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DiscussionWhat did men teach you about men that you wish you didn't know?
I mean, I guess I'm glad I know all these things, but the education was so harmful, so discouraging, so scary. I was making a list today, and these are the things men who were in my life taught me about men that I wish I didn't know, or rather, that I wish were not true. Add you own in the comments!
I learned that love and sex have almost no connection for men. For many men, "I love you" merely means "I want to have sex with your body." And then most men experience a cognitive affective shift after sex that means they are less interested in you after they've marked you by having sex with your body.
I learned that men are capable of forcing you into sex. Men are also capable of using violence against you. And they can do these things while claiming to "love" you. In fact, the violence of dominance sexually arouses them.
I learned that men's minds and hearts are always laser-focused on other men. Status among male peers is what men crave most of all. To gain that status (or not to lose what status they have), men are fully prepared to throw women under the bus, even women they "love."
I learned that you will always be a woman to a man, and you can never be a friend or an equal. I learned they will pay far less attention to what you say than what any man--literally some bum off the street--says.
I learned that if you try to emulate men or stand up for men, that does not bring you men's respect. Handmaidens are always just that, a member of the servant class.
I learned that expecting reciprocity from a man is like expecting blood from a turnip. Reciprocity is reserved for other men.
I learned that men are fully invested in the double standard, and believe the legal system exists to provide impunity for any crimes men commit against women.
They outsource the necessity for remembering many things--sometimes very important things--to the women in their lives. I think this accounts entirely for the higher number of male 'geniuses.' Men offload distractions to women and laser focus on what interests them.
My two cents:
The compartmentalization is the scariest to me. :( I experienced this in two back to back relationships. The guys were literally entirely different people behind my back.
They put you in a box, and think as long as they behave when they're in the wife/girlfriend box, that that makes them good people. But when they're in literally any other box, you don't even exist to them. Hence why my exes were able to have raging porn addictions, other girlfriends, and tons of other lies and not feel the slightest ounce of guilt about it.
I think this feature alone is the root of men's depravity. Because it lets them blend in and it also explains why they see nothing wrong with their behavior.
Re: your point about male sexuality - spot on. In this light it's even more insane that it's women's sexuality that is so highly controlled. We don't have the same kind of proclivities as men and are much, much less likely to cause anyone harm sexually (and otherwise). Men on the other hand? Yeah...
You’ll never see passion like a man defending the reputation of a man he’s never met
Yes! I've seen males jump through fire to protect a man accused of being a rapist or God forbid gay! faints 'Oh, she's lying for attention!' She's just bitter that he moved on and now wants to destroy his reputation!' 'He can't be gay, he's married!' The only time I don't see males go to bat for another male is when it comes to pedophilia accusations.That's because I think some of them are afraid of outing themselves, so distance themselves as much as possible from the perpetrators. Not only is it illegal and highly immoral, but it negatively effects on their status, unlike adult rape and murder. I don't believe all males are pedos, but unlike women who morally object to it, for many males It's merely a concern of taste. It's not their cup of tea, so they have no issues chastising. Sadly, that's how the male human thinks.
The literal only thing keeping many adult men from having sex with little girls (rape) is the potential they'd get in trouble.
Even then, that doesn't stop a lot of them. If men knew for certain that they could rape a child knowing they would never, ever get caught, I think more men than one would realize would do it. Not to mention animals. This makes me think about how one of the most popular porn categories are incest and pedophilia-adjacent content. And we all know they like sticking their genitals in foreign objects in private.
When I fully realized the amount of men who would rape children...it is staggering and blackpilling.
The amount of men that hit on me and also groomed me when I was a very young child is so fucking sick. It makes me so angry to think about, how all these fucking sick fucks got away with that. In person and online. They knew my age and did not care. In most cases, it actually turned them on to know I was a middle schooler. Some asked to meet with me in person, at a hotel, and I am so glad I never did so. The things I had said to me... The way I was basically made to hate my fucking body because so many men are pedophiles. I wanted to rip my skin off.
I want to see the results of a study that asked men if they’d try legal sex with an AI silicone robot little girl. I think it would be a good way to figure out the true percentage of men with pedophilic tendencies.
I also can’t wait for the brain-dead liberal takes on this stuff when it inevitably hits the market.
Many of them view the women they love as a form of a utility, like electricity or gas--dear maybe, but replaceable. If they lose one, the first order of business is to get service restored quickly.
