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My teacher brought it up in psych class. I'm genuinely concerned I tried looking it because I'm highly concerned. Are there other factors. Someone explain and help

My teacher brought it up in psych class. I'm genuinely concerned I tried looking it because I'm highly concerned. Are there other factors. Someone explain and help

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[–] hontrapoints 53 points Edited

No. There were some surveys in the 70s and 80s which indicated that around half of the surveyed women have had "forced seduction" fantasies at some point in their lives, or something to that effect.

Heterosexual women don't have fantasies about being raped by a disgusting man they have no attraction to, which is what men want to believe. Heterosexual women fantasize about men they're attracted to "pushing" them to have sex so they can mentally assuage the guilt of having sexual desires by thinking they were made to do it

It's nothing but misogyny and males refusing to understand anything about women and how women are systematically shamed out of having sexual desires to the point where they feel too uncomfortable to admit them

[–] SecondSkin 17 points Edited

I don’t think it’s just this. Women are socialised to think that a man who pursues us forcefully, really really cares about us. The never ending messages about how a boy who is mean to a girl is being mean because he really likes her, and so on. So women are conditioned from a young age to view men’s desire for us, as love.

Which is bullshit.

And that if they love us we owe them something in return.

Which is more bullshit.

Heterosexual women don't have fantasies about being raped by a disgusting man they have no attraction to, which is what men want to believe. Heterosexual women fantasize about men they're attracted to "pushing" them to have sex so they can mentally assuage the guilt of having sexual desires by thinking they were made to do it

This is so uncomfortable. Because men will read this and take it as evidence of “she says no but she means yes”.

I know men who are aware of the “why” behind this and that’s exactly what they take it to mean.

Heterosexual women fantasize about men they're attracted to "pushing" them to have sex so they can mentally assuage the guilt of having sexual desires

Yeah I myself have definitely felt this sentiment but it's vastly different than a rape "fantasy". I just feel like not being the initator will absolve some of my guilt around sex.

I can understand women in the 70s and 80s were raised in a different time, but why would young women now still feel guilty about having sex? It's widely considered normal to have sex outside of marriage, except in more conservative churches. In fact, it's gone so far in the other direction that an adult female virgin is considered weird and abnormal by mainstream society. Are there more recent studies showing that large numbers of younger women still have these types of fantasies, or are they all relying on old data?

[–] Lilith 22 points Edited

The other explanation behind fantasies involving force is the widespread sexual trauma in women. if you have been raped or if you've watched forceful porn or even seen content like Game of Thrones which was basically rape porn,, you can develop such a strong fear association with sex it becomes hard to imagine consensual sex.

20% of women have been raped in the US and 81% have been sexually harassed. 88% of porn contain acts of aggression and women are watching more porn. 33% of women watch porn today. All of these influences can reshape a woman's relationship with sex, distorting it towards true self-destructive urges.

This especially rings true when you factor in epigenetics and the theory of the trauma can be passed down through genes

I agree porn is to blame for some of it. But unfortunately women were writing rape fantasies long before porn was mainstream.

I've never been raped, but I don't see why it would be hard to imagine consensual sex. It's still the standard in mainstream media. The average romantic comedy doesn't feature a rapist in the lead role.

I feel women have been encouraged to have more sex without the typical ideas of female 'promiscuity' having been dealt with first: TV and magazines and your libfem friends might insist on your having sex, but men will still consider you a slut. Instead of abolishing the idea of the 'slut' altogether, we now just encourage women to be 'sluts' and reclaim the term. But I don't think most women have embraced that idea. They don't want to be considered sluts. Hence a fantasy like this that 'absolves' them of their own sexual desires. How bleak is that, truly?

You may be on to something with that. Being a "slut" is still considered bad. Maybe some women are still very conditioned to think that their enjoyment of sex makes them "sluts."

why would young women now still feel guilty about having sex?

Young women today are pushed to have sex they don't want, in ways they don't want it. In the old days women were pushed to have sex with their husbands, but now they are pushed to have sex with any guy who wants it. It didn't get better and nobody except feminists want to talk about it. Consent was a serious topic only for a little bit somewhere in the late 2000s, then it got drowned under this new rhetoric of "transphobic genital preference". I wouldn't be surprised at all that young women today struggle with a bombardment of messages about force and sex, and that affects their ideas of sex.

It burns me up how consent as a discussion topic has now turned into "how do I manipulate someone into saying yes so I don't feel bad about my abusive desires" instead of "how do I ensure both of us are genuinely doing only what we sincerely want to do with each other." "Consent is sexy!" they simper. Consent is mandatory and is only real if uncoerced.

why would young women now still feel guilty about having sex?

Purity ring / purity culture/ publicly declared abstinence reached a very defined presence in the 90s-2000s inside evangelical church influence but also in the general public. I'm pretty sure even the Jonas brothers took chastity vows and wore rings or something

Yeah, but that was inside evangelical Christianity. The Jonas Brothers used to be very Christian. Their dad was a pastor and they were raised Assemblies of God.

Now at least one of them gets off on strangling women. We live in a sick world.

In fact, it's gone so far in the other direction that an adult female virgin is considered weird and abnormal by mainstream society.

Yep, and that isn’t new, either, I reached adulthood in the ‘80s and was being told not-so-subtly then that being a virgin was weird.

