourself from people who OP disapproves of and call them names. So what I was getting at is to look a bit deeper into the impulse to do that, because I think that is an approach that trans online culture (or tribalistic online culture more generally) really encourages.
Please be assured that most of us don't feel this extremely. I'm absolutely here for you and others like you. I don't think it's fair to point to one example of a detrans person saying something iffy and write them off for it, much less pointing to it as an example of how all detransitioners are.
Feel better btw!
Thanks so much for your kind words. I've had time to sit on it and read more about what's going on, and I'm still kinda hinky about the broad language being used to judge a group of people who tend to be traumatized and autistic, based on the actions of outspoken people who've been in the media on one side or the other since childhood, but there have been definite assholes poking at radfems and gender crits.
Anyway, thanks again for saying this, and for your well wishes :)