I think all of these separate things can be boiled down to the fact that men and women are living in completely different worlds that are only the same on the surface, and while I’m glad I’ve realized this, so I can’t say I wish I didn’t know - in fact, I wish I’d realized it much, MUCH sooner - I wish it weren’t true.
That said, the world women live in, for all the shit and oppression we deal with, is much nicer and more fulfilling, so I’m grateful to be female every day.
I agree with this--I wish I'd known these things sooner and I also wish it weren't true.
That men naturally react with hostility towards women they don't find attractive, so they have a natural inclination to treat women that they don't want to fuck poorly. Also that men's reward centers in their brains are triggered when they make people angry, which means they're biologically hardwired for conflict and it makes them happy
I think this one goes beyond hostility. Most of them literally do not see women they don't find sexually attractive. This is how you get TIMs who think that "becoming a woman" will automatically make them beautiful.
Unfortunately, as an unattractive woman, they definitely do see us. They may not consider us for basic human interactions but they will definitely go out of their way to be shitty to us
I've had strange men
Give me hateful unflinching death stares and then cuss random shit at me when I ask what's up
Follow me and ask me in a hostile way why I'm dressed like a man (then when the guy they didn't know I was with comes up and gets shitty back they apologize TO HIM)
Come up behind me and scream
Scream at me out of their cars
Men have screamed "bitch" at me in passing multiple times
A black dude followed me across the parking lot and screamed "HEY BRO HEY BRO" trying to get a reaction out of me
Men multiple times have gotten right behind me at the self checkout and breathed down my neck instead of staying in line
I've been shoulder checked more times than I can count. And it's not accidental. I'll be like "what's this dude glaring at" and before I know it he's walking right into me. Sometimes they do it with their girlfriend right there with them!
And also TIMs pester me literally all the fucking time
I have gotten unsolicited hostile attention from men far more times than I've ever been approached as a romantic interest. It's not even a comparison. This is why men literally cannot scare me with "the wall" bullshit. I'm looking forward to just being perceived as old, I believe it will drastically reduce the hostility I get for choosing to be ugly at men
They don't "not see us." It would be really great if that was the case, especially for me
How they treated Susan Boyle was a big eye opener to me in that regard. Unattractive males don't get anywhere near the amount of vitriol that 'Unattractive' women do. Males are allowed to be ugly and just exist.
'This is how you get TIMs who think that "becoming a woman" will automatically make them beautiful.'
Oh, that's a lightbulb moment for me.... Of course. By their definition, if they're 'women' they're - well maybe not beautiful, but automatically sexually arousing to all men.
That's right - it's less beautiful and more sexually desirable. They really believe any woman can have any man because of their unwillingness to see women they don't want to fuck. They just want easy acceptance and ironically look at the world and see a version where women get it (because to a LOT of men, acceptance means sexual acceptance).
Many "rational" men will use every logical fallacy to defend their sexual interests (porn, prostitution, etc.).
And spend their entire careers getting into positions to defend it and act upon it.
They're our predators, our #1 danger in the world, men rarely "protect" us adequately even when they try because a legion of other men will socially overpower them defending their own, minority men constantly steal attention money and attention away from minority women and children, men are attracted to children (or are incredibly easy to convince that early-pubescent children are sexy), men are responsible for advertising which sickens me, "men make hate to women," men will reach old age and have no emotional maturity and not even know it (whereas many older women at least try having self-awareness of their issues), men rape their family members at an alarming rate, mentally disabled and geriatric men assault nurses and family and strangers at alarming rates, men commit crime oogles more often than women across the board globally therefore it is logical to be wary of them, men have created vast empires exerting complete dominion over women and women have NEVER done the same thing back, in early human history the position of scholar (responsible for creating language and writing) was unisex until men expelled women from specialized, "noble-class" fields and they repeated doing this across all industries without relent until approximately year 1900-1960.
I learned that love and sex have almost no connection for men.
The MRA line that women who are sexually promiscuous lose their ability to "pair bond" is pure projection.
Also their line about women hitting the "wall". Pure projection and cope and seethe. I've seen so many males balding and aging rapidly before they've even hit 20. Then they also expect pure virginal 18 year olds with "perfect bodies", when the men themselves are unkempt, morbidly obese, and complete losers that spent their 20s and 30s watching porn and/or sleeping around.
I've always loved the MRA line that the flat adolescent stomach is somehow a symptom of fertility. Like, 10% of us are naturally infertile - the most attractive sign of fertility should be saggy belly skin and obvious previous successful pregnancy.