Someone posted this, from 2009.

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/19085605/

I feel sick. 62% is horrible.

Thanks for the link to the study. It's just so depressing.

That's horrific misinformation for your Psych teacher to be pushing, especially to college age men who I'm sure we all know have been openly confessing that they would engage in "sex without consent if they could get away with it," in surveys for decades. I would complain to the staffing board even if nothing comes from it, because that's literally so horrifying for a man to say in a classroom.

[–] Samhain 12 points Edited

There's actually a short story by Margaret Atwood from the mid-70s called "Rape Fantasies." In it, the main character and her friends talk about the "rape fantasies" they've had, cause a magazine article said all women have them. Thing is, none of the fantasies are really about rape. They're either super romanticized, like "the hot guy from my dream crawled through my bedroom window" or fantasies about stopping an attempted rape through either fighting back or talking the guy out of it.

Male teacher?

He's pushing this because it benefits him. Probably a rapist

How did that even fucking come up in class? I don't trust that there wasn't a bad motive.

According to him he brought it up because he wanted to use as example of how we underestimate actual statistics and how it can actual surprise you like for example despite news coverage during the pandemic the death rate by covid isn't actually as high as we thought if you actual did data.

The eroticisation of inequality is what Sheila Jefferys called it. Three is a great Women's International Declaration where they discuss Kate Millets Sexual Politics which discussed this sort of idea. How it has been inserted into media and normalised. Plus the misogyny that created it, focused very much in how and why women will have internalised it unconsciously.

I too have wondered about this agent of fantasy. I think it is planted by the pornafied society we live in rather than being an inherent part of women's sexuality.

Rape = no consent

No. Women do not fantasize about not giving consent. If they report that they do it’s because they have likely been rapedPreviously and have been sold the malicious idea that they can heal through continued rapes.

I certainly hope it's not true. This is the kind of shit that makes me want to identify out of being female.

To the person who downvoted me, rape is evil. Making excuses for it is evil.

I think it more has to do with the comment you made sounding judgemental towards women who struggle with this. For a lot (probably most) of them these fantasies stem from some kind of trauma. You can recognize the fantasy isn’t mentally healthy and shouldn’t be acted out and that you need trauma to deal with the source of it, but still struggle with having the fantasy. I don’t think the women with this fantasy (who are fantasizing about being raped) are actually thinking rape is okay, they’re traumatized. The real issue lies in the normalization of enacting the fantasy rather than treating it as what it is - a manifestation of trauma.

I get that, but some women who are into this shit have never been abused by anyone and still they promote and defend it, and they encourage men to "fake" rape them in real life.

Anyone who has been sexually abused has my sympathy, and I don't think most women on Ovarit will defend these practices. But I also find it traumatizing. I have seriously considered both suicide and transition due to the fact that men think women just love rape. It's highly, highly triggering to me and more than anything else, it makes me want to dissociate from being female. I shouldn't be downvoted for that.

I think a lot of MEN use this statistic to mean “rape is okay.” Rape is never okay. Even if somehow it was possible for a woman to “want” rape (by definition it is not) and a woman DID, rape is still not okay. It is never okay and the men are the problem. Not the women.

[–] Hollyhock 9 points Edited

I personally don't, but there's also a gray area w/ what is rape fantasy vs. what is "I don't want to admit I want to have sex" fantasy. Even the trashiest romance novels which have so-called rape fantasies follow tropes where the event is resolved to the woman's satisfaction, so if there's any fantasy, it's about a virginal, unsure woman who is forced to marry a rogue duke, who is handsome and is later found to be nice to babies and puppies. She has 'surprise' orgasms and wants to have sex w/ him again despite being violated, and it feeds on her guilty about it. While technically this is rape because the story shows how she originally didn't consent, her unease turns to desire and then love, so her consent is resolved.

These fantasies in the romance trope allow women who may have repressive situations (like unhappy marriages, strict families, restrictive cultures, guilt, shame) to enjoy guilt-free sex because the choice is ostensibly removed from them. There used to be a time, and still is for many women, when good girls only ever say no. A romance 'rape' allows women to say yes when they are supposed to say no.

I don't see those as actual rape fantasies.

Not this one. At this point I prefer multiple check ins from a partner asking me if something is ok. Or I prefer being the aggressor myself. I don’t trust men to respect my boundaries or read my cues anymore. They’re just horrible at it.

seeing as how over 50% of us have been victims of sa, I highly doubt it.

repetition compulsion in trauma comes up a lot for rape victims, to the point where predators flock to forums for SA victims and encourage them to engage in rape kinks.

that's so disheartening.

It is. I want people to be aware and informed about the predators targeting rape victims though. Getting out of DV or rape is not the time to be entertaining any male's interests. It's the time to batten down the house, preemptively block private messaging, etc.

It can be a (maladaptive) coping mechanism. What people say to defend CNC kink definitely is true… but it doesn’t mean it’s mentally healthy or okay for it to be acted out (like why is the man okay with playing it out?). Identifying with it as a kink makes it less likely the person will get therapy to address the source trauma or issue that it’s stemming from.

[–] Julie92845 11 points Edited

Those aren't mutually exclusive. I've had rape fantasies (and used to be into BDSM) but also have been sexually assaulted. A fantasy is an entirely different experience from the real thing, even if it's still unhealthy.

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