Ew! That's such a gross line. I literally yelled out "WHAT THE FUCK! When I read it lol. It's funny, because a healthy amount of body fat is good for fertility. Female gymnast and bodybuilders can struggle with fertility and lose their periods if they overwork themselves, or don't intake enough calories. It's called “female athlete triad or Relative Energy Deficiency in Sport (RED-S)", if anyone's interested in researching it. Female body builders' fat body percentage can go as low as 10%. Meanwhile, males can go as low as 2%. Neither is healthy, but below around 13% can kill women, as our bodily functions need more body fat to maintain itself. Our bodies are not meant to be that lean.
Exactly. And trying to be maintain an underweight status to achieve that look for male desirability puts us in a semi-starvation state which literally handicaps us. It reduces our ability to move and think when we are in that state.
(Isobel is my favorite name)
Thanks! My username is in reference to the song 'Isobel', by the Icelandic singer Björk.
They do not live in the real world. Most people do not look approvingly on relationships where a much older man got together with a woman under 25 or so. They automatically assume grooming and/or it's transactional.
Then they also expect pure virginal 18 year olds
The funny thing about expecting a much younger virgin is, their best bet would be a conservative church. But I'm willing to bet these guys don't go to church. And even if they turned up at one and started sniffing around for virgin brides, what Christian girls are going to want a middle-aged guy with tons of sexual baggage? I have my problems with Christianity, but I'd guess that even conservative Christian parents would think twice before giving such a union their blessing.
To be honest, I think at least some of these men are just frustrated that they don't have access to the type of women they want, so they invent scenarios where they're rejecting women who aren't good enough for them. Kind of like when men fantasize about rejecting Taylor Swift because she's dried-up hag of 35 with no eggs left.
And than they get bored with the 'pure virginal Christian girl' because she doesn't want to do all the stuff he sees in porn. He will call her a boring prude and cheat on her with a woman with a high body count. The very same women they call washed up loose whores and, who no male would want to marry. Look up the marriage of Riley Reid the porn actress and see all the moids mald in the comments. To them, Riley was supposed to die alone and miserable, but here she is, married with a child. Moids have this weird 'Madonna whore complex' they want their cake and eat it too.
Yep. The only time men have a problem with porn is the rare instances when women have enough business savvy and good luck to turn it into real wealth and stability. They don't want women to be able to escape porn. They want a class of irredeemable women that they can both abuse and scapegoat.
Men can feel tremendous warmth, interest and engagement without feeling any sense of personal attachment or desire to prolong the connection.
Tell me more . . .
The connection is not to a specific woman or person but to "woman" or "people." The warmth comes from their internal sense of continuity from woman to woman or social experience to social experience. It's like a pool they dip into and dip back out of again. The continuity is in themselves only, though they do not feel it that way.
As a young woman, I was often puzzled by the tendency of men I hooked up with to think they knew things about me and to sort of script a personality for me (frequently wrong), and I think this is at the bottom of it. They have an idea of "woman" and they plug all the women they engage with into that idea, like they were casting a role or dressing a doll. Then, even though you are a completely different woman than the one they engaged with last time, they approach you with the same sense of warmth and familiarity.
Gay men do this too. And granted, most of the gay men I know are of a certain generation, but I used to marvel at the immediate yet impersonal intimacy of the gay dance club experience. The point was to go lose yourself in "man/men." Individual men you interacted with in this scene were just a part of "man/men." There was this huge, throbbing (forgive the adjectives) sense of connection and enmeshment that could be wholly impersonal but felt very personal in the moment.
I spent a lot of time studying men, charming ones in particular, because I wanted a character in a book I was writing to be as realistic as possible. If I had been born a man, I think this is the particular evil I could have fallen into--a love for "anima"--the idea that woman is a welcoming pool you can always dip into and enjoy, whether or not you've bothered to build and maintain relationships with specific women. This also explains men's shock when they age and young women become less willing to fill this role.
I just wanted to come back and say how much I enjoyed this post, WatcherattheGates. I don't mean enjoyed as in laughter, hijinks and fun, of course! Just that it was satisfying to see your great initial summary, then all these insights coming together in one place from all these different women. This post was really an example of Ovarit at its best, IMO.
Yes, I have actually archived that page because the comments were so amazing! It was Ovarit at its best, you are so right about that! I am going to really, really miss the chance to pick the brains of the amazing women on this site!